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1000ft. from K-12 School

nova

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At the May VCDL meeting in NoVA it was briefly mentioned thatpeople OCing could possibly be arrested and charged for carrying a loaded firearm within 1000ft of a K-12 school. I also remember hearing that CHP holders are exempt.

Well, I do not have (and cannot get for another 2 years) a CHP so I was just curious about this law as I often drive on roads that are well within 1000ft from schools, and I don't want to be arrested if I'm OCing. I would also like to know how this law is even legal seeing that it prohibits people from excercising their rights on public property (the land that is not "school property" ). If a person is not on "school property" I can't see how they can prohibit us from carrying. 1000ft is a long distance as well, a few football fields in length :what:
 

Thundar

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Federal law that was struck down by Supreme Court. It was re-enacted by congress, with an interstate commerce clause, but to the best of my knowledge has never been invoked. Used as a tactic by imperialist thugs to try and scare citizens into not carrying firearms.

About as enforceable as the law against eating tomatoes on Sunday.
 

ODA 226

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Thundar wrote:
About as enforceable as the law against eating tomatoes on Sunday.
Well there is a law on the books in Virginia that prohibits the buying and selling of toilet paper on Sunday....and there's another that prohibits kissing your wife in public on Sunday... ;)
 

hsmith

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Text is below of the amended law:

Code:
revised Gun Free School Zones Act, enacted September 30, 1996.

Text of Conference Report on H.R. 3610
CONFERENCE REPORT ON H.R. 3610 
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1997 
[CR page H-11743]

Sec. 657. Section 922(q) of title 18, United States Code, is
amended to read as follows:

"(q)(1) The Congress finds and declares that--

"(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a
pervasive, nationwide problem;

"(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate
movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;

"(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate
commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around
schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee
on the Judiciary the House of Representatives and the Committee on
the Judiciary of the Senate;

"(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its
component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they
are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;

"(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary
citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through
certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and
gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to
school for the same reason;

"(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has
resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;

"(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse
impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the
United States;

"(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost
impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves--even States,
localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to
prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts
unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States
or localities to take strong measures; and

"(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce
clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures
to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by
enactment of this subsection.

"(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

"(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm--

"(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

"(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to
do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under
law to receive the license;

"(iii) that is--

"(I) not loaded; and

"(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;

"(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a
school in the school zone;

"(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered
into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;

"(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her
official capacity; or

"(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual
while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access
to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
premises is authorized by school authorities.

"(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be
unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for
the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a
firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or
foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.

"(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a
firearm--

"(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

"(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school
zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

"(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered
into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual; or

"(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her
official capacity.

"(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as
preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting
a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this
subsection.".

Says nothing about 1000 feet of a "school zone".
 

hsmith

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I can't find anything defining school zones either... Maybe someone better at scouring code can.

Me (possibly) living within a 1000 feet of a "school zone" would mean that i can't even own firearms in my abode!
 

roscoe13

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hsmith wrote:
I can't find anything defining school zones either... Maybe someone better at scouring code can.

Me (possibly) living within a 1000 feet of a "school zone" would mean that i can't even own firearms in my abode!
As I recall, even in the struck down version, there was an exemption for possession on your own property. See B (i) above...
 

hsmith

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roscoe13 wrote:
As I recall, even in the struck down version, there was an exemption for possession on your own property. See B (i) above...
Blah sometimes I can't even read

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

So, as long as you avoid sidewalks "on school property" I would assume you are fine?
 

LEO 229

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http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-282

§ 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.

C. For purposes of this section, the word "firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material. The word "ammunition," as used herein, shall mean a cartridge, pellet, ball, missile or projectile adapted for use in a firearm.
 

ed

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LEO 229 wrote:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-282

§ 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.

C. For purposes of this section, the word "firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material. The word "ammunition," as used herein, shall mean a cartridge, pellet, ball, missile or projectile adapted for use in a firearm.
So.. walkin by with it in your holster would be just fine?
 

LEO 229

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ed wrote:
So.. walkin by with it in your holster would be just fine?
This is the only code I know of where you can get in trouble off school property.

Walking by while you OC would not be a violation that I am aware of.
 

CRF250rider1000

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Whew! That means I can actually drive by the school with no CHP and not get arrested :lol: Saves me from driving the long route if I were to be OCing for any reason and driving by a school. Also good knowing that going to a building accross the street and OCing would be fine also.
 

Citizen

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CRF250rider1000 wrote:
Whew! That means I can actually drive by the school with no CHP and not get arrested :lol: Saves me from driving the long route if I were to be OCing for any reason and driving by a school. Also good knowing that going to a building accross the street and OCing would be fine also.

You did read the rest of the thread, particularly the part about the federal law against firearms within 1000' of school property? Having a license issued by the state in which the school is located?

You can be your rent there is an even chance somebody will call 911 yelling, "Man with gun in front of school!"

I would not want to be the test case on the federal law.
 

nova

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Going by the confusion in this thread makes me feel better that I'm not the only one! :D

So if I understand correctly it is a class 6 felony to OC within 1000 feet of "school property" if I do not have a VA CHP.

If that's the case it sounds like another national parks situation, where you can be driving along and instantly become a felon even though the property is not marked as being prohibited. Gotta love it :banghead:


forgot to add, thank you to whoever changed the thread description to something more useful than the "..." I put in :cool:
 

LEO 229

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nova wrote:
Snipped...


forgot to add, thank you to whoever changed the thread description to something more useful than the "..." I put in :cool:
You are welcome. ;)
 

hsmith

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Citizen wrote:
The Code quoted above left out the section on "definitions".

See: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf For some reason I can't link to .pdf's, so you'll have to type it in. The part about 1000' is covered in the definitions at the bottom of the page.

I would not want to be a test case.
But B.i doesn't apply to the "school zone" it applies directly to the school grounds. So if you are standing across the street OC'ing your firearm you are not violating the Federal Law.

Even the state law which LEO posted covers brandishing, so it doesn't apply in this case, even though it does give the "1000ft" rule
 

hsmith

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LEO 229 wrote:
ed wrote:
So.. walkin by with it in your holster would be just fine?
This is the only code I know of where you can get in trouble off school property.

Walking by while you OC would not be a violation that I am aware of.
if you are brandishing and waving it around like a mad man
 

LEO 229

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hsmith wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
ed wrote:
So.. walkin by with it in your holster would be just fine?
This is the only code I know of where you can get in trouble off school property.

Walking by while you OC would not be a violation that I am aware of.
if you are brandishing and waving it around like a mad man
Then yes... if you did it within 1000 feet of the school you are now committing a class 6 felony.
 

hsmith

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LEO 229 wrote:
Then yes... if you did it within 1000 feet of the school you are now committing a class 6 felony.
While interpreting the letter of the law you are fine OC'ing off school property, all you would need is an overzealous noob LEO to arrest you for it to poop over your day. (And no, for those that will say it is anti-LEO, most wouldn't).

I think the Federal and state laws, while clear and permissive of OC, create a bad situation for those that OC or CC.
 

LEO 229

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hsmith wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Then yes... if you did it within 1000 feet of the school you are now committing a class 6 felony.
While interpreting the letter of the law you are fine OC'ing off school property, all you would need is an overzealous noob LEO to arrest you for it to poop over your day. (And no, for those that will say it is anti-LEO, most wouldn't).

I think the Federal and state laws, while clear and permissive of OC, create a bad situation for those that OC or CC.
He would have to believe that OCing is brandishing. Not that it has not been tried, right? :D
 
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