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    I work in LE and I have my concerns about not being able to stop and talk and ID a person walking around with a gun on their side. However, I think every one has a right to carry. I was reading another thread where they talked about how dispatch should respond to a man with a gun at walmart call. I am a dispatcher and as of yet havent gotten my CPL. I do OC from my house over to the local gas station across the street. Just to try it out. I also know the Gas station oxners and they didnt even look twice at me carrying. However, I got a few looks from other people walking in and out.

    But my question is. Private property owners can restrict the carrying of a weapon? So using your example of how to respond to someone calling from walmart about an armed man shopping. How am I to know wether Walmart has banned the carrying of a weapon on their property? I would like to OC but again because of where I work I know I am ok in some areas but could find myself haveing to deal with charges thatr wont stick which could definately cause me to have an unneeded talk or two with my Capt or chief lol.

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    teamreddog wrote:
    I work in LE and I have my concerns about not being able to stop and talk and ID a person walking around with a gun on their side. However, I think every one has a right to carry. I was reading another thread where they talked about how dispatch should respond to a man with a gun at walmart call. I am a dispatcher and as of yet havent gotten my CPL. I do OC from my house over to the local gas station across the street. Just to try it out. I also know the Gas station oxners and they didnt even look twice at me carrying. However, I got a few looks from other people walking in and out.

    But my question is. Private property owners can restrict the carrying of a weapon? So using your example of how to respond to someone calling from walmart about an armed man shopping. How am I to know wether Walmart has banned the carrying of a weapon on their property? I would like to OC but again because of where I work I know I am ok in some areas but could find myself haveing to deal with charges thatr wont stick which could definately cause me to have an unneeded talk or two with my Capt or chief lol.
    Welcome to OCDO: If you look at some of the threads, there are many examples of carry on private property. Basicly it's ok unless the property owner asks you to leave. Then you must leave or face trespass charges at the most. There is no firearms violation. As I have posted in the past, I always ask the store/business, owner or manager for permission to carry (OC or CC)in their business. If they say ok, no problem. If the answer is no, I go put my gun in my truck. Given your employment, I would say this would work as well for you. You can't be cited for anything if you have permission to be there.

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    As Jerry has said, it they ask you to leave, then you leave. If you don't leave after being asked to do so, it then becomes trespassing.

    Also if you'd been reading on this board, you'd have by now noticed that Wal-Mart has a policy of mirroring state law, which means it isn't against thier policy to OC in thier stores if OC is legal. That means that if an manager still asks you to leave, they are doing so because of thier own policy and not the companies. In such a case it would still be prudent to leave, but then contact corporate afterwords to complain about a manager who implements his own policy in contradiction with the company's.

    Furthermore, here is somthing I have concerns about:
    I work in LE and I have my concerns about not being able to stop and talk and ID a person walking around with a gun on their side.
    I don't know what sort of knowledge is required of a dispatcher, but an officer may talk to anyone who is willing to engage in a conversation with him/her. If you are talking about actually detainging a person for just the act of "walking around with a gun on their side", then you might review the requirements of "reasonable suspicion" for such.



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    teamreddog: Are you a uniformed officer or a civil employee in the position of a dispatcher? You may not answer if you don't wish to but my future comments will depend upon your job position.

    Thanks, Jerry

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    I have a 4 year degree in public safety. I understand Terry stop laws. I was speaking praticalities. I am 100 percent for the right to be able to OC. I am against a lot of the CCW laws because I feel it is just a money maker for the state. Now they allow my MCOLES certified firearms class I had in college but when the law first came out they did not. Nor can I be printed at my department where it is free. SO now I am looking at having to take a class, pay precessing fees ect. I havent got my cpl because of principal only at this stage. Thats why I choose to open carry. However, knowing the public and the people I deal with on a regular basis. I dont think it is unreasonable to stop ID a person and ask for their green card for their pistol just to ease the publics concern and for the safety of the officer to disarm the person only while a quick check is done. I know a lot of you seem to be against that. I however, believe the coruanna chief of police to be way out of line. I think the MSP troopers handled the situation well. I guess maybe being that I see both sides of it I feel there is a happy medium. I would not at all be upset if I was detained for 15 minutes while the officer checked out me and that my gun was legal.

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    WARCHILD wrote:
    teamreddog: Are you a uniformed officer or a civil employee in the position of a dispatcher? You may not answer if you don't wish to but my future comments will depend upon your job position.

    Thanks, Jerry
    Jerry,

    I am a civilian employee in the position of a dispatcher. However I have a 4 year degree from a university where most of my senior year was MCOLES certified classes. I soon will be going to an academy when I am financially able to do so.

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    Thanks for your answer. I guess my basic concern is the first line in your post. If you are not yet an officer, why would you Terry stop anybody? If your concern is for later after you finish the academy, I can understand youwondering about it. I don't mean to offend you, I was just trying to understand your position and reasoning. Good luck with the academy, I hope you make it through and become an LEO.

    As for the chief, I really didn't mind being challenged. Had I a problem with it, I most definately would not have stayed there forover an hour. After seeing the chief the second time, I now believe he was just trying to see if he was dealing with a hot-head. He doesn't like people to oc and lets it be known. That's not going to change.

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    No problem. I wouldnt personaly terry stop anyone...I have no authority to. I do howerver field the calls from individuals that are freaked out because someone is walking around with a gun on their side. Much like the kids that you covered your pistol for at home depot. I feel I would be lacking in my duties to not dispatch the same call out to my officers. Or after i become a LEO to not check out a man with a gun call. Like I said I dont think you should violate anyones rights and i understand the officer can stop have a conversation with and voulentarily ask you for his safety to take posession of your firearm. I think the way you relayed your actions at home depot is exactly how I would think most law abiding citizens including myself would and should react in the same situation. (even though you had to deal with an ahole chief) I also ask because even though I am only a dispatcher we have these conversations at work and we all rely on eachother and eachothers inputs for all types of calls that go out. Starting with the person that fields the call all the way to the supervisor that may also have to wind up responding. I was also asking for myself as I do choose to OC occasionally. Even though I am a civilian and not an officer I still fall under the same contract and rules and regulations as an officer does. So even being charged with a misdmeanor I am subject to displinary action at work. ranging from conduct unbecoming (even off duty) to well a whole laundry list just for being charged not convicted. Which could lead upto and including termination. So i would volunteer to be as co-operative as needed in my situation. I guess thats where my original question was leading about Wal-Mart. There is one in my jurisdiction and is one of the places I might consider OCing if the opertunity arises.

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    teamreddog wrote:
    No problem. I wouldnt personaly terry stop anyone...I have no authority to. I do howerver field the calls from individuals that are freaked out because someone is walking around with a gun on their side. Much like the kids that you covered your pistol for at home depot. I feel I would be lacking in my duties to not dispatch the same call out to my officers. Or after i become a LEO to not check out a man with a gun call. Like I said I dont think you should violate anyones rights and i understand the officer can stop have a conversation with and voulentarily ask you for his safety to take posession of your firearm. ......................snip
    Would you mind telling me just how you believe the officer taking possession of the firearm makes anyone safer standing out in public?

    In my mind, any unnecessary handling of a loaded firearm is less safe then leaving it alone. This "officer safety" claim seems like another feel good excuse to hassle a law abiding citizen.



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    That's only their claim (given the officer's attitude) for a reason to disarm you. I had some fun with a local officer I know. Once he asked if he could see my gun, of course I said sure--- "I'll show you mine, if you show me your's". He knew I was kidding and just said never mind. I like good encounters like that. Makes it all fun.

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    You have a right to your opinion. I would if stopped and talked to offer my registration and pistol to the officer if he asked for it. I would also inform him wether it was loaded. Thats me. I believe as open carry becomes more common place this wont be an issue. but until then I can see a small inconvience by myself to better educate the people, keep calm heads, and bring down the adrenaline factor as not a big deal. But again thats my opinion and how I would handle it if approached.

    When ever I pass a pistol over to a friend to look at or to shoot at a range ect. I unholster unload and decock it. I understand your concern of transfering a loaded weapon. Nor do i want to get into a debate on wether transfering a pistol to a person trained in the use and handling of a gun would be safe in public. However if asked to see it and check the serial against my inspection card I would thats all I was getting at.

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    What you would do if asked or stopped is not the question.

    How do you think it makes anyone or anything safer?

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    "In certain circumstances, a law enforcement officer may take temporary possession of the weapon during interaction with the individual to ensure the safety of the officer and others. The police officer will return the pistol at the end of the stop unless the individual is being charged with a violation of the act or any other law that allows for the weapon to be seized."

    Thats quoted from MSP site on CCW I feel open carry would fall under the same. If he felt he wanted to see it for eberyones safety. I feel it would be best to let him. To deescalte any encounter. Again thats my opinion



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    I agree that it is the law.

    The issue of officer saftey is mentioned.

    HOW is it safer?

    I really don't understand that part.

    Is it because it has been said over & over all your life & a cop told you it was true?

    Does it somehow enhance officer safety?



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    Just so you'll know. There is no registration in Michigan, and people are not required to carry a green card with them. Unless, maybe it relates to reisident or alien status.

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    teamreddog wrote:
    But my question is. Private property owners can restrict the carrying of a weapon? So using your example of how to respond to someone calling from walmart about an armed man shopping. How am I to know wether Walmart has banned the carrying of a weapon on their property?
    You don't, but you have no reason to believe they have unless you get a call from a manager or owner requesting that an officer remove a trespasser. What if someone calls you and is worried because there is a black man in the store? You tell them that if they are acting peacefully than there is no crime taking place and ask them to call back if anyone becomes violent or threatening.

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    teamreddog wrote:
    I However, I think every one has a right to carry. I was reading another thread where they talked about how dispatch should respond to a man with a gun at walmart call. I am a dispatcher and as of yet havent gotten my CPL. I do OC from my house over to the local gas station across the street. Just to try it out. I also know the Gas station oxners and they didnt even look twice at me carrying. However, I got a few looks from other people walking in and out.

    But my question is. Private property owners can restrict the carrying of a weapon? So using your example of how to respond to someone calling from walmart about an armed man shopping. How am I to know wether Walmart has banned the carrying of a weapon on their property? I would like to OC but again because of where I work I know I am ok in some areas but could find myself haveing to deal with charges thatr wont stick which could definately cause me to have an unneeded talk or two with my Capt or chief lol.
    Being new to the forum and reading this from a new poster I am almost afraid to comment here. It appears to me this person has his or her own ideas of what is an acceptable unconvinced. I also see that he says he is only a dispatcher. So sorry if I offend you but he is way down on the food chain. He will dispatch calls however his superiors request him to. I noticed he said he is for Open Carry and I think a lot of you skipped right over that. His main reason for this post seems to be that he wants to join the open carry movement. His question seemed pertinent to me.He wants to CYA his own rear. I would give him a lot of credit for open carrying with the risks he will take at work. I know it is never good to find yourself having a discussion in the brasses office even if you are completely right.



    Now to answer your question; from what I have read you are safe on most private property until you are asked to leave. It might be a good idea to check with management to see what their opinion is. I would suggest getting your CPL. It will eliminate a lot of head aches as far as transporting goes.



    Welcome to the freedom of open carry. Stay armed and stay safe.

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    teamreddog wrote:
    I work in LE and I have my concerns about not being able to stop and talk and ID a person walking around with a gun on their side. However, I think every one has a right to carry. I was reading another thread where they talked about how dispatch should respond to a man with a gun at walmart call. I am a dispatcher and as of yet havent gotten my CPL. I do OC from my house over to the local gas station across the street. Just to try it out. I also know the Gas station oxners and they didnt even look twice at me carrying. However, I got a few looks from other people walking in and out.

    But my question is. Private property owners can restrict the carrying of a weapon? So using your example of how to respond to someone calling from walmart about an armed man shopping. How am I to know wether Walmart has banned the carrying of a weapon on their property? I would like to OC but again because of where I work I know I am ok in some areas but could find myself haveing to deal with charges thatr wont stick which could definately cause me to have an unneeded talk or two with my Capt or chief lol.
    Yes, it is their right.


    How/why would anycitizen who frequents that station know that you know the gas station owner(s) and not make a "man with a gun" call?


    I would not OC for one second if I thought my job may be on the line doing so. Legal or not, right or wrong-unless you have other job opportunities that will pay the bills-it is not worth it.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:

    I would not OC for one second if I thought my job may be on the line doing so. Legal or not, right or wrong-unless you have other job opportunities that will pay the bills-it is not worth it.
    I agree with the above... Not to menton you want to be a LEO in the future. On your application for LEO job they will ask for any contact with police... So you put down was OC and police were called, no charges or anything .. Look at the LEO posts and a lot are against/ uneducated about OC. Thus you could havejust "shot yourself in the foot" of getting a job at given department...

    In your case, spend the money and get a CPL...

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    Thanks for the replys everyone. For now I think I am going to limit my open carry to my property. Events like the gear grinders car show ect. In July or august I will probably get my CPL.

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    teamreddog wrote:
    Thanks for the replys everyone. For now I think I am going to limit my open carry to my property. Events like the gear grinders car show ect. In July or august I will probably get my CPL.
    As we talked about the other day, when you are more confident and have your cpl, you will carry without worry of harming your career position.

    To the forum: I talked to teamreddog for over an hour. He presents himself to think much along the same lines as myself and others. But as I have done many times,his questions may appear to come offin the wrong direction in an attempt to get a point made or a question answered. That's why I asked him about his job position, to get his train of thought and reasoning on his comments. He has valid concerns and questions given his position.

    just my .02

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    Leader,

    In any situation...especially when called to a man with a gun call. Adrenaline is increased. Adrenaline produces a fight or flight response. Now this same reaction happens to most people that are also approached by an LEO. You now have two groups of individuals that are wired on adrenaline. The officer being in possesion of the gun could defuse the situation some. It makes sure no mistakes are made. He will not be on edge and thinking that if force needs to be used (for what ever reason) you are also armed and can respond with deadly force. If it defuses the situation it now has made it more safe. To me it is just a mere inconvince to have to let the officer see my weapon. An example: Some people gesture with their hands when they talk. If you have let the LEO temp. take possesion of your gun then he wont have to determin if that was a gesture you were making or if it was a movement toward your gun.

    I know you could counter with 1000 what if's That could make transfering a loaded weapon fropm one person to another "less safe" than not handing it over if the LEO asks.
    Again that my opinion on it as to why it is safer for the officer and the individual involved. I am sure there are differing opinions.

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    Warchild, Thanks...Yes I do sometimes stick my keyboard in my mouth by accident because I am one of those that uses tone and gestures in verbal language to make my point. It always doesnt come across the same way when I type it out lol. I will admit working in LE with the intent to go on to the academy I probably lean towards backing an LEO on what I feel is a reasonable stop and talk. Again as I have said before I do not believe the chief of courunna that first day was reasonable. Sounds like he was on the second encounter though. For now the open carry movement is small (growing) Small enough that it isnt commonly seen and people react to it. As the movement grows this reaction will deminish. I think the pioneers of the movment should be applauded because it wont be easy. They are the ones that are going to have to put up with small inconviences, keep a calm head, and lead by example. Its never easy in the begining.

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    teamreddog wrote:
    I have a 4 year degree in public safety. I understand Terry stop laws. I was speaking praticalities. I am 100 percent for the right to be able to OC. I am against a lot of the CCW laws because I feel it is just a money maker for the state. Now they allow my MCOLES certified firearms class I had in college but when the law first came out they did not. Nor can I be printed at my department where it is free. SO now I am looking at having to take a class, pay precessing fees ect. I havent got my cpl because of principal only at this stage. Thats why I choose to open carry. However, knowing the public and the people I deal with on a regular basis. I dont think it is unreasonable to stop ID a person and ask for their green card for their pistol just to ease the publics concern and for the safety of the officer to disarm the person only while a quick check is done. I know a lot of you seem to be against that. I however, believe the coruanna chief of police to be way out of line. I think the MSP troopers handled the situation well. I guess maybe being that I see both sides of it I feel there is a happy medium. I would not at all be upset if I was detained for 15 minutes while the officer checked out me and that my gun was legal.
    The police have no right to stop a law abiding person and ask for ID. The fact that they have a gun does not give the officer the right to as for ID or detain anyone for lawful open carry. It would be the same as someonewalking down the street wearing a green T-shirt and getting stopped by the police and asked for ID. That person would not have to give ID. It's really about personal freedoms that we are quickly losing to a increasing police state.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    teamreddog wrote:
    Leader,

    In any situation...especially when called to a man with a gun call. Adrenaline is increased. Adrenaline produces a fight or flight response. Now this same reaction happens to most people that are also approached by an LEO. You now have two groups of individuals that are wired on adrenaline. The officer being in possesion of the gun could defuse the situation some. It makes sure no mistakes are made. He will not be on edge and thinking that if force needs to be used (for what ever reason) you are also armed and can respond with deadly force. If it defuses the situation it now has made it more safe. To me it is just a mere inconvince to have to let the officer see my weapon. An example: Some people gesture with their hands when they talk. If you have let the LEO temp. take possesion of your gun then he wont have to determin if that was a gesture you were making or if it was a movement toward your gun.

    I know you could counter with 1000 what if's That could make transfering a loaded weapon fropm one person to another "less safe" than not handing it over if the LEO asks.
    Again that my opinion on it as to why it is safer for the officer and the individual involved. I am sure there are differing opinions.

    But don't you see, as a dispatcher you can ask questions of the caller in regards to the level of response needed. You can short circuit the adrenaline, by telling the officer it looks like a lawful open carry call, be careful, but don't get pumped up. These are very different from a shots fired, a robbery, or other serious crimes called in. It's a guy having coffee or a women shopping that happens to be open carrying and the cops get called. You can inform the officer while he is in route, that's one of the things we are trying to change in regards to 911 calls.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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