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Thread: Open carrier cited for LOADED weapon in public, firearm SEIZED...

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  2. #2
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    I'm asking that any specifics not be discussed until the dust settles. The individual was clearly legal and has witnesses so sorry to put the squash on discussion but more will followin the coming weeks.

    UPDATE!!!


    Open Carry(loaded firearm in public): Charges Not Brought - Chino Hills, CA Marine Case





    Charges were dropped in People v. Lin in Chino. Lcpl. Lin was a US Marine as well, but please don't confuse this with the Oceanside case regarding Sean B.

    Here is a statement from Chuck Michel at TMLLP:


    Quote:



    Our office was recently retained by Lcpl. Lin of the US Marine Corps
    regarding a citation he received in Chino for carrying a "loaded"
    firearm in public.

    Calguns Foundation has been assisting with his defense.

    The firearm was not "loaded" under California law. Under 12031 PC a
    firearm is "loaded" when there is ammunition within the firearm in a
    position where the ammunition can be fired. People v. Clark.

    Unfortunately, the Chino Police officer who cited Lcpl. Lin apparently
    was unfamiliar with the law.

    We placed several calls to the police department and to the San
    Bernardino District Attorney's Office leaving messages about the case
    and the law.

    Not certain if our persistence had anything to do with it, but the DA
    has rejected the case and refused to file the case.

    We will assist in getting the client's gun back if necessary. He has
    already submitted a LEGR.

    Chuck Michel
    Again, my personal advice is to not open carry at this time. Quite a few of the coalition are of the strong opinion that all these incidents will do is press the legislature to change the Penal Code. That change would be premature - we need to have incorporation settled before that change occurs.

    However, congratulations to Lcpl. Lin and please support Sean B. by donating to the Calguns Foundation.

    -Gene





  3. #3
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    totally understand about not discussing openly, but please DO NOT FORGET to update us whenever possible.

  4. #4
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    We need some hypothetical situations at least...........:what:

  5. #5
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    Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of the event referenced. This thread is the first only only thing I've heard about it.

    I'm willing to bet an employee of one of our friendly neighborhood Thugs'n'Badges, Inc took personal liberties with interpreting the definition of 'loaded' under 12031. I'm going to bet the person in question simply had an unloaded firearm and 'loaded' magazines in his/her possession. I'll also bet that the case will be quickly and quietly dismissed so as to avoid embarrassing the local Thugs'n'Badges, Inc.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Librarian has posted a thorough reference to all things related to the definition of loaded over on CalGuns:

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=103660



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    Must have missed what was posted on the calguns site before it was removed but I can't wait till the story can be told. Hopefully there will be some accountability on the part of the arresting officers assuming the OCer was in the right.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: I have no direct knowledge of the event referenced.

    You can probably be pretty sure that CA_Libertarian wins money when he visits Las Vegas.

  9. #9
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Update coming soon! Yes I'm a tease! It will be good news generally!

  10. #10
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    excellent!

  11. #11
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    UPDATE!!!


    Open Carry(loaded firearm in public): Charges Not Brought - Chino Hills, CA Marine Case





    Charges were dropped in People v. Lin in Chino. Lcpl. Lin was a US Marine as well, but please don't confuse this with the Oceanside case regarding Sean B.

    Here is a statement from Chuck Michel at TMLLP:


    Quote:



    Our office was recently retained by Lcpl. Lin of the US Marine Corps
    regarding a citation he received in Chino for carrying a "loaded"
    firearm in public.

    Calguns Foundation has been assisting with his defense.

    The firearm was not "loaded" under California law. Under 12031 PC a
    firearm is "loaded" when there is ammunition within the firearm in a
    position where the ammunition can be fired. People v. Clark.

    Unfortunately, the Chino Police officer who cited Lcpl. Lin apparently
    was unfamiliar with the law.

    We placed several calls to the police department and to the San
    Bernardino District Attorney's Office leaving messages about the case
    and the law.

    Not certain if our persistence had anything to do with it, but the DA
    has rejected the case and refused to file the case.

    We will assist in getting the client's gun back if necessary. He has
    already submitted a LEGR.

    Chuck Michel
    Again, my personal advice is to not open carry at this time. Quite a few of the coalition are of the strong opinion that all these incidents will do is press the legislature to change the Penal Code. That change would be premature - we need to have incorporation settled before that change occurs.

    However, congratulations to Lcpl. Lin and please support Sean B. by donating to the Calguns Foundation.

    -Gene





  12. #12
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    well, that's AWESOME news. but we continue to be told to not OC!!!

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    cato wrote:
    UPDATE!!!Â*


    Again, my personal advice is to not open carry at this time. Quite a few of the coalition are of the strong opinion that all these incidents will do is press the legislature to change the Penal Code. That change would be premature - we need to have incorporation settled before that change occurs.

    However, congratulations to Lcpl. Lin and please support Sean B. by donating to the Calguns Foundation.

    -Gene
    [/b]


    "Quite a few people" also believe the earth is flat, God exists, and that Barack Obama is going to eliminate anthropogenic CO2.

    None of that should cause those of us with the capacity for rational thought to modify our behavior one bit. I'll continue to behave in accordance with conclusions reached through empirical observation, thank you very much.

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    Sean B-You just received a donation from me to help in your case!

  15. #15
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    The advice not to OC at this time is based upon the belief that incorporation would help keep dumb laws from being made, and if made easily overturned.

    That is really important in CA where a ruling against guns is very predictable in the 9th US Circuit Court, but a ruling to support civil rights (incorporation would = 2A is a civil right) is even more predictable.

    Hopefully the incorporation issue will be settled soon.

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  16. #16
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    <<<we need to have incorporation settled before that change occurs.>>>



    Am I missing something? It's legal, what incorporation is in process? if any?



    we need loaded carry and that school zones to be nullified outside the actual property lines unless a crime was commited..

    Lets all collectively hire/pay Chuck M. and get this done?

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Seriously... That I would donate money for. :?

  18. #18
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    It's kinda like the Heller case ...it took Heller to get on it before the NRA got on the case and helped. I can't figure out why this didn't happen 30 yrs ago..

    I am going to see next weekend at the NRA member councils meeting if anyone is with me on this and wants to help.

    http://www.calnra.com/conference08.shtml

    Wayne LaPierre will be there also and I have yet to meet him..going to be a good day if I get to bend his ear.

  19. #19
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    I'm sure they're considering it but we need to make our voices heard that the overturn of 12031 is a priority to us.

  20. #20
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    cato wrote:
    I'm sure they're considering it but we need to make our voices heard that the overturn of 12031 is a priority to us.
    where are we on this?

  21. #21
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    LostCoast wrote:
    cato wrote:
    I'm sure they're considering it but we need to make our voices heard that the overturn of 12031 is a priority to us.
    where are we on this?
    Don't know I'm not in the inner circle. But we should be contacting our member councils and reps and letting them know where we stand. Also, there are many in the gun rights world in Ca. who are still ignorant of how 12031 effects the denial of the 2nd A. here. We need to spreading the word and passing out OC pamphlets.



  22. #22
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    yes we are at a disadvantage unloaded (12031) as well as locked in a container in School Zones....both need to be fixed so we may defend ourselves equally.

  23. #23
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    I think we're waiting on the incorporation of Heller before any further state laws are brought up. The Doe case in California can be followed here: http://news.justia.com/cases/feature...v03112/204693/

    The Chicago case I believe is here:
    http://news.justia.com/cases/feature...v03697/221282/

    Never used this site before, so I'm not sure how detailed they get with their updates, but it provides some information on the status.

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