The Racist Origins of the Second Amendment

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

you know I really have to wonder when we reached the point to where the end all be all of any argument is the race card. want a politician to vote a certain way? point out the "racist"aspects of teh alternate opinion. want SC justices to rule in favor of DC? just start calling the second ammendment racist. it is statistical fact that blacks commit more crimes than whites. is this racist? yes, blacks face the business end of a gun more often than whites, but were they not commiting criminal acts, manyt of those instances would never have happened.

understand, I am not saying that all blacks are criminals, but statistically, blacks commit more crimes per capita than whites.

I for one am sick and tired of EVERYTHING being racist. 2A is racist, anti @a is racist, cops are racist, robbers are racist, money is racist, the lack thereof is racist, etc.

the single largest racist organization in America today is the NAACP, and yet they are the ones who repeatedly wish to deem everything, but themselves, to be a part of some mass global caucasian conspiracy designed to oppress teh black man.

why in the world can America not actually debate issues and try to show how your side is right, instead of making everything about race and trying to prove that the other side is racist? that article makes me nautious in ways that I never knew I could be nautious.

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The "problem" is that the NAACP, Al Sharp, Jesse Jackson and their ilk make soooo damn much money off of racism :cuss:They will NEVER let it die.

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icode wrote:

The "problem" is that the NAACP, Al Sharp, Jesse Jackson and their ilk make soooo damn much money off of racism :cuss:They will NEVER let it die.

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exactly my point. since they can't make any more money off of "racial equality", they must now promote black Supremacy, which is all raced based initiatives like "affirmative action" is all about.

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

I for one am sick and tired of EVERYTHING being racist. 2A is racist, anti @a is racist, cops are racist, robbers are racist, money is racist, the lack thereof is racist, etc.

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Well, when the slaves were freed there were jimcrow laws that discriminated against the right to bear arms for Blacks in addition to their other rights such as voting etc. The Jim crow laws were racist. Modern proponents of gun control activists may not be racist, but 1865-1900 laws mostly were targeted intentionallyat African Americans. Of course, no-one today is passing laws that strictly bar off immigrants and Blacks from owning guns like they used to in the distant past, but they still want to ban cheap guns which, perhaps unintentionally to modern gun control activists, has the similar effect of making it harder for minorities to own guns since immigrants oftentake low paying jobs.

I was talking to someone who supported bans on "saturday night specials" and their reasoning was that poor neighborhoods are more violent. (As opposed to other proponents of bans who say they are "throw-away guns" to murder people with and then toss away). My response was that if poor neighborhoods are dangerous that's an evenbetter reason for poor people to be able to defend themselves. Even if no race is played here, I would say that the idea of banning cheap guns, (at least by the reasons of the person I talked to), isdiscriminatory, at the least, towards poor people.

I agree with you that it is lame to call everything racist. I only bring up the racist roots of some of the most stringent attempts to disarm people in the U.S. when people try to tell me the 2nd Amendment is racist or the NRA is racist. I've even had people tell me that the NRA was buddies with the KKK. I always mention then that Ulysses S. Grant was a president of the NRA after he was president of the United States and used the military to pursue the KKK in the anti-klan acts. (And that the NRA was started by Union officers after the civil war.) I've also read how after the civil war some African Americans went armed to the polls in order to vote without being intimidated by racists who were doing what they could to stop them. I'd say thats a good argument against banning the carrying of firearms. Even if people aren't so racist today, whose to say who will be discriminated against in the future who could benefit by being armed. Guns tend to level the playing field a bit.

Not all gun control activists are racists, but gun control, like virtually every other restrictionhas been used at times to supress people based on race.

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

you know I really have to wonder when we reached the point to where the end all be all of any argument is the race card. want a politician to vote a certain way? point out the "racist"aspects of teh alternate opinion. want SC justices to rule in favor of DC? just start calling the second ammendment racist. it is statistical fact that blacks commit more crimes than whites. is this racist? yes, blacks face the business end of a gun more often than whites, but were they not commiting criminal acts, manyt of those instances would never have happened.

understand, I am not saying that all blacks are criminals, but statistically, blacks commit more crimes per capita than whites.

I for one am sick and tired of EVERYTHING being racist. 2A is racist, anti @a is racist, cops are racist, robbers are racist, money is racist, the lack thereof is racist, etc.

the single largest racist organization in America today is the NAACP, and yet they are the ones who repeatedly wish to deem everything, but themselves, to be a part of some mass global caucasian conspiracy designed to oppress teh black man.

why in the world can America not actually debate issues and try to show how your side is right, instead of making everything about race and trying to prove that the other side is racist? that article makes me nautious in ways that I never knew I could be nautious.

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I, too, am tired of all of this crap. Whites are discriminated against far to much and it gets old. (proof: execitive orders 11246 and 11375).

Ref your comment about blacks committing more crimes than whites, that is true. Around 10+ years ago, 57% of the violent crimes in the US were committed by blacks. In more recent years, Central and South Americans have altered that percentage significantly. But it didn't use to be that way. Sixty years ago, blacks committed fewer violent crimes than whites. What do you think happened in the interim? The answer would take me a little while to write out but it has to do with huge social changes.

Currently minorities, and another elephant, are the major discriminators in the US (the other elephant being the government). Race and racial recognition converts to money and power.

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

you know I really have to wonder when we reached the point to where the end all be all of any argument is the race card. want a politician to vote a certain way? point out the "racist"aspects of teh alternate opinion. want SC justices to rule in favor of DC? just start calling the second ammendment racist. it is statistical fact that blacks commit more crimes than whites. is this racist? yes, blacks face the business end of a gun more often than whites, but were they not commiting criminal acts, manyt of those instances would never have happened.

understand, I am not saying that all blacks are criminals, but statistically, blacks commit more crimes per capita than whites.

I for one am sick and tired of EVERYTHING being racist. 2A is racist, anti @a is racist, cops are racist, robbers are racist, money is racist, the lack thereof is racist, etc.

the single largest racist organization in America today is the NAACP, and yet they are the ones who repeatedly wish to deem everything, but themselves, to be a part of some mass global caucasian conspiracy designed to oppress teh black man.

why in the world can America not actually debate issues and try to show how your side is right, instead of making everything about race and trying to prove that the other side is racist? that article makes me nautious in ways that I never knew I could be nautious.

Click to expand...

Your avatar reminds me of a discussion I had with Johnny Reb friends on a Vietnam Veterans forum. Born in IL and living in New England for the longest stretch of my life, I would have fought with the North in the Civil War as they would have the South. However, my point to them was if there ever was a second Civil War, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, Kansas and many other Yankee stateswould fight with AL, MS, TX etc because it would be over our right to keep and bear firearms.

I also believe CORE filed an amicus brief in support of Heller. So not all Black organizations follow the idiots in the NAACP. Decent Black people need a firearm in DC more than the wealthy who live in Fairfax. Some Black leaders have the brains to understand that. To say the 2nd Amendment is racist is the biggest pile of BS I've heard yet. In keeping with the 14th, it is 180 degrees opposite racism.

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Gunslinger wrote:

In keeping with the 14th, it is 180 degrees opposite racism.

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actually, the 14th ammendment is probably the only discriminatory ammendment in the constitution, but that is a matter for another day...

No, not all black organizations follow the lead of teh NAACP, but many do. rather than seek to influence the black community in a positive way, most tend to perpetuate the "poor black man" myth by insisting that blacks will neverachievesocial equality until they are issued reperations. this has casued a negative mindset in many blacks, and it is dangerous, to say the least. it is this "you owe me" mindset that has caused much of the modern tension between teh black and white races, and instead it is blamed on an institution that ceased to exist here well over a century ago.

blacks should own guns every bit as much as whites. ask Al SHarpton and Je$$e Jackon, about it however, andthe idea of blacks owning the tools of freedom is somehow causing them to remain oppresed? go figure...

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Having had agood and valuable Southern upbringing, there would have been hell to pay in my home if we treated people, regardless of their color, in any sort of disrespectful manner. Respectand civility was drilled into my bother and me from a very early age. And I well remember the earliest beginnings of the "civil rights" movement. In high school, I joined CORE and worked with them for a little while. However, it wasn't too long before it became obvious that there were sinister forces at hand, using gullible young well-meaning white kids to further their own agenda.. and at the expense of good and decent black Americans.

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SouthernBoy wrote:

Having had agood and valuable Southern upbringing, there would have been hell to pay in my home if we treated people, regardless of their color, in any sort of disrespectful manner.

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exactly the same with me. I was born and raised in georgia. my mammaw would often threaten to let whoever I had disrespected whip me, and then she would whenever they were through. you just didn't argue with a punishment like that...

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

Having had agood and valuable Southern upbringing, there would have been hell to pay in my home if we treated people, regardless of their color, in any sort of disrespectful manner.

Click to expand...

exactly the same with me. I was born and raised in georgia. my mammaw would often threaten to let whoever I had disrespected whip me, and then she would whenever they were through. you just didn't argue with a punishment like that...

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Yes sir. I had my share of whippings, usually with a belt or a switch from a weeping willow tree. But hair brushes, spatullas, and the bare hand was also used on my butt, upper legs, and arms. And I had my mouth washed out with soap a few times, too - that is trully nasty.

But you know something? I am grateful for every spanking I received because I know that such discipline helped teach me something and kept me out of trouble as I got older.

There are actually idiots out there who believe that physical discipline for children should be banned. How and the hell are they going to pull that off? And more importantly, why? (actually I DO know the why of it, but that would be food for another discussion).

My mom had a wonderful way of dealing with people of questionable character and sensibilities. Treat everyone with dignity and respect until they give you reason not to. Then just avoid them.

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SouthernBoy wrote:

Yes sir. I had my share of whippings, usually with a belt or a switch from a weeping willow tree. But hair brushes, spatullas, and the bare hand was also used on my butt, upper legs, and arms. And I had my mouth washed out with soap a few times, too - that is trully nasty.

But you know something? I am grateful for every spanking I received because I know that such discipline helped teach me something and kept me out of trouble as I got older.

There are actually idiots out there who believe that physical discipline for children should be banned. How and the hell are they going to pull that off? And more importantly, why? (actually I DO know the why of it, but that would be food for another discussion).

My mom had a wonderful way of dealing with people of questionable character and sensibilities. Teach everyone with dignity and respect until they give you reason not to. Then just avoid them.

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I'm even a "youngster" compared to the majority of the people on this forum, and I was subject to physical punishment. Granted, I was only ever hit once, when I was 3 or 4 years old, and learned from that incident to listen to my parents from that point on, but the threat was always there... Unfortunately, my parents were pulled into the new-fangled permissive style of parenting when my younger brother was born, and the lack of any sort of punishment beyond a harshly worded condemnation has already become apparent in his behavior. :?

Anyhow, in a society that assumes every person is either completely sober or drunk, and that anyone with a gun is either a criminal or a cop, I don't see much hope for the sh**ple to grasp the concept of physical discipline of children.

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SouthernBoy wrote:

Yes sir. I had my share of whippings, usually with a belt or a switch from a weeping willow tree. But hair brushes, spatullas, and the bare hand was also used on my butt, upper legs, and arms. And I had my mouth washed out with soap a few times, too - that is trully nasty.

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the little keen hickory is teh worst, bar none.

Imperialism, you are exactly right about permissive, or more acurattely submissive parenting. I have always been a believer that corporal punishment is the only viable method for teaching hildren right from wrong. when used PROPERLY, it can make any child better.

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Damn, ya'll had it easy!! I would get the strap, about a 2 foot piece of broom stick with 6 one inch by 3 foot leather strips on the end. That really instilled a lesson in me more than once. It is amazing that that was ok back then in NY....oh how the times have changed for the worse. I am certain that many of the problems caused by these unruly kids today could have easily be solved early in their life with a good and well deserved whoop’n. It truly does pay off in the end and leads to a person that respects all. I am still plagued with the “I don’t think your mother would approve” thoughts… that keeps me on the straight and narrow to this day.