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Cuffed, Detained & Disarmed outside Subway

Gray Peterson

Gray Peterson

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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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Agent 47 wrote:
I think I may have figured it out, we went years enjoying the good relationship Snohomish county deputies have had with OC'ers and now just in the last few months we have had several very bad encounters with them. In my case they even went out of their way and across jurisdictional boundaries to harass me. Sheriff Bart had been one of the most gun friendly sheriffs we have had in a long time. He was up to date on gun laws and supported the peoples right to bear arms openly. Now we have, only a couple months ago, Sheriff Luvic taking office, the first time I met him he guardedly expressed his dislike of peoples gun rights and expressly said he would absolutely refuse to sign a form 4 for a silencer transfer. In fact he has since signed a couple of them but it took a lawyer threatening to sue the department if he didn't. Luvic is a former Washington state patrol officer who's law enforcement career is centered in the time when RCW 9.41.270 was used to ban open carry. Effectively he has been out of the loop and has missed all the progress the open carry movement has had in this state and in Snohomish county. He is imparting both his misunderstanding of the law as well as his personal dislike of RTKABA onto his deputies and in turn the deputies who share his dislike of citizens who legally carry are breaking the law with little fear of disciplinary actions coming from higher up.
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It's going to anyway, however I'm not sure sure of this theory. I've been hearing about Snoco deputies threatening open carriers during Bart's era. Most of the beat cops don't generally care who's up on top as the actual Sheriff, so...

We'll see.
 
R

Ravenhawk

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Kent, Washington, USA
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ScottyT wrote:
I am horribly broke at the moment, but if you set up an account for legal fees I would gladly pitch in $10 or so. I know it is not much, but it is what I have and if everyone could do at least that much it would go a long way to defraying the cost of a lawyer!
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Well I strongly suggest you at least make a complaint in regards to this crime ... so if it happens again it wont be the 1st time and a pattern will be established.

I've had to make a complaint on SPD a few years ago as I got jerked outta my car face down in rain during a Terry stop, illegaly detained for 30-45 minutes ... threatened by officers etc ....

I was contacted by IA and told an investigation was being done and recieved a full apology .. at lest from IA.
 
Gray Peterson

Gray Peterson

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Just an FYI,

I'm working on the situation with a few associates, and making contact with Snohomish County Sheriff's upper management. We'll see how it goes.
 
retrodad

retrodad

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Greater Seattle Area
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That does it, I'm getting a good, digital audio recorder (like this) before I ever attempt my first OC anywhere. That and a good Serpa, of course.

Between this and the Lewis County discussion, I'm feeling great trepidation about OCing at all.
 
N

Nosrac

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Lakewood, Washington, USA
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Jamfish wrote:
That does it, I'm getting a good, digital audio recorder (like this) before I ever attempt my first OC anywhere. That and a good Serpa, of course.

Between this and the Lewis County discussion, I'm feeling great trepidation about OCing at all.
Click to expand...
I wonder what the mic and sound quality is like on that unit. Looks like a good idea.
 
Gray Peterson

Gray Peterson

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You *shouldn't* have an issue OCing in the places that have issued training advisories, especially Seattle as we haven't had any RECENT issues with them.

I actually recommend getting something with MORE retention than the Serpa. Myself, I ordered a Class 3 Retention Holster from Safariland for my Springfield XD. The model number is 6360, which I'm having a hood guard AND the lock installed. I should get it soon.
 
P

Patch

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Mountlake Terrace, ,
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Wheelgunner wrote:
I carry my little recorder just for such a situation, but I always thought I would get some warning! A smash, takedown and cuff is extraordinary, but not unexpected given the increasing LE hostility toward OC.

He was just trying to make a point to all of us, that we are not living in the 1800's and we damn well better stop infringing on the modern "right" that only police officers should be allowed to OC and cut out that damn Constitution talk or they will give out a few broken wrists.

This could grow into an interesting News story, the relationship between law abiding citizens, most of whom have perfect records (CC permits), most of whom know more aboutfirearms, ballistics, ammunition and general weapons technologythan the police and police officers who feel that ONLY they should open carry, despite the law. Anyone know a good reporter?


:X
Click to expand...

Susan West

swest@tribune.com

Desk: 206-674-1587

Cell: 206-396-0703

Q13

:D
 
D

David.Car

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Jun 1, 2008
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Location
Spokane, Washington, USA
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Nosrac wrote:
Jamfish wrote:
That does it, I'm getting a good, digital audio recorder (like this) before I ever attempt my first OC anywhere. That and a good Serpa, of course.

Between this and the Lewis County discussion, I'm feeling great trepidation about OCing at all.
Click to expand...
I wonder what the mic and sound quality is like on that unit. Looks like a good idea.
Click to expand...

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-VN4100-Digital-Voice-Recorder/dp/B000OVPBA4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1212439218&sr=1-2

Only 30 bucks with free shipping... Looking like a sweet deal right now.
 
Ajetpilot

Ajetpilot

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Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
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David.Car wrote:
Only 30 bucks with free shipping... Looking like a sweet deal right now.
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I read the description, but I didn't see any provision for downloading to a computer. I have an OlympusWS-300M that records in Windows Media format. It has aUSB plug on the recorder that plugs directly into my computer. Then it is only a matter of "drag and drop" to transfer the files. Make sure the device you get has a similar capability.
 
retrodad

retrodad

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Thanks for the thread-drift reminder, Wacko :) Didn't mean to jack/derail the very serious issues surrounding Badger's encounter.

And thanks, Lonnie, for the reminder/encouragement; Seattle is only one of my daily destinations. The rest of the time I'm up in your neck of the woods.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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Auburn, Washington, USA
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Jamfish, I've spoken with an officer at Edmonds PD and he has stated that they're aware that OC is legal and that some of the officers are gun collectors themselves. I've never had a problem with Edmonds and they've always been very professional in my experiences with them (traffic stops).
 
Ajetpilot

Ajetpilot

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Jamfish wrote:
Between this and the Lewis County discussion, I'm feeling great trepidation about OCing at all.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly how most local governments and many LEOs want you to feel: intimidated to the point of not exercising your constitutionally guaranteed rights.
 
Mainsail

Mainsail

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Apr 24, 2007
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Silverdale, Washington, USA
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Ajetpilot wrote:
Jamfish wrote:
Between this and the Lewis County discussion, I'm feeling great trepidation about OCing at all.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly how most local governments and many LEOs want you to feel: intimidated to the point of not exercising your constitutionally guaranteed rights.
Click to expand...

Well this should make you feel better. On Sunday I rode my bicycle out of Stadium, down along the waterfront past half a dozen ‘emphasis patrol’ TPD cars, through the Ruston Tunnel, into Ruston, and through Point Defiance Park. After a loop along Five Mile Drive, stopping at all the lookouts, and being seen by numerous motorists, I rode back the way I came. No harassment whatsoever.
 
O

Ohio Patriot

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Saint Paris, Ohio, USA
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Those cops broke so many laws that I lost track of how many they broke.


If history is any indication their eventual defense will be, "We were ignorant of the law." This is so wrong for two reasons:


1.The cops admitted open carry was legal. So it's a lie that they were ignorant of the law. They knew no laws were being broken- they simply wanted to harass you.


2.Even if they were genuinely ignorant of the law (which they weren't – see #1), ignorance cannot be used as an excuse. You're not allowed to use ignorance as an excuse for committing a crime, right? Neither can cops.
 
T

tattedupboy

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Gary, Indiana, USA
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t3rmin wrote:
Wow. Just wow. I'm so sorry. Nobody should have to endure this from THEIR PUBLIC SERVANTS.
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Correction. No one not engaged in criminal activity should have to endure this from their public servants.

Yet another example of police officers in an obviously hoplophobic urban area harassing a law abiding citizen. I'm pretty sure that this incident is not due to an ignorance of the law; if it had been he would have been taken to jail. Simply detaining someone and handcuffing them without so much as a citation seems to me to be a case of the officers doing whatever they can to discourage a lawful activity that they do not like.

Where I live, even though open carry with a permit is technically legal, the activities of criminals and gangbangers have have given police a hostile attitude toward citizens who carry legally, whether openly or concealed. Even though it is my right, because I do not want to end up face down on the ground with a knee on my back, I would never open carry here. If I ever visit Seattle, I'm pretty sure I would not open carry there, either. It seems that in certain places, no matter how peaceable and responsible some law abiding citizens have shown themselves to be, the mere sight of a gun is enough for hoplophobic people and police to make their lives miserable.
 
S

sv_libertarian

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Olympia, WA, ,
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tattedupboy wrote:
t3rmin wrote:
Wow. Just wow. I'm so sorry. Nobody should have to endure this from THEIR PUBLIC SERVANTS.
Click to expand...
Correction. No one not engaged in criminal activity should have to endure this from their public servants.

Yet another example of police officers in an obviously hoplophobic urban area harassing a law abiding citizen. I'm pretty sure that this incident is not due to an ignorance of the law; if it had been he would have been taken to jail. Simply detaining someone and handcuffing them without so much as a citation seems to me to be a case of the officers doing whatever they can to discourage a lawful activity that they do not like.

Where I live, even though open carry with a permit is technically legal, the activities of criminals and gangbangers have have given police a hostile attitude toward citizens who carry legally, whether openly or concealed. Even though it is my right, because I do not want to end up face down on the ground with a knee on my back, I would never open carry here. If I ever visit Seattle, I'm pretty sure I would not open carry there, either. It seems that in certain places, no matter how peaceable and responsible some law abiding citizens have shown themselves to be, the mere sight of a gun is enough for hoplophobic people and police to make their lives miserable.
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Seattle is chill on OC. It is everett we have been having lots of problems with of late.
I OC around cops all the time in downtown Seattle when I go there...
 
C

CC27

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, Washington, USA
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So you have a cop put you in a wrist lock from behind without identifying himself? I just wonder whatwould have happened if that cop got a heel to the nuts and apalm to the nose? I just think that I would instantly go into self defence mode if this happened to me.
 
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