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Thread: Washington State Residents the Most Recent Victims of Homeland Security

  1. #1
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    This should scare people a little.
    According to the news articles linked to below, the Department of Homeland Security has continued the expansion of its un-American enforcement activities by directing them against Washington State residents utilizing Northwest domestic Ferry services.

    Specifically, Border Patrol Agents have established suspicionless checkpoints at domestic Ferry terminals servicing the residents of the San Juan Islands off the coast of Washington. The islands are part of Washington State and island inhabitants are Washington State residents.

    Despite the fact that the Ferry services in question never cross an international border, this hasn’t deterred Homeland Security agents from directing scarce ’security’ resources against Washington State residents absent reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing. Thus proving once again that DHS either has no clue on how to defend the ‘Homeland’ or no intention of doing so.

    Rather the specter of terrorism and illegal immigration are used as excuses for the continued expansion of federal influence and control at the expense of the founding principles of this country.

    While recent events in Washington State are being mimicked in one form or another in border states across the country, I’d like to bring attention to a quote from attorney Matt Adams of the Northwest Immigration Rights Project:


    "They can ask you where you’re from; they can ask you to show your papers or to show your driver’s license or to show your birth certificate — but you don’t have to provide that information," Adams says.

    Because these checkpoints are not on the border, people have a greater right to privacy, Adams says.

    "What I suggest to individuals is to politely refuse to answer questions, and then if they still don’t let you go, to say ‘Am I under arrest? If I’m not under arrest, I’d like to continue on my way,’ " he says.

    Words we all need to take to heart as ‘Homeland Security’ intrusion continues to grow in our daily lives.

    Putting a stop to the burgeoning American police state will not happen from the top down. It will only happen when enough individuals decide to take individual action in common cause.

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    +1

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    "Homeland" sounds a lot like "Fatherland" or "Motherland"........where did these other two terms to describe a country come from, hmm?

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    "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of public safety and National Defense.”



    We seeing this happen now and under Obama or Hillary it will get worse fast.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of public safety and National Defense.”



    We seeing this happen now and under Obama or Hillary it will get worse fast.
    It's going to happen equally under all of the mainstream candidates. In fact, maybe the Republicans will actually pull their heads out of their butts and care about civil liberties again with Obama or Hillary in power, instead of completely ignoring everything but guns like they do now.

    Nonetheless my vote goes to Barr.

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    I'm hoping that the Libertarian Party grows as fast, or faster, than Homeland Security.

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    I'm hoping that the Libertarian Party grows as fast, or faster, than Homeland Security.
    They tend to be at kind of a disadvantage there, as they don't get to print their own unlimited supply of money at everyone else's expense lol

    That said, I'm sure not donating money to anyone but them!

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    This has been going on and off ever since 9/11. After a bit the WSP gets the message that people don't like this...

    Odd thing about the ferries. They are part of the State Highway System, which means all the rights and protections of state law apply. However they are also a boat. Which means the Coasties can board them at will. However even in a boarding there is a great degree of privacy and protection. Unless this has changed in a couple of years, it is not required to show picture ID (although the vessel's papers must be in order) and there are only so many places they can search (engine compartment, head, etc...) and only to ascertain if the vessel is legal. So I don't believe they could detain or search vehicles on a ferry.

    This story about the San Juans is old news though, dunno if it is still going on.

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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    This has been going on and off ever since 9/11. After a bit the WSP gets the message that people don't like this...

    Odd thing about the ferries. They are part of the State Highway System, which means all the rights and protections of state law apply. However they are also a boat. Which means the Coasties can board them at will. However even in a boarding there is a great degree of privacy and protection. Unless this has changed in a couple of years, it is not required to show picture ID (although the vessel's papers must be in order) and there are only so many places they can search (engine compartment, head, etc...) and only to ascertain if the vessel is legal. So I don't believe they could detain or search vehicles on a ferry.

    This story about the San Juans is old news though, dunno if it is still going on.
    Much of that depends on *whom* is asking for the ID.

    If a Coast Guardsman asks for it, I'd give it to him - personally, that is.
    Squeak!

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of public safety and National Defense.”



    We seeing this happen now and under Obama or Hillary it will get worse fast.

    Bear - The point of that quote is very true, and it's a very real and scary one. But it's not the right quote, according to some internet research:

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Madison

    I did more research than that, but the proper quote appears to be:

    "The means of defence against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home."

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    Driving home from the airport I saw a rather odd car police cardriving down the highway beside me. Wouldn't you know it was a Department of Homeland Security Crown Victoria! Kinda made me think about when all police departments will be replaced and the DHS will take over.

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    G27 wrote:
    Driving home from the airport I saw a rather odd car police cardriving down the highway beside me. Wouldn't you know it was a Department of Homeland Security Crown Victoria! Kinda made me think about when all police departments will be replaced and the DHS will take over.
    You do live in a port state afterall and ICE is under DHS.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    There is NO 4th Amendment any more when you're floating;

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...=Cite:+14USC89

    The Coast Guard does searches and seizures all the time without any probable cause. My advice? Don't live on a houseboat....

    Oh, and they DON'T let people remain armed when they come aboard. I've always wondered what would happen if they boarded a fishing boat owned by a state trooper fishing in state waters, and the trooper claimed jurisdiction as well. Could get ugly.

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    USCG is just another armed arm of alphabet soup fedgov - DHSIRSFEMACBOGAO ad nauseam. No different.

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    johnfenter wrote:
    There is NO 4th Amendment any more when you're floating;

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...=Cite:+14USC89

    The Coast Guard does searches and seizures all the time without any probable cause. My advice? Don't live on a houseboat....

    Oh, and they DON'T let people remain armed when they come aboard. I've always wondered what would happen if they boarded a fishing boat owned by a state trooper fishing in state waters, and the trooper claimed jurisdiction as well. Could get ugly.
    As someone who lives on their sailboat, let me comment.
    The CG, and prior agencies have been boarding vessels on US waters for about as long have there have been US Waters. The boarding of vessels has been upheld as

    I have been stopped by the CG several times. I have never had an entire vessel searched. They check the engine compartment, the head, the safety equipment, the vessels paperwork, and generally leave everything else alone.

    As far as guns go, if you have one on you or unsecured when they board, they will remove the weapon until they leave. Have 'em all locked up, they don't bother. That is why I am installing a gun locker.

    I was stopped several times in my dinghy while there was a military cargo being unloaded in Oly and was armed. I just kept my hands visible, said "howdy" told 'em where I was going, and kept to the far edge of the channel. Never even showed ID.

    Boats are an odd duck legally, as it has long been held that a boarding of a vessel to check with compliance of federal law is not an "unreasonable" search.

    OTOH, it has been my experience that the Coasties are more interested in running down their checklist than anything else. "Leaking oil?" "Legal Head" "Flares, horn and life jackets in good shape?" "Throwable floation device"? "Fire Extinguisher", etc....

    For whatever it is worth governments have been boarding and inspecting boats for a very long time.

    Now they can't start searching the contents of my computer, or demand more than my boat's paperwork.

    I have never seen them root through a boat's lockers, cabinets, etc....

    Study up on maritime law a bit, it is interesting.

    Here is an interesting case...
    http://law.jrank.org/pages/13002/Uni...tes-v-Lee.html

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    Having boated in the San Juan's since 1952 it doesn't surprise me that they, and the ferries are getting attention. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they are a perfect illegal portal to the US from Canada. Booze was smuggled in through there in the 20's, drugs still come through, and if a "terrorist" want to, it would be no big deal to be dropped off on one of the Islands by a "recreational boater" from Canada and then continue on by ferry.

    I don't have a major issue with checkpoints like these as long as they are staffed by people with an IQ higher than "room temperature".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    svlibertarian, just because you haven't seen the CG do a full vessel search or go through your lockers, cabinets, and other effects, doesn't mean that it can't or won't happen. Given the code section cited here, I'm puzzled; why do you think they CAN'T go through your computer files or other private items while they have seized your vessel? I have heard of CG boarding parties that searched firearms lockers and recorded the serial numbers of all firearms found. I have yet to hear, however, of warrantless seizures of firearms that are removed from the vessel. I HAVE heard of the CG detaining and searching people on shore and on docks, however.

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    johnfenter wrote:
    svlibertarian, just because you haven't seen the CG do a full vessel search or go through your lockers, cabinets, and other effects, doesn't mean that it can't or won't happen. Given the code section cited here, I'm puzzled; why do you think they CAN'T go through your computer files or other private items while they have seized your vessel? I have heard of CG boarding parties that searched firearms lockers and recorded the serial numbers of all firearms found. I have yet to hear, however, of warrantless seizures of firearms that are removed from the vessel. I HAVE heard of the CG detaining and searching people on shore and on docks, however.
    Because a study of case law suggests to me that they can search a vessel itself, and that includes lockers, but nothing about private effects. I don't see where they can search a person's luggage.

    I have been detained on the shore briefly if you consider being told to go back to a boat so it can be boarded as detained.

    There is also a difference between boarding and seizure of a vessel. Boarding is to check for law violations, typically safety equipment and pollution, although they may also do various checks for drugs or contraband. A seizure happens after something that warrants impounding the vessel is found.

    I've never had them examine any of my firearms so I don't know what they will do over my gun locker.





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    (doubletap)

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    maclean wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    This has been going on and off ever since 9/11. After a bit the WSP gets the message that people don't like this...

    Odd thing about the ferries. They are part of the State Highway System, which means all the rights and protections of state law apply. However they are also a boat. Which means the Coasties can board them at will. However even in a boarding there is a great degree of privacy and protection. Unless this has changed in a couple of years, it is not required to show picture ID (although the vessel's papers must be in order) and there are only so many places they can search (engine compartment, head, etc...) and only to ascertain if the vessel is legal. So I don't believe they could detain or search vehicles on a ferry.

    This story about the San Juans is old news though, dunno if it is still going on.
    Much of that depends on *whom* is asking for the ID.

    If a Coast Guardsman asks for it, I'd give it to him - personally, that is.
    Well sure. If you're going to just give away the constitution anyway, it must feel nice to pretend that you have principles.

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    "...examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken..."

    I see nothing here excepting personal effects aboard the vessel. I maintain that anything on board is fair game under this Code section, which is a shame. Case law does not preclude them pawing through your computer files to look for the possible interstate transfer of child porn; you know, just in case you're violating 18USC2251...

    I particularly find it annoying when the CG is found in places like Crater Lake, which is hardly near the actual "coast".

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    johnfenter wrote:
    "...examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken..."

    I see nothing here excepting personal effects aboard the vessel. I maintain that anything on board is fair game under this Code section, which is a shame. Case law does not preclude them pawing through your computer files to look for the possible interstate transfer of child porn; you know, just in case you're violating 18USC2251...

    I particularly find it annoying when the CG is found in places like Crater Lake, which is hardly near the actual "coast".
    That would be the US constitution.

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    If you're going to just give away the constitution anyway
    Hopefully you'll eventually realize that AllAtOnce is not the only possible way to get from where we actually are now, to where you think we should be; and that sometimes, in practice, trying for AllAtOnce makes the journey take longer.

    (And just to clarify: I pretty much agree with you about the desirable destination here.)

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    Well, ifCongress and the Coast Guardactually cared about the Constitution, the Code section that I originally cited would be a lot different in the first place, wouldn't it? Inspection and customs searches of commercial vessels arriving from foreign ports would be covered; searches and disarming of recreational boaters who haven't even left STATE waters probably wouldn't be allowed. But, as we have seen, they DON'T care about the 2nd or 4th Amendments. Don't be surprised when they go through your personal effects on your liveaboard boat. After all, since you live there, EVERYTHING on board is your personal effects.

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    johnfenter wrote:
    Well, ifCongress and the Coast Guardactually cared about the Constitution, the Code section that I originally cited would be a lot different in the first place, wouldn't it? Inspection and customs searches of commercial vessels arriving from foreign ports would be covered; searches and disarming of recreational boaters who haven't even left STATE waters probably wouldn't be allowed. But, as we have seen, they DON'T care about the 2nd or 4th Amendments. Don't be surprised when they go through your personal effects on your liveaboard boat. After all, since you live there, EVERYTHING on board is your personal effects.
    For a very, very long time the courts have held that a boarding of a vessel is not "unreasonable" per the Federal Constitution.

    It has to do with old maritime law and practice. The boarding of vessels was commonplace and accepted even before the US exisited.

    I don't think they can toss your entire boat without some sort of probable cause for drug use, or smuggling, etc...

    Then again, I'm the liveaboard boater here, so what do I know?

    Actually I've never had a problem with coasties and guns. They could care less IMHO, as long as they are not pointed at them.

    They are not there to check guns.

    But just to end this danged argument, I am going to email the CG in Seattle and ask them some questions.

    Dang I get into this argument every couple of years. It is tiring.

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