Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Open carry questions

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    First of all I want to say hello. I've been reading your forum for a few days to get some answers to some of my questions about open carry in Michigan. It's been a big help. You've answered almost all of my questions, or pointed me in the right direction to find answers. Thanks to everyone postingin here.

    I do have a fewquestions though that I can't seem to findanswers to, or possibly overlooked. I apologize in advance if you've already answered these somewhere else.

    I've been hunting and shooting in Michigan for most of my life, so I have a pretty good understanding of the laws regarding firearms. I've always known that Michigan is an open carry state, I've just never done it. I'm applying for my CPL and should have it sometime this summer.During the process I became curious about open carry. Some of these questions are about open carry and some about concealed carry.

    I know the laws about transporting pistols, but I'm wondering if that inhibits where you can open carry. Can I follow the laws on transporting and take a pistol with me to a location where I would like to open carry, or would I be required to walk everywhere? I'm wondering about that private property part. IfI was to park in say a parking lot of a business would that be allowed? I'm also wondering if I would need the store's permission to do so.

    Also, what about the laws regarding establishments that sell alcohol? I originally understood the law to mean only places that serve alcohol in open containers for consumption, but I've sinceread something that lead me to think that any place that sells alcohol, including stores such as party stores or liquor stores, would be a gun free zone.If I parked at astore that sells alcohol would the parking lot be considered a gun free zone or just the store itself? The short version of what I'm asking is: How can Itransport the pistol to a location away from my home to a public place where I would like to open carry without breaking the laws on where I can transport the pistol to?



    I also have aquestion about concealed carry. I know that I can carry concealed in my own home. The law uses the words "dwelling house", so my question is, does that apply to rental property? If I rent my home and property from someone else and don't actually own it can I carry concealed in the home or on the property? If so, do I need a landlord or property owner'spermission to do so?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    Buz wrote:
    First of all I want to say hello. I've been reading your forum for a few days to get some answers to some of my questions about open carry in Michigan. It's been a big help. You've answered almost all of my questions, or pointed me in the right direction to find answers. Thanks to everyone postingin here.

    I do have a fewquestions though that I can't seem to findanswers to, or possibly overlooked. I apologize in advance if you've already answered these somewhere else.

    I've been hunting and shooting in Michigan for most of my life, so I have a pretty good understanding of the laws regarding firearms. I've always known that Michigan is an open carry state, I've just never done it. I'm applying for my CPL and should have it sometime this summer.During the process I became curious about open carry. Some of these questions are about open carry and some about concealed carry.

    I know the laws about transporting pistols, but I'm wondering if that inhibits where you can open carry. Can I follow the laws on transporting and take a pistol with me to a location where I would like to open carry, or would I be required to walk everywhere? I'm wondering about that private property part. IfI was to park in say a parking lot of a business would that be allowed? I'm also wondering if I would need the store's permission to do so.

    Also, what about the laws regarding establishments that sell alcohol? I originally understood the law to mean only places that serve alcohol in open containers for consumption, but I've sinceread something that lead me to think that any place that sells alcohol, including stores such as party stores or liquor stores, would be a gun free zone.If I parked at astore that sells alcohol would the parking lot be considered a gun free zone or just the store itself? The short version of what I'm asking is: How can Itransport the pistol to a location away from my home to a public place where I would like to open carry without breaking the laws on where I can transport the pistol to?



    I also have aquestion about concealed carry. I know that I can carry concealed in my own home. The law uses the words "dwelling house", so my question is, does that apply to rental property? If I rent my home and property from someone else and don't actually own it can I carry concealed in the home or on the property? If so, do I need a landlord or property owner'spermission to do so?
    Welcome to OCDO,

    Buz, review this thread and all others, and at least, the first page of the Michigan forum. The first page should answer all your queations/concerns.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/11021.html

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    Thanks. I guess I missed a few. I've found answers to all of my questions. I think I'm gonna give it a try. The transporting part will be a bit of a pain in the a-- until I have my CPL. I'm not sure how I'll beperceived by the general public here. I have never seen anyone open carry where I live. However, if I do have any problems I'll be well armed to defend myself. With knowledge that is.

    Once again I'd like to thank everyone posting in the Michigan forums. You've all been a big help.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    Buz wrote:
    Thanks. I guess I missed a few. I've found answers to all of my questions. I think I'm gonna give it a try. The transporting part will be a bit of a pain in the a-- until I have my CPL. I'm not sure how I'll beperceived by the general public here. I have never seen anyone open carry where I live. However, if I do have any problems I'll be well armed to defend myself. With knowledge that is.

    Once again I'd like to thank everyone posting in the Michigan forums. You've all been a big help.
    Buz, what county are you in?

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    I'm in Monroe County. I live just outside the city of Monroe. I can't say for sure that nobody carries open around here, but I've lived here most of my life and I've never seen it.

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    Buz wrote:
    I'm in Monroe County. I live just outside the city of Monroe. I can't say for sure that nobody carries open around here, but I've lived here most of my life and I've never seen it.
    Well, open carry is becoming more popular and you will see more of it. The word is getting out. Why not be the first to open carry in your area, that way you can say you did it before it was cool.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    I plan on doing exactly that. I'm going to contact the local sheriff's department and city police to ask a few questions, just so I have a general idea of what I'm getting myself into here. Any response short of "we shoot people with guns on sight" shouldn't be enough to deter me. I've heard that Monroe has a local ordinance banning open carry, so I'd like to check into that. I just want to be asprepared as possible because I can almost guarantee that I will have to deal with an LEO. As I said before, I've lived here for most of my life and I've never seen anyone OC in this area, so the response from the general public could very well be a negative one.



    On a side note, I've been talking to my wife about this and she's completely against this. She completely blew my mind. She lives in a house full of guns and knows that I'm getting my CPL soon, but is opposed to me OCing. She even said that she won't be with me the first few times I OC because she doesn't want to encounter any problems while we're out. It seems like my job of educating the public has started before I even carried a single time. Of all the people in the world to support me on this, I thought it would be her. She generally shares all the same views as myself about guns and gun laws. I wouldn't have married her if she didn't.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Riverview, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    46

    Post imported post

    I live in the downriver area and was wondering what would happen if I open carried. The people that I've spoke with pretty much said be prepared to be charged with something..... I personally am not in a position to go through possibly having to get a lawyer right now or I would consider testing the waters. I do have my CPL and carry just about every day. Keep us posted, I'm curious about the reactions you will get.

    Good luck.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    Buz wrote:
    I plan on doing exactly that. I'm going to contact the local sheriff's department and city police to ask a few questions, just so I have a general idea of what I'm getting myself into here. Any response short of "we shoot people with guns on sight" shouldn't be enough to deter me. I've heard that Monroe has a local ordinance banning open carry, so I'd like to check into that. I just want to be asprepared as possible because I can almost guarantee that I will have to deal with an LEO. As I said before, I've lived here for most of my life and I've never seen anyone OC in this area, so the response from the general public could very well be a negative one.



    On a side note, I've been talking to my wife about this and she's completely against this. She completely blew my mind. She lives in a house full of guns and knows that I'm getting my CPL soon, but is opposed to me OCing. She even said that she won't be with me the first few times I OC because she doesn't want to encounter any problems while we're out. It seems like my job of educating the public has started before I even carried a single time. Of all the people in the world to support me on this, I thought it would be her. She generally shares all the same views as myself about guns and gun laws. I wouldn't have married her if she didn't.
    Local ordinances against any firearm restrictions are illegal due to the preemption law of 1990. This was upheld in a MI Supreme Court decision. SO whether Monroe has an ordinance or not they can't enforce it. Most cities have something like that to intimidate the uneducated.

    3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to [/b]Michigan[/b]’s preemption law.[/b]

    [/b]

    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.



    THE [/b]MICHIGAN[/b] SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED[/b]: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.



    Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.



    MCRGO v. [/b]Ferndale[/b]: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    ChuckB wrote:
    I live in the downriver area and was wondering what would happen if I open carried. The people that I've spoke with pretty much said be prepared to be charged with something..... I personally am not in a position to go through possibly having to get a lawyer right now or I would consider testing the waters. I do have my CPL and carry just about every day. Keep us posted, I'm curious about the reactions you will get.

    Good luck.
    Come to the Flint Grinders car show this Saturday (see other thread) and see us all open carry and find out what doesn't happen. You don't have to open carry. We have a few lawyers that will handle any case for a reasonable fee. So far we know of no one that's even been arrested, let alone charged or convicted for lawful open carry. It's hard to convict someone of something that's legal. If in the off chance you were arrested, most likely you would be released without needing an attorney. And if you needed one the attorney would just have to make a call to the prosecutor to have the charges dropped. I would estimate his time would be less than one hour of billable time (generally under $150).
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    Local ordinances against any firearm restrictions are illegal due to the preemption law of 1990. This was upheld in a MI Supreme Court decision. SO whether Monroe has an ordinance or not they can't enforce it. Most cities have something like that to intimidate the uneducated.

    3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to [/b]Michigan[/b]’s preemption law.[/b]

    [/b]

    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.



    THE [/b]MICHIGAN[/b] SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED[/b]: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.



    Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.



    MCRGO v. [/b]Ferndale[/b]: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.



    I understand that (mostly from reading the forums here). I just want to know ahead of time if there is a local ordinance in Monroe so that I know what to expect if challenged by an LEO. I'm not reallyworried about any charges, it's just that I want to be better prepared to handle myself. But thanks again for all the help.

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    Buz wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Local ordinances against any firearm restrictions are illegal due to the preemption law of 1990. This was upheld in a MI Supreme Court decision. SO whether Monroe has an ordinance or not they can't enforce it. Most cities have something like that to intimidate the uneducated.

    3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to [/b]Michigan[/b]’s preemption law.[/b]

    [/b]

    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.



    THE [/b]MICHIGAN[/b] SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED[/b]: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.



    Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.



    MCRGO v. [/b]Ferndale[/b]: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.



    I understand that (mostly from reading the forums here). I just want to know ahead of time if there is a local ordinance in Monroe so that I know what to expect if challenged by an LEO. I'm not reallyworried about any charges, it's just that I want to be better prepared to handle myself. But thanks again for all the help.
    Great. All you need to tell the officer is that all local ordinances on firearm possessionare unenforceable due the 1990 preemption law. You can show them a copy of the law and the Supreme Court decision. If that doesn't work ask for a supervisor.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    Does anyone have a link to a full copy of the 1990 Preemption Law? One that is not a biography or editorial....just the law. I wouldn't mind having a copy to carry with metoo.

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    Thanks a ton!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •