Out-of-stater CC question

Eeyore · Jun 3, 2008

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All,

I know this is an open carry forum, but since there isn't any in TX (which still blows my mind), I figured it'd be OK to talk CC. I'll be working in TX for a few months, and was planning to CC on my VA permit. My question is, "How do I know if an establishmentearns at least 51% of their income from alcohol sales?"

Of course, the easy answer is to err on the safe side and leave the gun in the car or at home, but I'd like to get a better feel for where the line is. Obviously, no-kidding bars are out, and I can generally spot those.

But does your typical restaurant (Macaroni Grill, Applebees, County Line, whatever) qualify?

Thanks

Notso · Jun 3, 2008

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From what I've seen, if they're over the 51% threshold, they'll post a sign saying so. Of course, IANAL, so you might want to check the DPS website to see what they have to say on the subject. If it's a bar, I wouldn't chance it regardless. I haven't seen any of the typical restaurants post the 51% warning signs.

DocNTexas · Jun 3, 2008

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The 51% rule pertains to true bars. If the place is a bar first and foremost, i.e. their primary purpose and crowd draw is for the sell and consumption of alcohol, than it is off limits. If the place is a restaurant that has a baras part of its services,than it is not a 51% establishment and you can carry there.

51% establishments are required by law to post a 51% sign at each entrance, but their failure to do so does not exempt you from a violation if you carry there. It is your responsibility to recognize the place as a 51% establishment and not carry in it, but it is not hard to tell if you are in a true bar.

Basically, if you are there to drink (bar or restaurant), leave the gun at home. If you are there to eat more than nachos, peanuts and chips, your OK.

So, welcome to Texas,carry safely and carry often.

Doc

HerbM · Jun 18, 2008

imported post

Eeyore wrote:

All,

I know this is an open carry forum, but since there isn't any in TX (which still blows my mind), I figured it'd be OK to talk CC. I'll be working in TX for a few months, and was planning to CC on my VA permit. My question is, "How do I know if an establishmentearns at least 51% of their income from alcohol sales?"

Of course, the easy answer is to err on the safe side and leave the gun in the car or at home, but I'd like to get a better feel for where the line is. Obviously, no-kidding bars are out, and I can generally spot those. But does your typical restaurant (Macaroni Grill, Applebees, County Line, whatever) qualify?

Thanks

Quite simple: If you don't see a 51% sign it does NOT.

They are required to post them clearly visible. They will be near the door; they will follow the required signage precisely (never a "no guns signs" that matters); or they will be over the bar or somewhere the whole room can see it.

BTW: There are very few such true "bars" unless you seek out a true drinking establishment. Most serve food or have other sources of income.

Even what looks like a bar in a hotel is almsot always NOT one by the legal definition -- since it is part of the hotel is can never qualify.

The line in Texas is VERY BRIGTH and very obvious.

Practically no 'typical' restaurant qualifies -- no restaurant of any type typically qualifies. I have gone through 10 years and cannot remember seeing any; maybe I did once or twice but it just doesn't happen very often.

You can't carry INSIDE a school building or at a school athletic event, but you can carry on the grounds otherwise.

You need to recognize the 30.06 (optional signs) although there are very few of these either and the 51% sign -- other than that you pretty much don't have an issue except really obvious places like the court house.

The 30.06 sign is also meaningless if it doesn't follow the prescribed wording (down to spelling, puntuation, and even the quotes), size, color/contrast, English AND Spanish (even if you only speak one of them) etc.

Signs that say "no guns" or the slash-ghost-buster sign mean nothing if you are legally carrying on a CHL. Signs on convenience stores or liquor stores that talk about no unlicensed carry are not about you -- they enhance the criminal penalty for illegal carry.

And WELCOME. Enjoy Texas. Stay safe and stay legal.

I'm not a lawyer so check for yourself, but they make us take a test.

Here's the main Tx DPS (Dept Public Safety) site:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlsindex.htm

DocNTexas · Jun 19, 2008

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HerbM wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

All,

I know this is an open carry forum, but since there isn't any in TX (which still blows my mind), I figured it'd be OK to talk CC. I'll be working in TX for a few months, and was planning to CC on my VA permit. My question is, "How do I know if an establishmentearns at least 51% of their income from alcohol sales?"

Of course, the easy answer is to err on the safe side and leave the gun in the car or at home, but I'd like to get a better feel for where the line is. Obviously, no-kidding bars are out, and I can generally spot those. But does your typical restaurant (Macaroni Grill, Applebees, County Line, whatever) qualify?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Quite simple: If you don't see a 51% sign it does NOT.

They are required to post them clearly visible. They will be near the door; they will follow the required signage precisely (never a "no guns signs" that matters); or they will be over the bar or somewhere the whole room can see it.

BTW: There are very few such true "bars" unless you seek out a true drinking establishment. Most serve food or have other sources of income.

Even what looks like a bar in a hotel is almsot always NOT one by the legal definition -- since it is part of the hotel is can never qualify.

The line in Texas is VERY BRIGTH and very obvious.

Practically no 'typical' restaurant qualifies -- no restaurant of any type typically qualifies. I have gone through 10 years and cannot remember seeing any; maybe I did once or twice but it just doesn't happen very often.

You can't carry INSIDE a school building or at a school athletic event, but you can carry on the grounds otherwise.

You need to recognize the 30.06 (optional signs) although there are very few of these either and the 51% sign -- other than that you pretty much don't have an issue except really obvious places like the court house.

The 30.06 sign is also meaningless if it doesn't follow the prescribed wording (down to spelling, puntuation, and even the quotes), size, color/contrast, English AND Spanish (even if you only speak one of them) etc.

Signs that say "no guns" or the slash-ghost-buster sign mean nothing if you are legally carrying on a CHL. Signs on convenience stores or liquor stores that talk about no unlicensed carry are not about you -- they enhance the criminal penalty for illegal carry.

And WELCOME. Enjoy Texas. Stay safe and stay legal.

I'm not a lawyer so check for yourself, but they make us take a test.

Here's the main Tx DPS (Dept Public Safety) site:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlsindex.htm

This is not entirely correct. You are not exempt just because the bar failed to post the proper sign.

PC43.035 (b)(1) does not allow an exemption if the place was not properly marked and does not require such establishments to be marked. (The requirement for these establishments to post is covered under the Government Code 411.204(a) and is a separate offence not linked to the penal code in any way.)

With that said, PC43.035 DOES require one to act KNOWINGLY in order to be a violation and as such, would afford some protection, a defense only, to the charge if it were hard to tell the place was actually a 51% establishment, but in most cases, once you enter the place youcan tell it is a bar, as opposed to a restaurant/bar combo, and staying inside, simply because the place failed to post, is still a violation under PC 43.035.In this case it comes down to did you knowor SHOULD you have know (i.e. would the average person have known under the same circumstances) and if the answer is yes, then you are still in violation.

Doc

Out-of-stater CC question

Eeyore

Regular Member

Notso

Campaign Veteran

DocNTexas

Regular Member

HerbM

Regular Member

DocNTexas

Regular Member