Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Carry as a student at PCC?

  1. #1
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    98

    Post imported post

    "12.19. The use, carrying, exhibiting, or displaying of any weapon (as defined by Oregon Revised Statute 161.015), or facsimiles thereof, is prohibited on or in College facilities, except as provided by Oregon law or when approved by College administration for official College activities."
    http://www.pcc.edu/pcc/abt/rights/st...eofconduct.htm

    "ORS 161.015 (1) “Dangerous weapon” means any weapon, device, instrument, material or substance which under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.
    (2) “Deadly weapon” means any instrument, article or substance specifically designed for and presently capable of causing death or serious physical injury."

    A firearm would fall under that definition as a weapon, displaying (open carry) would be exempt, and/or carrying (concealed) is exempt as provided by oregon law:
    ORS 166.370 exempt via 166.291 (CCW)

    Therefore you would be able to carry as a student, without violation of their student conduct rules. Because you're permitted by oregon law to carry.

    Conclusion: You can open-carry or concealed-carry as a student assuming you have a concealed weapons permit, which would not be in violation of the college rules.

    Am I wrong?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portland, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    21

    Post imported post

    Technically you are correct, no one has wanted to be the test case for it though.

    If you are found with a weapon they could expel you and then you would have to fight in court as it is legal.

    They can't do anything if a visitor is carrying but as a student you are risking being kicked out of school.



  3. #3
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    98

    Post imported post

    I am gunna send a letter and ask.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    I'd love to know what they say, as a PCC student that would be handy information to have.

  5. #5
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    98

    Post imported post

    This is what I came up with, I have sent via email.



    ----------------------------------------------------
    Preston Pulliams
    Office of the President
    Portland Community College
    PO Box 19000
    Portland, OR 97280-0990


    REQUESTING INQUIRY: Are Student's Allowed to Conceal Carry or Open Carry a Firearm?


    I am unable to find any prohibition for a law-abiding student to openly carry or conceal carry a firearm on any College facilities. Therefore my conclusion is yes, a student can carry a firearm, concealed or openly on their person if permitted by law to do so.

    I have included a copy of “State of Oregon Legislative Counsel Committee: Regulation of weapons at educational institutions” with this supporting this conclusion as well references to the “Oregon Revised Statues 2007 Edition” and “B401 Portland Community College: STUDENT RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES Fall 2007” and “B601.1 Portland Community College: FACILITY USE RULES AND PROCEDURES March 2004.”

    Whereas, the only reference of College rule pertaining to carrying and displaying a weapon is:

    The use, carrying, exhibiting, or displaying of any weapon (as defined by Oregon Revised Statute 161.015), or facsimiles thereof, is prohibited on or in College facilities, except as provided by Oregon law or when approved by College administration for official College activities. (12.19. B401 PCC: STUDENT RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES)

    ORS 161.015 states:
    (1) “Dangerous weapon” means any weapon, device, instrument, material or substance which under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.
    (2) “Deadly weapon” means any instrument, article or substance specifically designed for and presently capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

    A firearm as defined in ORS 166.210(3):
    “Firearm” means a weapon, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile by the action of powder and which is readily capable of use as a weapon.

    Herein, a firearm is a weapon under ORS 161.015 and under 12.19 B401 PCC: STUDENT RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES Fall 2007.

    Whereas, 12.19 B 401 PCC: STUDENT RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES Fall 2007 also states, “carrying...or displaying a weapon is not prohibited as provided by Oregon law'.”

    Oregon law only prohibits possession of a firearm on College facilities under certain circumstances:

    ORS 166.370
    (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or
    unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a
    dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building,
    shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony...
    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to...
    (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

    ORS 166.291” is titled “Issuance of concealed handgun license; application; fees; liability” and “ORS 166.292” titled “Procedure for issuing; form of license; duration”

    ORS 166.360 (4) defines “Public building” to include “a public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315, a college or university...

    ORS 339.315 (3)(c) defines a “school” as “...an education service district or a voluntary organization approved by the State Board of Education” Note ORS 339.315 (4)states,possession of firearms or dangerous weapons in or on the site or premises is prohibited under ORS 166.370.”

    Herein, the restrictions under ORS 166.370, while being licensed under ORS 166.291 and ORS 166.292 ,do not apply.

    The other PCC reference pertaining to firearms I have found is:

    "Any activity or function at a College facility that disrupts the operation or activities of the College by preventing the effective carrying out of the operation or activities of the College is prohibited. Prohibited behavior may include, but is not limited to... Possession of a firearm or other lethal weapon" (B601.1 FACILITY USE RULES AND PROCEDURES March 2004)

    This does not explicitly prohibit possession of a firearm as it states behavior “may include.” Hence one would assume a person lawfully in possession of a firearm would not be disrupting the operations of the College.

    Whereas, ORS 166.170(2) inherently denies that a district may enact ordinances against firearms possession and subsequent contrary ordinances are inherently denied.

    “ORS 166.170(2) Except as expressly authorized by state statute,
    no county, city or other municipal corporation or district
    may enact civil or criminal ordinances, including but not
    limited to zoning ordinances, to regulate, restrict or
    prohibit the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership,
    possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms or
    any element relating to firearms and components thereof,
    including ammunition. Ordinances that are contrary to”
    this subsection are void.”


    I look forward to receiving your response, confirmation, correction, or any information to which I have failed to procure pertaining to firearms possession at Portland Community College.




    Respectfully

    ----------------------------------------------------

    http://www.pcc.edu/about/administrat...ies/b601.1.pdf
    http://www.pcc.edu/pcc/abt/rights/st...eofconduct.htm


    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Milwaukie, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    NaT805 wrote:
    Conclusion: You can open-carry or concealed-carry as a student assuming you have a concealed weapons permit, which would not be in violation of the college rules.

    Am I wrong?
    Technically you're right. Unfortunately there are still some schools and school districts that think they can make their own policies regarding firearms even though the ORS clearly spells out that state legislature is the only body that can do that. It was just a couple years ago that Lars Larson went toe to toe with Southern Oregon U about him carrying while on campus. Even though he obviously isn't a student they still tried to blcok him from carrying. He finally set them straight. Sadly the line in the sand isn't as clearly drawn for students. OFF filed a lawsuit but it was dismissed because the judge decided that since the student OFF was representing hadn't actually been expelled yet they had no case since the court said it can'trule onwhat might happen in the future. :?What has to happen is for a student to actually be denied the right to carry, punished or expelled, then file a lawsuit and fight it out in court.

  7. #7
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    98

    Post imported post

    One week no reply.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    its PCC...i wish i was surprised that they refuse to give a response

  9. #9
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    98

    Post imported post

    Two weeks no reply.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    , Oregon, USA
    Posts
    32

    Post imported post

    Anyone have a definitive answer on this one yet?

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    I ignored their misguided policy and carried every time I was at PCC. I carried a Glock 19 IWB @ 4 o'clock and nobody ever knew, so imagine what you could do with deep concealment.

  12. #12
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    White City, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    2,234

    Post imported post

    PMartin wrote:
    Anyone have a definitive answer on this one yet?
    Yup.

    It's legal, no gray area, no wiggle room. It IS LEGAL

    However, they WILL cause your life to be hell and you will have to go to court and FIGHT for your rights.

    USMC veteran Jeff Maxwell is currently fighting this fight in the courts with the Oregon Univ system. If you're not familiar check the OFF site and look for the story. ALL CHARGES were dropped by the DA but the school expelled him and last I heard he was informed he "wasn't welcome in any Oregon University system school".

    This is a big one for me as I should be attending JC this or next semester and I fulling intend to carry concealled.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    34

    Post imported post

    We-the-People wrote:
    PMartin wrote:
    Anyone have a definitive answer on this one yet?
    Yup.

    It's legal, no gray area, no wiggle room. It IS LEGAL

    However, they WILL cause your life to be hell and you will have to go to court and FIGHT for your rights.

    USMC veteran Jeff Maxwell is currently fighting this fight in the courts with the Oregon Univ system. If you're not familiar check the OFF site and look for the story. ALL CHARGES were dropped by the DA but the school expelled him and last I heard he was informed he "wasn't welcome in any Oregon University system school".

    This is a big one for me as I should be attending JC this or next semester and I fulling intend to carry concealled.
    I went to the rally at the capitol for Jeff. He is a great guy! The police department kept his derringer for two weeks. When they gave it back to him, they had broken it so the barrels would not latch anymore.

    I am also going back to school this fall and I am going to carry concealed. I sure would like to test the waters at Mt. Hood Community College but time is not on my side anymore.

  14. #14
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    White City, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    2,234

    Post imported post

    If they "ding" me, they're going to have a problem. 1) because I will be absolutely sure that I am 100% legal. 2) because I have the laws pretty well memorized (applicable ones that is) as well as printed out to keep on me. 3) I know my rights within the law and they will NOT search me with consent so there will be several civil right sviolations if they do and a few if they don't (search me illegally that is).
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    The way I see it, your life is more important than some ignorant school administrator's need to feel good by enacting these detrimental rules. It would be in their best interest to acknowledge the legitimacy of CHL permits and allow their students to carry, else they be met with a huuuuuuge civil suit if a chl permit holder was assaulted and injured at school but was unable to defend themselves bc they were unarmed bc of this rule. I'm sure I don't have to say this but there are CHL holders that do carry while at PCC (although not enough). Concealed means concealed and they won't know you have it. My life is a hell of a lot more important than their "feel good rules".

    Looks like its been a year with no response from administration regarding the letter that was sent. I'm still really curious to their reply.

  16. #16
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    White City, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    2,234

    Post imported post

    According to Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC) there is no SCCC campus leader at PCC. In fact most of Oregons schools do not have an SCCC campus leader.

    Come on folks, if you're attending college of junior college get an SCCC chapter established at your school whether officially sanctioned by the school or not. I've already contacted both SCCC and student government about doing just that. I just have to decide if I want to continue wearing my empty holster in protest and advocating legal carry period (open or concealed) or start working with the SCCC folks as a capus leader. They are very narrowly focused on lawful concealed carry and as an officer you can't advocate any other lawful (or unlawful of course) means of carry.

    I'm still thinking about it and carrying the empty holster on campus.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    If there is enough interest, I would definitely be interested in working with others in getting a SCCC chapter organized at PCC. I'm not sure if I'm available for a leadership position as I'm taking 20 hours and already an officer of another club and active with PTK, but I would definitely do anything I could to get a chapter going. I know there are many of us in the Criminal Justice program that are strong supporters of SCCC.

  18. #18
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    White City, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    2,234

    Post imported post

    Well ask around in your CJ courses. You may even know a pro 2A faculty member that may know of other students.

    I'll be taking 12 credits this quarter (my first) and it seems to me to not be very much in the way of classes, just 1 each day. I've been told 16 is a crushing load and 20 would be undoable. Being a new student I'll start with 12 and see.

    PM me about the workload with 20 hours if you would.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  19. #19
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    White City, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    2,234

    Post imported post

    Well I fired off a message to PCC regarding their new "no tobacco use on campus" policy and also mentioned the firearms policy.

    I thought I was simply writing to some "tobacco nazi" junior staff member but received a reply from the Dean of Student Development at PCC Cascade, Linda Reisser.

    I've removed the paragraphs about the tobacco and only put in her reply on the firearms issue and posted it below. Any PCC students care to e-mail her for a written clarification?

    BEGIN QUOTE OF HER REPLY

    Regarding your comments about our rules on firearms, our current PCC Code of Student Conduct complies with state law (note the boldfaced phrase):



    The use, carrying, exhibiting, or displaying of any weapon (as defined by Oregon Revised Statute 161.015), or facsimiles thereof, is prohibited on or in College facilities, except as provided by Oregon law[/b] or when approved by College administration for official College activities.





    Linda Reisser

    Dean of Student Development, PCC Cascade

    END QUOTE OF HER REPLY
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •