Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Cutting a rifle down into a pistol....

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    So, someone mentioned in another thread that a pistol that fired 7.62x54R would be "one hell of a pistol!"

    So that got me thinking, bolt-action aside, what are the legalities and practicalities of chopping a rifle down and making it into an actual pistol?

    I mean, you can get AR-pistols, what about making or otherwise acquiring one made from a different type of rifle?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    3,047

    Post imported post

    I'd assume it would be the same ATF process as sawing-off a shotgun.

    Hehe, a Mosin Nagant pistol... a pistol that actually uses a "clip".



  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Dallas, TX, ,
    Posts
    496

    Post imported post

    imperialism2024 wrote:
    I'd assume it would be the same ATF process as sawing-off a shotgun.

    Hehe, a Mosin Nagant pistol... a pistol that actually uses a "clip".

    Not quite. It changes the class of firearm from a rifle to a handgun, and an ATF form similar to 4473 must be filed and you have to be cleared to own a handgun in terms of both State law and Federal prohibition.

    It's closer to buying an AK pistol and putting a shoulder stock on it; it's now no longer a pistol but a rifle and the ATF has said they have to know about such changes in class.

    Now what confuses me is that you can buy a Mossberg Persuader and it'll come with both the stock and the cruiser grip (stockless pistol grip), and no paperwork is required to switch between them. Nor is any paperwork required to install a tac stock (it may be illegal to do so such as in California, but that's a different hornet's nest).

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    Well, if there's no record of purchase for it, how would the ATF know I didn't buy it as a pistol, though?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    Double post! Woo!

    Apparently, those pesky Russians beat me to the punch on this idea.

    Meet the Obrez Pistol.

    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Dallas, TX, ,
    Posts
    496

    Post imported post

    AbNo wrote:
    Well, if there's no record of purchase for it, how would the ATF know I didn't buy it as a pistol, though?
    How did you buy it? If your buy was FTF, how did the seller get it in the first place? If that gun was everimported or sold through an FFL, there is ATF paperwork somewhere with the serial number of that weapon stating itwas, at that point,a rifle. The ATF would thentrack buyers from there untilthey found someone who couldn't prove it was still a rifle and wasn't willing to roll over.The only waythe BATFE has absolutely no paperwork available to it on this gunis if it were smuggled into the U.S. and sold FTF ever since. That is extremely unlikely.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    Interesting.

    Still, I wonder what the restrictions are on doing this.

    More of a prject idea, of course.

    I love "Hey, I wonder what it would take to do this."
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    AR Pistols are registered as.... Pistols.


    You cannot shorten the barrel on a standard AR rifle or attach a short barrel upper to the AR lowerwithout first requesting the ATF for permission to manufacture a SBR or Short Barrel Rifle.

    But for $200.... you can do it.

    Just remember that you can add a pistol grip to the fore end of a rifle but NOT a pistol. Adding one to the rail of your pistol is a felony and you will get $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.... Unless.... you pay a tax to the ATF. I believe it is $5.00 for making an AOW or Any Other Weapon.


  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    A bit of info:

    http://elite-tactical.com/aow.html

    26 USC 5845(e) Any other weapon

    The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

    SEE LINK

  10. #10
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    Hehe, I stand by my original statement,

    That would be one hell of a handgun!

    I can't believe they actually made one.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    3,047

    Post imported post

    thx997303 wrote:
    Hehe, I stand by my original statement,

    That would be one hell of a pistol!

    I can't believe they actually made one.
    Well... this is from the same country where we get the Saiga-12. Where engineers thought "How do we make the AK-47 better? Ah-ha! Chamber it for 12-gauge!" Doesn't surprise me too much



    ETA: Now the real question is, AbNo, when you complete your Mosin Nagant pistol, where are you going to open carry it?

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Tennessee, ,
    Posts
    695

    Post imported post

    this is what I have learned from my personal research into the subject. the only reason that AR pistols aren't considered SBRs is the fact that the factory didn't design them to be fired from the shoulder. according to §5845., a rifle is classified as:

    The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.

    Basically, if it was classified as a rifle by the factory, no matter what you do to it, it's still a rifle.

    now since a pistol isn't covered by teh NFA, except as an exemption( but never fear, teh GCA and other federal laws still exist to infringe upon our rights), then exactly what is a pistol is a little cloudier. since an AR pistol wasn't designed from teh factory to be shoulder fired, it is neither a rifle, an AOW, or a "firearm" in the NFA sense of teh word.

    the catch .22 is taht If you were to put a stock on it, or the forward pistol grip thet LEO mentioned, then according to teh cited law, it has been re-designed as a rifle, and therefore subject to the SBR laws.

    basically, a rifle can't be converted into a pistol ( without feeding the IRS) but a pistol can easily be converted into a rifle.

    btw Springerxd, unless I'm mistaken, AR pistols aren't classified as AOWs since they have a rifled bore ( therefore not a sbs) and they weren't designed to fire from teh shoulder, therefore not an SBR. theweapons posted are considered AOWs because they have a smooth bore. now as mentioned earlier, the forward pistol grip would make them an AOW because it is a rifle accessory.

    got a headache yet? I get one every time I have to read through the god-forsaken thing.

  13. #13
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lehi, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,716

    Post imported post

    It seems like it is going to be hard, and like I said before, it will make a huge fireball.

    That fireball would probably be pretty helpful in stopping an assailant.

    You give him one good size hole, and third degree burns around it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •