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Thread: Carry on MSU Campus

  1. #1
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    I work on Michigan State's Campus and was aware a long time ago that the university's board of trustees enacted a local ordinance restricting firearms on campus.

    (EDIT - Add URL) http://trustees.msu.edu/ordinances/o...ces_sec18.html

    After reading so much of the forums here, I see that due to the pre-emptionlaw local ordinances aren't legal to enact (form venator's post):

    3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigan’s preemption law. In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state. THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse. MCRGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.
    So, although I understand that it is unlawful for local governments to enact ordinances... is this one enforcable or not? Is MSU correct in keeping this ordinance on their books because they are private property for some reason? To my knowledge it's a public institution funded with yours and my tax-payers dollars funneled through the state of michigan. It's a land-grant univeristy, and a fine one at that I mist say... but does this ordinance 'hold water'?

    -Opinions please!

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    I would like to say too that due to the fact I work in an educational environment I am sensitive to the fact that there are teriible human beings that have targeted educational institutions for mass shootings, and I am sensitive to the fact that these events have unfortunately occured... but that shouldn't mean we should give up our unalienable and most fundamental constitutional rights...

    Referencing these recent school shootings:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_...able_shootings

    I would rather focus on whether we should be allowed to carry or not and wouldn't like to focus on why we should or should not carry on campuses. There are a lot of reasons why and potentially why not, but I think all of those are addressed in posts like these:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/7507.html

    Thanks for staying to the MSU Example though.

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    shox rox ice wrote:
    I work on Michigan State's Campus and was aware a long time ago that the university's board of trustees enacted a local ordinance restricting firearms on campus.

    (EDIT - Add URL) http://trustees.msu.edu/ordinances/o...ces_sec18.html

    After reading so much of the forums here, I see that due to the pre-emptionlaw local ordinances aren't legal to enact (form venator's post):




    3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigan’s preemption law. In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state. THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse. MCRGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.
    So, although I understand that it is unlawful for local governments to enact ordinances... is this one enforcable or not? Is MSU correct in keeping this ordinance on their books because they are private property for some reason? To my knowledge it's a public institution funded with yours and my tax-payers dollars funneled through the state of michigan. It's a land-grant univeristy, and a fine one at that I mist say... but does this ordinance 'hold water'?

    -Opinions please!
    Shox, several of us here have done quite a bit of research on this-OC and/or CC on U of M, WSU and MSU Campus'. At this point in time, I would strongly recommend NOT carrying-in any method-at these universities. IMHO, at the very least,we needAG opinion on this matter...which, in any attempt,I doubt we'll get.

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    On a related note, the cops at WMU took a legal by law but not school rules weapon from my brother, and within a few days gave it right back. I think the state colleges are aware that they don't have a legal leg to stand on, so they talk tough with the rules, even though they quietly won't enforce them. What it will take is a really gutsy or really stupid move that gets viciously fought with good attorneys, then we might get non infringed on lawful carry on the state college campuses. We just need some case law, or as was noted a much less likely AG opion.
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    Some, but not all, Michigan universities are above the law. Really. UM, MSU and WSU are "constitutional corporations" and thus don't always have to follow state law. Transgressing a UM regulation could be a crime.

    § 5 University of Michigan, Michigan State University, Wayne State University; controlling boards.

    Sec. 5. The regents of the University of Michigan and their successors in office shall constitute

    a body corporate known as the Regents of the University of Michigan; the trustees of Michigan

    State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the

    Board of Trustees of Michigan State University; the governors of Wayne State University and

    their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Governors of

    Wayne State University. Each board shall have general supervision of its institution and the

    control and direction of all expenditures from the institution’s funds. Each board shall, as often

    as necessary, elect a president of the institution under its supervision. He shall be the principal

    executive officer of the institution, be ex-officio a member of the board without the right to vote

    and preside at meetings of the board. The board of each institution shall consist of eight

    members who shall hold office for terms of eight years and who shall be elected as provided by

    law. The governor shall fill board vacancies by appointment. Each appointee shall hold office

    until a successor has been nominated and elected as provided by law.

    History:
    Const. 1963, Art. VIII, §5, Eff. Jan. 1, 1964.

    Former Constitution:
    See Const. 1908, Art. XI, §§3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 16.

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    I definitely see what you're saying... I don't think at this point in time I'd be willing to be the example because I'm not sure what the consequences would be with my job. The issue being that it's a public university, and not private property...

    The other issue being timing, I'm not sure when the b est time would be to do it given that there have recently been school shootings and they are (and should be) taken very seriously. I don't think events like those should be the dictator to prohibit our hallowed constitutional right, nor the state laws - because it sets a dangerous precedent.

    I think if I did do it, I'd better be prepared to lose my job over it and I'm just not willing to do that at this time. What about licensed concealed carry? Same thing or different rules apply? Sorry if I'm repeating questions that others have already asked a million times... I'm still pretty new to all of this.

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    Should be in the employee handbook ??? No weapons is no weapons, concealed or otherwise.......

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    apjonas wrote:

    Some, but not all, Michigan universities are above the law. Really. UM, MSU and WSU are "constitutional corporations" and thus don't always have to follow state law. Transgressing a UM regulation could be a crime.

    Well... whether they are or whether they aren't, they sure think they are. Creating local ordinances to trump state laws, and just totally disregarding state laws is something they're very good at doing. Anyone remember Proposal 2 - banning affirmitive action? They fought that tooth and nail and still haven't stopped using it. They're not supposed to use it for admissions purposes anymore, but...

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    shox rox ice wrote:
    I work on Michigan State's Campus and was aware a long time ago that the university's board of trustees enacted a local ordinance restricting firearms on campus.

    (EDIT - Add URL) http://trustees.msu.edu/ordinances/o...ces_sec18.html

    After reading so much of the forums here, I see that due to the pre-emptionlaw local ordinances aren't legal to enact (form venator's post):



    3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigan’s preemption law. In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state. THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse. MCRGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.
    So, although I understand that it is unlawful for local governments to enact ordinances... is this one enforcable or not? Is MSU correct in keeping this ordinance on their books because they are private property for some reason? To my knowledge it's a public institution funded with yours and my tax-payers dollars funneled through the state of michigan. It's a land-grant univeristy, and a fine one at that I mist say... but does this ordinance 'hold water'?

    -Opinions please!
    On public colleges the only place where concealed carry is illegal is in a classroom and a dorm. The school may have a POLICY on the possession of firearms by students and staff, whereas a violation could result in asuspension or termination. No firearm laws would be broken, unless you were in a classroom or a dorm. Non staff/students can have a firearm on campus (except concealed in a classroom or dorm). By classroom I believe they mean the actual classroom, so you could be in a building that has classrooms (in the Halls, break-room, study lounge, etc.), just not in the actual classroom. By dorm I believe they mean in any part of the dormitory building, not just in a dorm room (living quarters). Private colleges can prohibit firearms and you could be charged with trespassing if asked to leave and you do not.

    There is some question in regards to Wayne State, University of Michigan and Michigan State university because these schools are mentioned in the State constitution which may give them more rights than others schools. An AG opinion is needed, or some statute created to address this. Some legal professionals state that these three university have to follow state law and the preemption law. Others say no, they do have more power than other universities.

    My opinion is that if you were not a student or staff and you carried concealed you would not have a problem, same for driving through campus with a firearm in your vehicle. My advice is to call the University's legal representatives, those that prosecute campus violations and get their opinion or policyon enforcing any firearmprohibition in regards to campus ordinances. I've been told that the prosecutors for these 3 universities are not going to prosecute firearm ordinances in regards to open or concealed carry, because they don't want to open this up and have a ruling made in favor ofpreemption. Again this only deals with the three universities funded via the State constitution. I would say for non-students and non-staff you would be okay in concealed carry, but open carry may have a bad result.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    UM likewise has a ordinance. I would disagree that preemption is applicable since the power of the regents comes from the state constitution which is higher law than statute. But feel free to test it.

    UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN BOARD OF REGENTS

    ARTICLE X

    WEAPONS

    Section 1. Scope of Article X. Article X applies to all property owned, leased or otherwise controlled by the Regents of the University of Michigan and applies regardless of whether the individual has a concealed weapons permit or is otherwise authorized by law to possess, discharge or use any device referenced below.

    Section 2. Possession of Firearms, Dangerous Weapons and Knives. Except as otherwise provided in Section 4, no person shall, while on any property owned, leased or otherwise controlled by the Regents of the University of Michigan: (1) possess any firearms or any other dangerous weapon as defined in or interpreted under Michigan law or (2) wear on his or her person or carry in his or herclothing any knife, sword or machete having a blade longer than four (4) inches, or, in the case of a knife with a mechanism to lock the blade in place when open, longer than three (3) inches.

    [EDITED]

    Section 4. Exceptions.

    (1) Except to the extent regulated under Subparagraph (2), the prohibitions in this Article X do not apply:

    (a) to University employees who are authorized to possess and/or use such a device pursuant to Standard Practice Guide 201.94;

    (b) to non-University law enforcement officers of legally established law enforcement agencies or to other non-University employees who, in either situation, are authorized by their employer to possess or use such a device during the time the employee is engaged in work requiring such a device;

    (c) when someone possesses or uses such a device as part of a military or similar uniform or costume in connection with a public ceremony or parade or theatrical performance;

    (d) when someone possesses or uses such a device in connection with a regularly scheduled educational, recreational or training program authorized by the University;

    (e) when someone possesses or uses such a device for recreational hunting on property which has been designated for such activity by the University provided such possession and use is in strict compliance with applicable law; or

    (f) when the Director of the University’s Department of Public Safety has waived the prohibition based on extraordinary circumstances. Any such waiver must be in writing and must define its scope and duration.

    (2) The Director of the Department of Public Safety may impose restrictions upon individuals who are otherwise authorized to possess or use such a device pursuant to Subsection (1) when the Director determines that such restrictions are appropriate under the circumstances.

    Section 5. Violation Penalty. A person who violates this Article X is guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction, punishable by imprisonment for not less than ten (10) days and no more than sixty (60) days, or by fine of not more than fifty dollars ($50.00) or both.

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    The Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO) has a research project addressing the issue of guns on campus, where the question of the "Constitutional Three" schools is addressed. The primary research is being done by law students. Their findings will be reviewed by MCRGO's attorneys, and then packaged for consideration for an Attorney General opinion, if warranted.

    There are two State Senators (Cropsey and Richardville) and two State Reps (Casperson and Sheltrown) on MCRGO's Board of Directors.
    Code:
    NOTICE OF SCHEDULED MEETING
    
    COMMITTEE:	Judiciary
    
    DATE:	Tuesday, June 10, 2008
    
    TIME:	1:00 p.m.
    
    PLACE:	Room 210, Farnum Building, 125 W. Allegan Street, Lansing, MI   48933
    
    PHONE:	Mark Brieve (373-6920)
    Committee Clerk
    
    
    AGENDA
    
    HB 4330 	Rep. Condino	Corrections; parole; requirement of GPS monitoring
    device for individuals convicted of aggravated stalking; provide for.
    
    HB 4453 	Rep. Caul	Crimes; domestic violence; GPS monitoring of
    defendants charged with domestic violence crimes and released on bail; provide for monitoring and notification.
    
    SB 370 	Sen. Richardville	Weapons; licensing; requirement for post-purchase pistol safety inspection; eliminate.
    
    SB 371 	Sen. Cropsey	Crimes; weapons; crime of failing to have pistol safety inspected after purchase; repeal, and eliminate certain other references to pistol safety inspections.
    
    And any other business to come properly before the committee.

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    The understanding I got, from my CCW class, as well as reading the Michigan Firearms laws, the Universities mentioned can pretty much do as they wish in this area.

    Since I live relatively close to MSU, I did call and ask once, what would be my risk, if I took a short cut across campus to get from point A in Lansing to point B in East Lansing. I was told, as long as my stopping point was not on MSU, I'd be fine. But that if I intended to visit someone on MSU, I should either leave my weapon at home, or check it with MSU police for the duration of my visit. They have lockers for that purpose.

    Oh, and don't OC on a bicycle or motorcycle going through the campus, it could have a bad ending.

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    But what constitutes campus? I go to UM A2, and campus is rather... sprawling. Can I walk down state street on the sidewalk? Is there a distance definition?

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    To know for sure, you need one of their maps. That lays out, pretty much what is or is not considered MSU.
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    How does this affect other state universities that are not those three? In particular Oakland University in Rochester?

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    As I understand it, only State universities can make their own rules. The others cannot. However, the state rule against guns on school property would still apply to classrooms and such.
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    As I understand it, only State universities can make their own rules. The others cannot. However, the state rule against guns on school property would still apply to classrooms and such.
    As far as the power to ban guns on campus, the only question is the 3 mentioned in the constitution (MSU, UM, Wayne State). All other public schools including the schools with state in the title are under the preemption law. So as far as state law goes, you can't carry concealed in a classroom or dorm ONLY. Other areas of campus are open to carry. Staff and students are under a policy and can be disciplined by the school for violations. The big question is, and an AG's opinion is needed, is do the big 3 have to follow state law? Opinions vary from attorney to attorney. My opinion is if the big 3 can make laws greater than the state, what stops them from enacting the death penalty for civil infractions, or life sentences for jaywalking? MY opinion is that these three universities can only enact laws that do not exceed state law. But untill we get an AG's opinion this is all up for discussion and disagreement.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    As I understand it, only State universities can make their own rules. The others cannot. However, the state rule against guns on school property would still apply to classrooms and such.
    As far as the power to ban guns on campus, the only question is the 3 mentioned in the constitution (MSU, UM, Wayne State). All other public schools including the schools with state in the title are under the preemption law. So as far as state law goes, you can't carry concealed in a classroom or dorm ONLY. Other areas of campus are open to carry. Staff and students are under a policy and can be disciplined by the school for violations. The big question is, and an AG's opinion is needed, is do the big 3 have to follow state law? Opinions vary from attorney to attorney. My opinion is if the big 3 can make laws greater than the state, what stops them from enacting the death penalty for civil infractions, or life sentences for jaywalking? MY opinion is that these three universities can only enact laws that do not exceed state law. But untill we get an AG's opinion this is all up for discussion and disagreement.
    Well, all we have to do is get one of our elected officials to ask that question. Anyone know of any willing to do it?


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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    As I understand it, only State universities can make their own rules. The others cannot. However, the state rule against guns on school property would still apply to classrooms and such.
    As far as the power to ban guns on campus, the only question is the 3 mentioned in the constitution (MSU, UM, Wayne State). All other public schools including the schools with state in the title are under the preemption law. So as far as state law goes, you can't carry concealed in a classroom or dorm ONLY. Other areas of campus are open to carry. Staff and students are under a policy and can be disciplined by the school for violations. The big question is, and an AG's opinion is needed, is do the big 3 have to follow state law? Opinions vary from attorney to attorney. My opinion is if the big 3 can make laws greater than the state, what stops them from enacting the death penalty for civil infractions, or life sentences for jaywalking? MY opinion is that these three universities can only enact laws that do not exceed state law. But untill we get an AG's opinion this is all up for discussion and disagreement.
    Well, all we have to do is get one of our elected officials to ask that question. Anyone know of any willing to do it?


    See some of the posts above. Sounds like MCRGO's is working on this. They have been at it for some time, and I don't know where there are on it as of today. So we wait and see if they move on it. But anyone can write there legislature and ask to have them address the question.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  20. #20
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    Venator wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    As I understand it, only State universities can make their own rules. The others cannot. However, the state rule against guns on school property would still apply to classrooms and such.
    As far as the power to ban guns on campus, the only question is the 3 mentioned in the constitution (MSU, UM, Wayne State). All other public schools including the schools with state in the title are under the preemption law. So as far as state law goes, you can't carry concealed in a classroom or dorm ONLY. Other areas of campus are open to carry. Staff and students are under a policy and can be disciplined by the school for violations. The big question is, and an AG's opinion is needed, is do the big 3 have to follow state law? Opinions vary from attorney to attorney. My opinion is if the big 3 can make laws greater than the state, what stops them from enacting the death penalty for civil infractions, or life sentences for jaywalking? MY opinion is that these three universities can only enact laws that do not exceed state law. But untill we get an AG's opinion this is all up for discussion and disagreement.
    Venarator,

    The Michigan state Constitution actually give that right to all universities, in my opinion; if you read the following section.

    The Big 3 (Article VIII, Section 5)

    The regents of the University of Michigan and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Regents of the University of Michigan; the trustees of Michigan State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Trustees of Michigan State University; the governors of Wayne State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Governors of Wayne State University. Each board shall have general supervision of its institution and the control and direction of all expenditures from the institution's funds. Each board shall, as often as necessary, elect a president of the institution under its supervision. He shall be the principal executive officer of the institution, be ex-officio a member of the board without the right to vote and preside at meetings of the board. The board of each institution shall consist of eight members who shall hold office for terms of eight years and who shall be elected as provided by law. The governor shall fill board vacancies by appointment. Each appointee shall hold office until a successor has been nominated and elected as provided by law.


    All others (Article VIII, Section 6)

    Other institutions of higher education established by law having authority to grant baccalaureate degrees shall each be governed by a board of control which shall be a body corporate. The board shall have general supervision of the institution and the control and direction of all expenditures from the institution's funds. It shall, as often as necessary, elect a president of the institution under its supervision. He shall be the principal executive officer of the institution and be ex-officio a member of the board without the right to vote. The board may elect one of its members or may designate the president, to preside at board meetings. Each board of control shall consist of eight members who shall hold office for terms of eight years, not more than two of which shall expire in the same year, and who shall be appointed by the governor by and with the advice and consent of the senate. Vacancies shall be filled in like manner.


    If you review all of our state university ordinances, just about all of them have an all out ban on weapons of any sort. This violates the state constitution, and I have no doubt that the ordinances would fall apart if challenged in court, but that has not yet happened. Read the following from the MSP:
    Mr. French,

    The preemption law to which you're referring can be found in MCL 123.1102. That statute generally prohibits a local unit of government from regulating firearms. However, colleges and universities are not local units of government for the purposes of that statute; MCL 123.1101 defines "Local unit of government" as "a city, village, township, or county." Further, various statutesin Chapter 390 of the Michigan Compiled Laws grant state colleges and universities broad authority to enact ordinances (e.g., MCL 390.5 grants that power to the University of Michigan). Therefore, it appears that a university can enact and enforce an ordinance prohibiting a CPL holder from carrying a pistol on campus beyond classrooms and dormitories (see MCL 28.425o - the pistol free zone statute for CPL holders).

    There are a number of non-statutory preemption theories used by the courts. It is possible that a court or the Attorney General may hold that state law does preempt a university ordinance. However, at this time we're not aware of an opinion holding that way.

    Finally, it's worth noting that there's a difference between an ordinance and a policy. A university policy does not carry the force of law, and likely only applies to students, faculty, and employees. If you are a university employee, you are bound by the policy (MCL 28.425n allows employers to prohibit employee CPL holders from carrying at work).

    Sincerely,


    Sgt. Thomas Deasy
    Michigan State Police
    Executive Resource Section
    714 S. Harrison Rd.
    East Lansing, MI 48823
    (517) 336-6441
    We need to band together and challenge this in a court of law! I have been contacting the AG and representatives in the Michigan legislature, to no avail. I will be contacting MCRGO and the NRA to try and get some support for challenging these unlawful ordinances.





  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Thank you for this info. We really need to get this resolved. I had heard MCRGO's was working on it. But until then we must advise caution when carrying on College grounds.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
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    I agree that caution would be advised. I have attempted to contact MCRGO to see where they are in this, if they are indeed checking it out (it is just a rumor as far as I am concerned, until I see the proof in writing). I also noted that if they are not currently looking into it, and do not intend to, I will take it upon myself (asking for help from others of course). I also offered my services and support, if desired.

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