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Thread: Moving to WA

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    Hello all,
    I'm moving to Washingon from the all-too-restrictive policies of California, to start my post collegiate life at Microsoft. Come August, I will be a full time resident in the Bellevue/Redmond/Kirkland area, and would like to begin the practice of both open and concealed carry, as the situation warrants. While I'm unsure of Microsoft's internal policies, I'll likely be concealed while there, and open elsewhere. Currently, I have a Springfield Arms XD 9mm, though I'll need to get something smaller for concealed carry (well, unless I want to go with the crotch holster from smart carry ). Any preferences among board members?

    A few questions: what is the general advice for open/concealed carry in bars? I know that RCW 9.41.300 prohibits carry in any place where those under the age of 21 are barred by the state liquor board. However, I have a real problem with this if I'm being designated driver (and no problem when I'm drinking - I'm not stupid). Plans of action?

    Further, what holster would you all recommend for a first time OCer? Any particular belt/attire/etc?

    Anyway, I hope to contribute to this comunity in the future as I'm able, but here's my "hello."

    *edit now that I've started work* MS policy is "no firearms" - so no carry here at all. Sigh, hopefully this can be changed, maybe not today or tomorrow, but sometime.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Unfortunately there is no exception for the "designated driver".

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    Congrats on moving to WA! I miss it every day.

    Anyhoo, I'd recommend the Blackhawk Serpa holster for OC. Linkage

    I have one for my XD-45 Service and it works great! Some people say it's no good and you need to get a $125 Safariland or Bladetech, but they're talking out of their asses. The Serpa is only $45, so if you don't like it you aren't out much money anyway.

    BTW, it only took about 5 days (IIRC) to get my hoster from the folks in the link.


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    +1 for the Serpa. I use mine for OC/CC.

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    Tawnos wrote:
    A few questions: what is the general advice for open/concealed carry in bars? I know that RCW 9.41.300 prohibits carry in any place where those under the age of 21 are barred by the state liquor board. However, I have a real problem with this if I'm being designated driver (and no problem when I'm drinking - I'm not stupid). Plans of action?
    Go to resteraunt bars... Usually sports bars... They have eating areas for the whole family, and the only areas restricted to 21 or older is the areas right up at the actual bar counter usually.

    A really good example in Spokane is the "Swinging Doors". About 20 tv's all showing sports, pool tables, great food (not just for a bar) but only restricted to 21+ for about 20 bar stool seats.

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    Welcome to the board and to Washington!

    If an area where alcohol is consumed is off limits to minors, then you cannot carry there.

    As far as holsters go...

    I'm a minimalist kinda guy and wear a level I holster. So I'm the odd duck out here.

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Tawnos wrote:

    While I'm unsure of Microsoft's internal policies, I'll likely be concealed while there, and open elsewhere. Currently, I have a Springfield Arms XD 9mm, though I'll need to get something smaller for concealed carry
    Be warned that MS not only bans carry in any form on company property they even ban having a gun in your car while parking on company property.

    MS has a "Shooting Club" for FTE's and even they are prohibited from having their gun on company property. Unfortunatly, if you work on Campus you really have no choice but to park in the company lot.

    People have been fired for violating this policy. In fact, I've been told that people have even been fired for carrying OFF campus when they were still wearing their employee badge.


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    Regular Member krazichinaman's Avatar
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    Tawnos wrote:
    (well, unless I want to go with the crotch holster from smart carry ).
    Smart Carry works very will if you want "Deep concealment." I can carry my XD45 service in the smart carry if I wear a suit and you will not beable to tell I have it on.

    Many of us like the Blackhawk Serpa holster. As others have mentioned, it doesn't cost too much money and it works really well. I've used it at IDPA, and it works very smooth on the draw, you just need to pratice with it.

    My advice is before you come to WA, buy a nice rain jacket:celebrate

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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    Tawnos wrote:

    While I'm unsure of Microsoft's internal policies, I'll likely be concealed while there, and open elsewhere. Currently, I have a Springfield Arms XD 9mm, though I'll need to get something smaller for concealed carry
    Be warned that MS not only bans carry in any form on company property they even ban having a gun in your car while parking on company property.

    MS has a "Shooting Club" for FTE's and even they are prohibited from having their gun on company property. Unfortunatly, if you work on Campus you really have no choice but to park in the company lot.

    People have been fired for violating this policy. In fact, I've been told that people have even been fired for carrying OFF campus when they were still wearing their employee badge.
    Damn. That sucks - I'll be biking/taking public transit/walking for at least the first month or two there, leaving my car here in CA (and hopefully getting back into shape).

    Shooting club, though? At least that sounds appealing. I suppose then it comes down to the hard choice of concealed carry and risk the job or don't and risk not having it when I need (since I tend to work late into the night, I'll often be coming home ). Oh well, deal with each bridge as I cross it.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Tawnos, if you take the bus, be forewarned that in WA you need to have a valid CPL to be "in a vehicle" with a loaded firearm. It is vague as to whether being "on" a motorcycle is considered "in a vehicle", but I wouldn't risk being the test case, nor does it sound like you'll be using one (not that you'd want to in WA most of the year).

    As for walking or bicycling, you're fine to carry openly without a CPL or concealed with one. Obviously, if you intend on concealing at work (whether with permission or against policy), you'll need a CPL to stay legal.

    I may just be stating what seems to be the obvious to you, but I don't know your background and want to make sure you don't accidentally break the law.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Thanks, I knew all of that from reading this forum and all the relevant statutes/case law I could find about WA.

    I wonder if an officer would try to pull the "you're carrying 'in a vehicle'" if I were biking, since a bike's a vehicle (though I'm not "in" it). Interesting gray areas .
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Actually, I seem to remember somewhere on the forums we had a discussion about this and I think bicycles are considered non-vehicles for purposes of the law. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I'm tired and want to go to bed, so don't have time to go searching for the thread. I know we went over motorcycles and the grey area there, but I'm pretty sure we finalized bicycles.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    just_a_car wrote:
    Actually, I seem to remember somewhere on the forums we had a discussion about this and I think bicycles are considered non-vehicles for purposes of the law. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I'm tired and want to go to bed, so don't have time to go searching for the thread. I know we went over motorcycles and the grey area there, but I'm pretty sure we finalized bicycles.
    Ah, "motor" vehicle. Need CCW for motorcycles, though not bikes (which are vehicles

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.670
    "Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, including bicycles. The term does not include power wheelchairs or devices other than bicycles moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Mopeds shall not be considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.70 RCW. Bicycles shall not be considered vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, or 46.70 RCW. Electric personal assistive mobility devices are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, 46.29, 46.37, or 46.70 RCW.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    a cousin of mine works there, and went through some chastising when he asked his boss if he could CC.

    just going to have to deal with it, i guess.

    i'm up there about once a month for usability studies, what do you do?

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    Tawnos wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    Actually, I seem to remember somewhere on the forums we had a discussion about this and I think bicycles are considered non-vehicles for purposes of the law. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I'm tired and want to go to bed, so don't have time to go searching for the thread. I know we went over motorcycles and the grey area there, but I'm pretty sure we finalized bicycles.
    Ah, "motor" vehicle. Need CCW for motorcycles, though not bikes (which are vehicles

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.670
    "Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, including bicycles. The term does not include power wheelchairs or devices other than bicycles moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Mopeds shall not be considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.70 RCW. Bicycles shall not be considered vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, or 46.70 RCW. Electric personal assistive mobility devices are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, 46.29, 46.37, or 46.70 RCW.
    I think it was determined, in the forums, that a bicycle does meet the legal requirment for a vehicle. 9.41.050 only specifies vehicle. The definition of vehicle you have posted is the correct one but has some very limited exeptions that are not applicable to us carrying.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    Yes, we determined that in the opinion of the forums, a bicycle is a vehicle. Who knows what a cop or a judge will say

    Also, a BUS is also a vehicle, so to ride transit carrying requires a CPL, even if you are not concealed.

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    Don't forget to vote for Dino Rossi when you get up here.

    MS is a good employer even if I don't agree with their policy on guns. Don't screw with your job. And no I don't work for them. However, they give tons to private charity and from what I heard they pay well. Just have fun with the commute.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    nosliw wrote:
    a cousin of mine works there, and went through some chastising when he asked his boss if he could CC.

    just going to have to deal with it, i guess.

    i'm up there about once a month for usability studies, what do you do?
    I'm going to be a full time SDET (software development engineer in test) in the WEX (windows experience) group.

    yes, we determined that in the opinion of the forums, a bicycle is a vehicle. Who knows what a cop or a judge will say

    Also, a BUS is also a vehicle, so to ride transit carrying requires a CPL, even if you are not concealed.
    Ah, but the law prevents carrying in or on a MOTOR vehicle, so we're fine
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Tawnos wrote:
    nosliw wrote:
    a cousin of mine works there, and went through some chastising when he asked his boss if he could CC.

    just going to have to deal with it, i guess.

    i'm up there about once a month for usability studies, what do you do?
    I'm going to be a full time SDET (software development engineer in test) in the WEX (windows experience) group.

    yes, we determined that in the opinion of the forums, a bicycle is a vehicle. Who knows what a cop or a judge will say

    Also, a BUS is also a vehicle, so to ride transit carrying requires a CPL, even if you are not concealed.
    Ah, but the law prevents carrying in or on a MOTOR vehicle, so we're fine
    No. The law states;

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


    The problem with the language is the word "in". My opinion is that if you are operating or a passenger of anything that is considered a vehicle then it is illegal without a CPL.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    No. The law states;

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


    The problem with the language is the word "in". My opinion is that if you are operating or a passenger of anything that is considered a vehicle then it is illegal without a CPL.
    I sure was breaking the law on my boat before I got a CPL... I don't see an exception for when a vehicle is used for habitation as well, although I suppose that would fall under the being able to carry at home...

    As far as carrying when underway I keep a loaded rifle. Wonder how that would play out?

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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    No. The law states;

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


    The problem with the language is the word "in". My opinion is that if you are operating or a passenger of anything that is considered a vehicle then it is illegal without a CPL.
    I sure was breaking the law on my boat before I got a CPL... I don't see an exception for when a vehicle is used for habitation as well, although I suppose that would fall under the being able to carry at home...

    As far as carrying when underway I keep a loaded rifle. Wonder how that would play out?
    It would not even be a factor. A vehicle is defined as capable of being moved upon a public highway. Unless you are living in an amphicar I do see the application of vehicle carrying to boats.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    Tawnos wrote:
    No. The law states;

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


    The problem with the language is the word "in". My opinion is that if you are operating or a passenger of anything that is considered a vehicle then it is illegal without a CPL.
    So does this mean i can have a loaded gun in the car with me (in center console, passenger seat, glove box, ect.) as long as im in the vehicle with my CPL or the loaded gun must be on my body while in the vehicle with my CPL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep Guy View Post
    So does this mean i can have a loaded gun in the car with me (in center console, passenger seat, glove box, ect.) as long as im in the vehicle with my CPL or the loaded gun must be on my body while in the vehicle with my CPL
    If you have the CPL, you can have the gun loaded, unloaded, on your person, in the console, under the seat,duct taped to your forehead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    If you have the CPL, you can have the gun loaded, unloaded, on your person, in the console, under the seat,duct taped to your forehead.
    BUT, if for some reason you leave the gun IN the CAR and you exit THEN the gun MUST be out of sight and in a locked container (I DO believe that a fully locked vehicle WOULD BE A LOCKED CONTAINER.)
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 03-25-2011 at 10:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    BUT, if for some reason you leave the gun IN the CAR and you exit THEN the gun MUST be out of sight and in a locked container (I DO believe that a fully locked vehicle WOULD BE A LOCKED CONTAINER.)
    No, it just needs to be out of sight and the vehicle must be locked.

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