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Clarification

C

carhark

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Feb 1, 2008
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Kitsap & Whatcom Counties, Washington, USA
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It's a mosin nagant actually, 7.62 X 54R. Which brings me to another question: what kind of ammo should I buy (I have some 1950's bulk bulgarian, but would like something more reliable for defense.) The choices are soft point and FMJ. My guess is FMJ would be much better.
 
D

DrewGunner

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Jun 29, 2007
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Seattle, Washington, USA
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carhark wrote:
It's a mosin nagant actually, 7.62 X 54R. Which brings me to another question: what kind of ammo should I buy (I have some 1950's bulk bulgarian, but would like something more reliable for defense.) The choices are soft point and FMJ. My guess is FMJ would be much better.
Click to expand...
Soft points. They will expand better.
 
B

Bear 45/70

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Joined
May 22, 2007
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3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
imported post

carhark wrote:
It's a mosin nagant actually, 7.62 X 54R. Which brings me to another question: what kind of ammo should I buy (I have some 1950's bulk bulgarian, but would like something more reliable for defense.) The choices are soft point and FMJ. My guess is FMJ would be much better.
Click to expand...
The 7.62X54R is ballistic wise,the same (or close enough) to the 30-06 which is enough for bears or cougars.
 
jbone

jbone

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Jun 4, 2008
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Location
WA
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I Don't know if this wibe site is up todate; www.handgunlaw.us

but itsays your good to go in WA State?

[align=left]Washington Must Notify Officer: No[/align]
[align=left]Wildlife Management Areas/ YES RCW 9.41.300 [/align]
[align=left]State National Forests / YES[/align]
[align=left]State Parks / YES WAC 35232120[/align]
[align=left]Road Side Rests / YES[/align]
[align=left][/align]
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
2,558
Location
Auburn, Washington, USA
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DrewGunner wrote:
carhark wrote:
It's a mosin nagant actually, 7.62 X 54R. Which brings me to another question: what kind of ammo should I buy (I have some 1950's bulk bulgarian, but would like something more reliable for defense.) The choices are soft point and FMJ. My guess is FMJ would be much better.
Click to expand...
Soft points. They will expand better.
Click to expand...
+1.

But, coming from a non-hunter with no practical experience, I would be worried about whether the soft point (even in the 7.62x54R) would penetrate the skull of the Grizzly if it didn't hit nearly straight on (as in, a slight glancing blow). As for black bear, it would be fine, I would think.

If I had my m91/59 (or even my m91/30) slung on my shoulder, I'd be pretty confident of protection from anything I could come across in WA.

Though, if I was sure I was going into bear country, I'd definitely bring my m91/30 an upon exiting the vehicle, I'd announce "AFFIX BAYONETS!", likely to the confusion and bemusement of my friends as I add another 16.5 inches (yes, that's exact; it's in my lap) to the length of the rifle. If I have a bear charging me, I don't want to count on being able to make a super-accurate shot on a moving target under that kind of stress and would want the added security of being able to dig the butt of the rifle into the ground and aiming the bayonet into the chest/head area like a pike, slowing it from attacking me while I run.
 
B

Bear 45/70

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Union, Washington, USA
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just_a_car wrote:
DrewGunner wrote:
carhark wrote:
It's a mosin nagant actually, 7.62 X 54R. Which brings me to another question: what kind of ammo should I buy (I have some 1950's bulk bulgarian, but would like something more reliable for defense.) The choices are soft point and FMJ. My guess is FMJ would be much better.
Click to expand...
Soft points. They will expand better.
Click to expand...
+1.

But, coming from a non-hunter with no practical experience, I would be worried about whether the soft point (even in the 7.62x54R) would penetrate the skull of the Grizzly if it didn't hit nearly straight on (as in, a slight glancing blow). As for black bear, it would be fine, I would think.

If I had my m91/59 (or even my m91/30) slung on my shoulder, I'd be pretty confident of protection from anything I could come across in WA.

Though, if I was sure I was going into bear country, I'd definitely bring my m91/30 an upon exiting the vehicle, I'd announce "AFFIX BAYONETS!", likely to the confusion and bemusement of my friends as I add another 16.5 inches (yes, that's exact; it's in my lap) to the length of the rifle. If I have a bear charging me, I don't want to count on being able to make a super-accurate shot on a moving target under that kind of stress and would want the added security of being able to dig the butt of the rifle into the ground and aiming the bayonet into the chest/head area like a pike, slowing it from attacking me while I run.
Click to expand...
Trying for a head shot on a charging bear is a sure way to die. Even Professional hunters don't do it. All a bayonet will do is piss the bear off even more when he gets to you. Bears charge at 30 to 40 mph and when he hits you the bayonet will not even slow him down. I have seen truely pissed off bear take close to 30 rounds from 30-30s, 30-06s, 44 Magnumsand 357 Magnums before it went down. Usually however Black bears are shy and avoid humans, at least from what I've seen in 40+ years of hunting the Northwest. Can't say the same for cats or brown bears. FYI, officially there are no Brown bears in Washington anymore, but if you are up near the Canadian border, don't count on it. Bears don't recognized international borders. My personal anti bear medicine is a Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2 barrelin 41 Magnum with fire sights and full house hand loads with 245 grain bullets 1400+ feet per second for 1050+ foot pounds of energy.
 
D

DrewGunner

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Jun 29, 2007
Messages
363
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Seattle, Washington, USA
imported post

just_a_car wrote:
DrewGunner wrote:
carhark wrote:
It's a mosin nagant actually, 7.62 X 54R. Which brings me to another question: what kind of ammo should I buy (I have some 1950's bulk bulgarian, but would like something more reliable for defense.) The choices are soft point and FMJ. My guess is FMJ would be much better.
Click to expand...
Soft points. They will expand better.
Click to expand...
+1.

But, coming from a non-hunter with no practical experience, I would be worried about whether the soft point (even in the 7.62x54R) would penetrate the skull of the Grizzly if it didn't hit nearly straight on (as in, a slight glancing blow). As for black bear, it would be fine, I would think.
Click to expand...

A bear's head is the last place you want to shot it when it's charging you!! Bears skull, especially the front, are very thick, and they have a pretty big slope to them. Soft point or FMJ, the chances of penetrating are not extremely low. The bullets just bounce off.

You want to aim for the heart or lungs right in the center of the chest. Make it count because you're probably only get one shot off with a bolt action.
 
B

Bear 45/70

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May 22, 2007
Messages
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Union, Washington, USA
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DrewGunner wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
DrewGunner wrote:
carhark wrote:
It's a mosin nagant actually, 7.62 X 54R. Which brings me to another question: what kind of ammo should I buy (I have some 1950's bulk bulgarian, but would like something more reliable for defense.) The choices are soft point and FMJ. My guess is FMJ would be much better.
Click to expand...
Soft points. They will expand better.
Click to expand...
+1.

But, coming from a non-hunter with no practical experience, I would be worried about whether the soft point (even in the 7.62x54R) would penetrate the skull of the Grizzly if it didn't hit nearly straight on (as in, a slight glancing blow). As for black bear, it would be fine, I would think.
Click to expand...

A bear's head is the last place you want to shot it when it's charging you!! Bears skull, especially the front, are very thick, and they have a pretty big slope to them. Soft point or FMJ, the chances of penetrating are not extremely low. The bullets just bounce off.

You want to aim for the heart or lungs right in the center of the chest. Make it count because you're probably only get one shot off with a bolt action.
Click to expand...
If you think you are an modern Annie Oakley you can try for an eye shot.
missingteeth.gif
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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Auburn, Washington, USA
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Agreed, but even if you EXPLODE the bear's heart, he'll still have enough oxygen in his brain to get to you and make you into ground beef before falling dead himself. The only way you're going to survive is if you hit brain or spine... or, if you're lucky, he stops from the impact itself.
 
B

Bear 45/70

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May 22, 2007
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Union, Washington, USA
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just_a_car wrote:
Agreed, but even if you EXPLODE the bear's heart, he'll still have enough oxygen in his brain to get to you and make you into ground beef before falling dead himself. The only way you're going to survive is if you hit brain or spine... or, if you're lucky, he stops from the impact itself.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but the best bear defense is to be situational aware and not get into a confrontation with the damn bear in the first place.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
Agreed, but even if you EXPLODE the bear's heart, he'll still have enough oxygen in his brain to get to you and make you into ground beef before falling dead himself. The only way you're going to survive is if you hit brain or spine... or, if you're lucky, he stops from the impact itself.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but the best bear defense is to be situational aware and not get into a confrontation with the damn bear in the first place.
Click to expand...
Yup! Just like in the city... be situationally aware and don't get into bad situations. I think people let their guard down way too much when they're "in nature" because they are no longer around humans.
 
D

DrewGunner

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Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
363
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
imported post

just_a_car wrote:
Agreed, but even if you EXPLODE the bear's heart, he'll still have enough oxygen in his brain to get to you and make you into ground beef before falling dead himself. The only way you're going to survive is if you hit brain or spine... or, if you're lucky, he stops from the impact itself.
Click to expand...
Shooting a bear in the chest is just like shooting a deer or a human in the chest, sometimes they drop and something they run for half a block.

Google 'bear skulls' and you'll seethat their heads look like the front of an Abrams tank, theres about a 30 degree slope. Their brain sits between their eyes and above their nose. You'd have to hit a golf ball size target thats bobbing and weaving, coming at you at 35 feet per second (25mph), while you hold your rifle off hand trying not to piss your pants. And if you hit it with a 7.62x54, 95% chance it's going it bounce off anyways. When a bear ischarging there is no chance of a spine shot.

Shoot it in the chest and start praying.
 
ghosthunter

ghosthunter

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Jun 8, 2008
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MOUNT VERNON, Washington, USA
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Geez this kid is going to be awake all night waiting. LOL

Blacks like food. Dont leave it around or cook in your sleeping area.

When I am out hiking ,backpacking, I carry my regular cc and a Youth model 12 ga. shotgun with slugs. Since its self defense not hunting. And piss all around your camp. Critters dont like our smell.

I would be very suprised if you had bear problems unless you are camping in a garbage dump in Washington.
 
D

DrewGunner

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ghosthunter wrote:
Geez this kid is going to be awake all night waiting. LOL
Click to expand...
Hahaha! I toned it down a bit too.

Really tho, changes of a bear attacking you are probably lower than you having to fire your weapon in self defense from a human attacker.
 
H

heresolong

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Oct 4, 2007
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Blaine, WA, ,
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just_a_car wrote:
Since you aren't 21 yet, you likely don't have a valid CPL (unless you're a resident of a state we have reciprocity with).
Click to expand...
Our reciprocity statute requires that the state have a 21 and older CPL in order to get reciprocity with us.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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heresolong, I was aware of that fact, but I figured I'd say it generally like that in case our AG and/or legislators did something outside the prescribed legislation... not that they ever would do such a thing. *rolls eyes*
 
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