View Poll Results: Is the NAA belt buckle Concealed or Open Carry?

Voters
20. You may not vote on this poll
  • Concealed Carry

    9 45.00%
  • Open Carry

    7 35.00%
  • Don't Know

    1 5.00%
  • Don't Want to Be a Test Case

    3 15.00%
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: NAA Mini Belt Buckle Carry CC or OC?

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    So I have a new toy, the NAA belt buckle for my NAA Mini Revolver.
    http://www.naaminis.com/custcry.html
    It's purely for fun but the discussion as I wore it tended to whether it was OC or CC. I believe the buckle could be construed as CC as it tends to obscure the true nature of the weapon. What say you?

    Here is the relevant code:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308

    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    longwatch wrote:
    a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
    If you get busted for it.. then you just proved your case! It's OPEN carry! IAMAL but to ME a deceptive appearance is like a CELL PHONE gun.. Looks like a cell phone but is a gun. Yours looks like a gun in a belt buckle and is really a gun in a belt buckle.



    Edited to add pic of a PEN GUN:

    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    ed wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
    If you get busted for it.. then you just proved your case! It's OPEN carry! IAMAL but to ME a deceptive appearance is like a CELL PHONE gun.. Looks like a cell phone but is a gun. Yours looks like a gun in a belt buckle and is really a gun in a belt buckle.



    Edited to add pic of a PEN GUN:
    I had always wondered what would happen if someone who had a gun under their shirt was busted for carrying concealed, only to bring up the point that if the gun was hidden from common observation, how did the officer spot it in the first place

    But I don't want to be a test case either!

  4. #4
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dale City, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,694

    Post imported post

    I can't find the citation at the moment to link to, but I remember reading about someone being charged and I believe convicted. The belt buckle gun was indeed considered CC, being as you said "concealing it's true nature".

  5. #5
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    zoom6zoom wrote:
    I can't find the citation at the moment to link to, but I remember reading about someone being charged and I believe convicted. The belt buckle gun was indeed considered CC, being as you said "concealing it's true nature".
    Yea, it looks like a toy or a piece of jewelry, not a weapon.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    Wow.. I would fight it and don't want to be the test case.. but you guys might be right.. especially if folks get handcuffed for even NOT having a gun.

    http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13636340/detail.html




    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    Sandy is NAA President.

    In a message dated 6/7/2008 5:11:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Sandy@SandyChisholm.com writes:
    Ed - Thanks for your note. It is very interesting how different states deal with issues surrounding personal protection and open/concealed carry. I haven't heard anything from my customers regarding what you're describing. I'm sure you can understand that we would NEVER attempt to offer anyone any legal advice regarding the carry of our products; the laws are so varied and we have no legal skills to share. "Please consult your attorney" as there is absolutely nothing we can say on this matter. I appreciate your understanding. - Sandy
    ----- Original Message ----- From: ed To: wayne@northamericanarms.com ; sandy@northamericanarms.com Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 4:54 PM Subject: Concealed in plain view?
    Hi Wayne & Sandy- In Virginia we can OC (Open Carry) a firearm and walk down the street. To CC (Concealed Carry) You must have a permit and also MUST OC when in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Have you heard of any customers of yours that have had problems wearing a belt buckle with a mini because the police said the buckle "hid the true nature" of the firearm? Thanks, Ed Here is the relevant VA code:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308

    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    I never even thought to ask NAA, but its cool the president replied. Still nothing confirmed either way IMHO.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Well, if you have a CHP it is a non issue except when in a restaurant that servers alcohol.


    There are belt holsters for those http://www.naaminis.com/mr_hol.html


    I would try and make one before purchasing one, those belt slots look small.

    I like the new NAA Pug and will be getting one soon.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    just got this e-mail too:

    In a message dated 6/9/2008 11:14:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jennifer@naaminis.com writes:

    I know from a similar law in Florida, that as long as you do not let your shirt cover the buckle- you are OC. If the shirt covers the buckle you are CC- and would then need the permit.

    Jennifer Plante
    North American Arms
    1-800-821-5783 x 211
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  11. #11
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    ed wrote:
    just got this e-mail too:

    In a message dated 6/9/2008 11:14:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jennifer@naaminis.com writes:

    I know from a similar law in Florida, that as long as you do not let your shirt cover the buckle- you are OC. If the shirt covers the buckle you are CC- and would then need the permit.

    Jennifer Plante
    North American Arms
    1-800-821-5783 x 211
    Don't see as that answers anything as IIRC Open Carry is illegal in Florida. So basically if you have this in Florida you have to have a permit to conceal and must not let the gun show at all.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NORFOLK, ,
    Posts
    124

    Post imported post

    Something is jingling bells in my head about it being in the AOW category.....kinda like the old "shooting wallets" that were made for the high standard .22 deringers. Neither one by itself flagged a violation, but put 'em together and you have an AOW. Can anybody validate/invalidate this?

    As to your poll, one things for sure.... if my shirt wasn't covering it up my belly certainly would......I'd need a permit in EITHER case here!



  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    A disguised weapon that can be fired in that state would be an AOW. The NAA walet holsters are out there but it doesn't seem worth it to make the effort to register one.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •