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Thread: Police called at TJMaxx, stopped by government agent...

  1. #1
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    ...government agent was an angry Marine, Police dispatcher told him it was completely legal, management was indifferent because they didn't know store policy.

    As I was walking to pay at the Fairfax TJMaxx today (10300 Main St., Fairfax) I was stopped by the manager on duty who was a very nice older woman. She said that there have been complaints about my firearm (I'd been in the store with the g/f for about an hour already) and she'd like me to conceal it because I was breaking the law. I informed her it wasn't against the law, and if I was carrying against store policy I'd gladly leave. She mumbled something and kinda dropped it and walked away to talk to the guy who was complaining.

    He was a 250lb jacked up Marine who got pissed when the lady told him whatever she told him. He immediately walks over to me and says, "You know that's illegal, where is your concealed permit?" I said it's not illegal to open carry, it's not against the law, and I have a permit but I'm not going to show you. He then pulled his wallet out, showed me a Marine identification card and said "I'm a government agent, let me see your identification and permit" (I doubt he was anything more than an enlisted guy or an officer at most, neither of which have jurisidction to demand ID. I told him I wasn't going to show him anything, and if he'd like to get an officer involved I'd be happy to wait around. He stormed about 10 feet away and called 911. He took off right after (of course).

    I talked to the manager again, explaining the law of firearm carry to her and asking again if it was against policy and if it was, I'd gladly leave before paying for my stuff and my g/f's. She said honestly she wasn't sure about store policy and said she wasn't asking me to leave. I left my phone # and name and asked her to call me after she talked to corporate, and she said she would. I told her I was going to wait outside for the responding officer (just in case, and to clear things up).

    About 25 mins later, nobody showed up, so I called the non-emergency line, explained I was open carrying and someone called on me, and asked if an officer was dispatched. He said no, he was the person who fielded the original call and made sure to ask whether or not I was brandishing or acting dangerously in any other fashion. After the guy begrudgingly said no, he said he told the caller that it was fully legal and well within my rights. I thanked him for his time and left to smiles and a good feeling that this is the way things should be.

    I was just a little miffed that the Marine lied "pulled rank" to try and intimidate me, and then left in a huff leaving me with the impression that an officer had been dispatched. Ah well, a win's a win. I'll post back when I hear from the manager back about store policy.
    -Unrequited

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    unrequited wrote:
    He then pulled his wallet out, showed me a Marine identification card and said "I'm a government agent, let me see your identification and permit" (I doubt he was anything more than an enlisted guy or an officer at most, neither of which have jurisidction to demand ID.
    It would have been nice to look at the ID long enough get the guy's name, rank, and service - maybe even SSN - then afterwards make a complaint against this guy to his service for accosting you under color of authority of his military status - which means nothin' except that he works for you as a citizen.

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    And the end of the night, staring at the ceilingat nighty-nites,you felt good..didn't you! I did, too....Louisiana

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    (chuckle)

    Good job, Unrequited!

    For anybody else who experiences this sort of thing, I like Mike's idea of getting identity particulars and informing the knucklehead's CO or localLE. What an embarrassment to the Marines.

    Anybody runs into any more "angry Marines"just tell them where they can find a bunch of Marines who support OC.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Someone who's active duty in the militiary demanded an ID from you? :shock:This is a first.



    I must say, you handledit very well...

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    Well done! I thought soldiers take oaths to uphold the constitution... maybe one fell through the cracks.

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    You should have called the PD and reported him as someone impersonating a police officer.
    James Reynolds

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    Question is if you could have placed him under citizens arrest for impersonating a police officer because that would definetly change the tables on him but I am not clear if that is possible or not.

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    unrequited wrote:
    ...government agent was an angry Marine, Police dispatcher told him it was completely legal, management was indifferent because they didn't know store policy.

    As I was walking to pay at the Fairfax TJMaxx today (10300 Main St., Fairfax) I was stopped by the manager on duty who was a very nice older woman. She said that there have been complaints about my firearm (I'd been in the store with the g/f for about an hour already) and she'd like me to conceal it because I was breaking the law. I informed her it wasn't against the law, and if I was carrying against store policy I'd gladly leave. She mumbled something and kinda dropped it and walked away to talk to the guy who was complaining.

    He was a 250lb jacked up Marine who got pissed when the lady told him whatever she told him. He immediately walks over to me and says, "You know that's illegal, where is your concealed permit?" I said it's not illegal to open carry, it's not against the law, and I have a permit but I'm not going to show you. He then pulled his wallet out, showed me a Marine identification card and said "I'm a government agent, let me see your identification and permit" (I doubt he was anything more than an enlisted guy or an officer at most, neither of which have jurisidction to demand ID. I told him I wasn't going to show him anything, and if he'd like to get an officer involved I'd be happy to wait around. He stormed about 10 feet away and called 911. He took off right after (of course).

    I talked to the manager again, explaining the law of firearm carry to her and asking again if it was against policy and if it was, I'd gladly leave before paying for my stuff and my g/f's. She said honestly she wasn't sure about store policy and said she wasn't asking me to leave. I left my phone # and name and asked her to call me after she talked to corporate, and she said she would. I told her I was going to wait outside for the responding officer (just in case, and to clear things up).

    About 25 mins later, nobody showed up, so I called the non-emergency line, explained I was open carrying and someone called on me, and asked if an officer was dispatched. He said no, he was the person who fielded the original call and made sure to ask whether or not I was brandishing or acting dangerously in any other fashion. After the guy begrudgingly said no, he said he told the caller that it was fully legal and well within my rights. I thanked him for his time and left to smiles and a good feeling that this is the way things should be.

    I was just a little miffed that the Marine lied "pulled rank" to try and intimidate me, and then left in a huff leaving me with the impression that an officer had been dispatched. Ah well, a win's a win. I'll post back when I hear from the manager back about store policy.
    I've OCed at the TJMaxx here in the West Valley Area (Jordan Landing) and they didn't mind if recall correctly the Manager and the associates working there were all happy and talking about the legality of AFTER I was asked about it. It was a pleasant experience and my wife was happy and smiling:celebrate



    TJ

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    sectorsight wrote:
    Well done! I thought soldiers take oaths to uphold the constitution... maybe one fell through the cracks.
    Yeah, thats one of the reasons I got out....watching absolute idiots, who had no idea what the constitution really means, re-enlisting and swearing to uphold it. Anyway I'm not at all surprised that a member of the military would try to pull that crap. There's a lot of not so intelligent folks that get into the military, then think they're ID gives them power and authority. On top of that, I'm sure the vast majority of military personnel stationed in VA did not grow up there, so there's a good chance he came from an area where having a gun in public was illegal.

    All in all you handled yourself very well. Like others have said, it's really too bad you didn't get enough info to identify the guy . He would have had a lot of 'splainin to do.

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    ProShooter wrote:
    You should have called the PD and reported him as someone impersonating a police officer.
    That's just short of incredulous. Proshooter +1.
    It's close to impersonating.
    Good show on your part! Hooray for OCDO! Brig time for this dude, would have been appropriate! I'm steaming on this one...
    FX.Co.PD & dispatchers are "On the ball". Sorry, I'm still steaming on this one!



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    You did handle that well!

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    unrequited wrote:
    About 25 mins later, nobody showed up, so I called the non-emergency line, explained I was open carrying and someone called on me, and asked if an officer was dispatched. He said no, he was the person who fielded the original call and made sure to ask whether or not I was brandishing or acting dangerously in any other fashion. After the guy begrudgingly said no, he said he told the caller that it was fully legal and well within my rights. I thanked him for his time and left to smiles and a good feeling that this is the way things should be.
    Good to here that the dispatcher did not send someone out since no law was broken. One of the problems is when police come and you are not breaking any law make it seem like what you are doing is not right.
    "Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'"- Phelps Adams

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    ProShooter wrote:
    You should have called the PD and reported him as someone impersonating a police officer.
    I don't see where he ever claimed to be an officer, just a "government agent". While he does work for the government, that doesn't give him any authority to demand ID.

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    My guess is that the "Government Agent" Marine was a P.O.G. ass admin SSGT or the likes... What a ****** bag. I'm a former Marine and am amazed at that, but could believe it from that genre of a Marine.

    Very glad to hear that everything ended as well as it did!

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    FogRider wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    You should have called the PD and reported him as someone impersonating a police officer.
    I don't see where he ever claimed to be an officer, just a "government agent". While he does work for the government, that doesn't give him any authority to demand ID.
    He was personatin' sumpin', and I can guarantee his chain of command would not be too cool a hearin' 'bout it a rollin' down hill from the flag pole!

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    FogRider wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    You should have called the PD and reported him as someone impersonating a police officer.
    I don't see where he ever claimed to be an officer, just a "government agent". While he does work for the government, that doesn't give him any authority to demand ID.
    Exactly!

    When you walk up to someone, flip out your id and ask someone for their id and identify yourself as a "government agent", the implication is that he is a federal agent of some kind and is exercising some law enforcement authority. That would be good enough for me to obtain a warrant.
    James Reynolds

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    I wonder if this is the same idiot that was pulling over motorists last fall. His last traffic stop was a off duty Fairfax County police officer. She said, " really , I'm a police officer too (displayed her credentials) and then asked to see his.

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    Aaargh!!! As a 17 1/2 year member of the USAF, here's my recommendation.

    Immediately ask him to identify which statute you are breaking. When he/she can't answer, tell them you need their name, rank and unit, and the name, rank and contact info of their commanding officer, first sergeant, legal office and Public Affairs unit. Immediatly contact these folks and report the behavior of the member, explain to them what the law is, and offer tohelp brief the troops on local gun laws. The offending troop will certainly have his/her ass eaten for breakfast, lunch and supper, and you may actually get to meet some folks who are genuinely interested in learning something. Contacting the police is also a very good idea, once they get pulled in, the chain of command will follow automaticly.

    If one of my troops did something like that, I'd recommenda minimum of two weeks extra duty, a lot of lectures and reading about gun law and law enforcement as pertaining to U.S. military, and require them to attend, at their own expense, a NRA or state class on gun carry, concealed or otherwise.

    On behalf of the U.S. Military, I'd like to apologize for your harassment and any loss of faith in our armed forces that may have occured. Unfortunately, we too have some ass-hats amongstus.

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    Thanks guys for the support, and I WISH I had quick enough eyes to look at his ID (read: not badge) when he flashed it to me. I had barely enough time to make out the Marine insignia.

    I thought about placing a call for the "impersonating" issue, but the guy who was quite young (25 maybe? 30 at his most), and had his wife and 3-year-old kid with him. Plus he high-tailed it as soon as he hung up the complaint phone call shooting me a dirty look, and from our brief conversation before, I assumed they were sending a LEO to check it out.

    I'm happiest that the dispatcher handled the call to say they weren't going to waste a call on it!
    -Unrequited

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    Citizen wrote:
    What an embarrassment to the Marines.
    Not everybody is smart enough to get into the Air Force.



    Just kidding. Thanks for your service and kudos for the OP.

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    A Marine is no more a "government agent" than I was when I worked for James Madison University as an upper level student affairs administrator!

    Give that dispatcher a cookie!

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    Great OP! More importantly, a great thread followed.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    jack wrote:
    I wonder if this is the same idiot that was pulling over motorists last fall. His last traffic stop was a off duty Fairfax County police officer. She said, " really , I'm a police officer too (displayed her credentials) and then asked to see his.
    I doubt it, I think he's doing jail time......

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    Law prohibits the Armed Forces from performing domestic law enforcement.

    That guy was violating the Constitution he swore to uphold and protect.

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