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Thread: Legal help - City of Wilkes Barre, PA Police pull a Dickson City, then retreat under cone of silence

  1. #1
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    Hey guys! Anyone have the name of a good open-carry lawyer in the Wilkes-Barre area? I was stopped by WBPD last night while walking and they took my firearm. I was told that Pennsylvania doesn't recognize out-of-state permits. They also told me to come in to HQ with my lawyer on Monday to pick up my firearm. Any ideas for a good lawyer? Anyone want to come with me on Monday? Thanks!

    A.J.

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    mystery_man wrote:
    Hey guys! Anyone have the name of a good open-carry lawyer in the Wilkes-Barre area? I was stopped by WBPD last night while walking and they took my firearm. I was told that Pennsylvania doesn't recognize out-of-state permits. They also told me to come in to HQ with my lawyer on Monday to pick up my firearm. Any ideas for a good lawyer? Anyone want to come with me on Monday? Thanks!

    A.J.
    Well, this is disturbing.
    Obviously they are VERY incorrect about the out of state "permits". And no "permit" required to OC of course.

    If you were commiting no crime they had 0 reason to seize your firearm. Sounds like another PD wanting some legal schooling.

    I have your info from your PM and wil call.

    Oddly, on Wed I was standing, talking to someone on the sidewalk, two buildings down from WBPD. Saw probably 6-7 patrol cars go by and no one said a word.



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    wow - another gun confiscation! Don't get the gun - let 'em sweat now - their conduct was totally unlawful.

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    If the story is true........

    The WBPD are idiots for not knowing the laws.

    PA most certain does recognize out of state permits and you do not need a lawyer to pick up your firearm.

    I would walk in their and state you are there to pick up your property. They firearm was seized illegally and anyone refusing to cooperate with you is in violation of the law.

    Of course they will probably blow you off.

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    Steve in PA wrote:
    If the story is true........

    The WBPD are idiots for not knowing the laws.

    PA most certain does recognize out of state permits and you do not need a lawyer to pick up your firearm.

    I would walk in their and state you are there to pick up your property. They firearm was seized illegally and anyone refusing to cooperate with you is in violation of the law.

    Of course they will probably blow you off.
    Not to mention that the out of state permit issue is of no consequence whatsoever, since the OP was openly carrying his firearm on foot.

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    Only case would be if you concealed with out of state permit and was a resident of that state.

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    I've spoken with the OP via phone and will say without pause that the incident is worse than he describes.

    Relevant points are:

    WBPD stopped a man for mere open carrying on his after dinner walk because of a 911 call.

    WBPS, without PC, felony stopped the OP.

    WBPD made numerous and continuing derogatory and foul mouthed remarks during the encounter.

    WBPD seized the OP's firearm and refused to return it. Without PC or legal reason.

    WBPD had made a bad boo-boo.

  8. #8
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    yankees98a wrote:
    Only case would be if you concealed with out of state permit and was a resident of that state.
    Doesn't matter in PA.

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    yankees98a wrote:
    Only case would be if you concealed with out of state permit and was a resident of that state.
    As noted by gnbrotz.

    PA recognizes FL resident and non-resident licenses.


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    Add to the list of boo-boos: Probably didn't give a receipt, either.

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    yankees98a wrote:
    Only case would be if you concealed with out of state permit and was a resident of that state.
    Huh? PA residents CAN carry on out of state CHPs and LTCFs.

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    Statkowski wrote:
    Add to the list of boo-boos: Probably didn't give a receipt, either.
    I think you will be proven to be correctamundo!

    Receipts? We don't need no stinkin' receipts!

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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    I've spoken with the OP via phone and will say without pause that the incident is worse than he describes.

    Relevant points are:

    WBPD stopped a man for mere open carrying on his after dinner walk because of a 911 call.

    WBPS, without PC, felony stopped the OP.

    WBPD made numerous and continuing derogatory and foul mouthed remarks during the encounter.

    WBPD seized the OP's firearm and refused to return it. Without PC or legal reason.

    WBPD had made a bad boo-boo.
    Can't wait to see the crap hit the fan on this one.

  14. #14
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    Two important websites

    Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Code

    http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm



    PA Attorney General Reciprocity page

    http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184



    Are you a resident? If not does PA have reciprocity with your state?


    This is what I would do

    1. Contact the local state Senator or Representative and obtain a copy of the PA Gun Law Book and inform them what has happened.

    2. Take the book to the police station, be sure to take a witness with you, request to see the Chief of Police. Nicely explain what has happened and nicely request that he show you the law, and hand him the book, that does not allow you to open carry in PA. Be sure to tell him/her that you have contacted the legislator.

    3. If that doesn't work request a meeting with him and the Mayor.

    4. After meeting with both without getting your gun back then you contact a lawyer.

    5. Report the incident to Firearm Owners Against Crime FOAC Kim Stolfer (activist@fyi.net). They keep a registry of all these incidents throughout the state.

    Document everything and be sure to have a witness to everything.


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    mombrown1 wrote:
    Two important websites

    Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Code

    http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm

    PA Attorney General Reciprocity page

    http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

    Are you a resident? If not does PA have reciprocity with your state?

    This is what I would do

    1. Contact the local state Senator or Representative and obtain a copy of the PA Gun Law Book and inform them what has happened.

    2. Take the book to the police station, be sure to take a witness with you, request to see the Chief of Police. Nicely explain what has happened and nicely request that he show you the law, and hand him the book, that does not allow you to open carry in PA. Be sure to tell him/her that you have contacted the legislator.

    3. If that doesn't work request a meeting with him and the Mayor.

    4. After meeting with both without getting your gun back then you contact a lawyer.

    5. Report the incident to Firearm Owners Against Crime FOAC Kim Stolfer (activist@fyi.net). They keep a registry of all these incidents throughout the state.

    Document everything and be sure to have a witness to everything.
    The man resides in NJ, and was open carrying on foot, so he needed no license. The police apparently took it upon themselves to seize his gun without cause, andengage him with non-sensical conversation - possibly some kind of sick joke or retaliation for Dickson Dozen incident.

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    Do NOT, under any circumstances, go to the PD without attorney representation.

    Now that they have let you go - you are in control.
    Do not relinquish that control by talking to the same police that illegally detained you and illegally seized your property.

    Step 1) Contact attorney.
    Step 2) Do what your attorney tells you.



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    WOW. Felony stopped him for a legal act? He may end up a wealthier man than he began. Seems PA has a growing problem with law enforcers who do not know the law.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Habeas Arma! Habeas Arma!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    I've spoken with the OP via phone and will say without pause that the incident is worse than he describes.

    Relevant points are:

    WBPD stopped a man for mere open carrying on his after dinner walk because of a 911 call.

    WBPS, without PC, felony stopped the OP.

    WBPD made numerous and continuing derogatory and foul mouthed remarks during the encounter.

    WBPD seized the OP's firearm and refused to return it. Without PC or legal reason.

    WBPD had made a bad boo-boo.
    Everytime I see WBPD, I immediately think it's a radio station. Anyway, Mr. Patriot (or can I call you Pa?) - just to be precise - PC is not the standard for an investigatory stop, RAS is. No, I am not saying the disc jockeys, err, police had RAS - I just wanted to keep the discussion from getting sloppy. I know you know the difference but others may not.

    No details need to be given but by "derogatory and foul mouthed" do you mean terms dealing with carrying a gun (e.g. gun nut, cowboy, assclown) or something really offensive (religious, racial, scatological epithets etc.)? Thought we might have us a "hate" crime to boot.

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    I was only relating what has worked for me. Last year my township manager posted signs on all the township building doorsthat if a person wanted to bring a gun into the building he/she had to report to the police first. There is no courtroom in the building. I got together with the manager and the Chief of Police and was told the signs were going to stay. I suggested at the end he talk to the township attorney who just happened to be in the lobby as I left the meeting. The attorney told both that if they didn't take down the signs I would sue and they would lose 'big time.' The signs were down that day.

    Personally I don't like an inital 'attack' but would rather try to work it out. It was good the signs came down because, they didn't know it, but I was PO'd and on the phone calling an attorney as I left the building.

    Add to it the Chief of Police thought it acceptable to break state law, he pandered to me telling me that at my age I should retire from activism and enjoy my grandchildren.

    I reported the entire incident totwo township commissioners. Three months later the manager was asked to retire. I am still working to get rid of the police chief.

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    No signs either for the Borough of Cherry Tree in Indiana County. And, the Borough Council President carries during Borough Council meetings.

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    Hey guys! I just wanted to give you a quick update on what happened:

    I was out for a walk after dinner (open-carry).
    Wilkes-BarreCity policestopped me because someone called 911.
    My firearm was taken from me.
    I was cursed at and insulted.
    Then I was told that open-carry is not allowed.
    That only police officers can open-carry.
    And that Pennsylvania doesn't recognize any out-of-state concealed
    carry permits.
    They gaveno legal reason for the seizure of my firearm.
    And if I wanted my firearm back I would have togo down to policeHQ on Monday
    with a lawyer.
    I have contacted an attorney and am following his instructions.


    A.J.


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    How is that legal? Let's say I apply for PA permit as a PA Resident and get denied.. I then apply for Fl permit. Now I can carry in PA?


    Mike wrote:
    yankees98a wrote:
    Only case would be if you concealed with out of state permit and was a resident of that state.
    Huh? PA residents CAN carry on out of state CHPs and LTCFs.

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    yankees98a wrote:
    How is that legal? Let's say I apply for PA permit as a PA Resident and get denied.. I then apply for Fl permit. Now I can carry in PA?
    That is correct. Don't tell me this is the first time you've heard of a law or governement policy that didn't make sense.

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    That's because the state police have screwed up illegal database.

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