Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 74

Thread: Frustrating Situation

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona, U.S.
    Posts
    625

    Post imported post

    I hate to come on here griping but unfortunately I was involved in another disturbing defensive situation and this situation has definitely confirmed my speculation that this country is in fact going down the tubes. A brief background of me and my situation is that I live in the somewhat central area of a major city and in a lower-range apartment complex. The rent is cheaper and the square footage is greater because of the area that it is in. With these gas prices and the general tanking of the economy I cannot afford a "nice" apartment so I have to live in a somewhat crummy one. I am a white guy and since I live in the Southwest I am naturally surrounded by Mexicans who are continuing to take over this country. In all fairness, the overwhelming majority of my neighbors are friendly and courteous and nobody ever bothers me here so I hope it stays that way.

    Anyway, so I'm out with some friends until about 3:45 am last night. I had 1 1/2 beers but by the time I left I was quite sober. After a rather enjoyable night, I pull into my apartment complex hoping to go into some peace and quiet. Instead, I pull into my parking spot only to find close to 50 people covering the entire area. I knew something was wrong right away but once I pull into the spot, I couldn't really get out. Turns out as many as 20 men and women were involved in serious fist fights. These fights were moving quickly in random directions and there were about 5 or 6 different fights in progress with 3-4 people each involved. Now I am trying to get out of my car yet I am surrounded by these animals. The fighting wasn't limited to fists and feet because numerous individuals were chucking beer bottles at others as well as coming at each other with them. Now because of the large number of them and I didn't know who was involved and what the hell was going on, the last thing I wanted to do was get in the middle of it. But to top this off, you have close to 30 people just standing around enjoying the show. That's right. Instead of calling 911 or intervening or doing something to stop the violence, they are standing around watching the fights while many of them were cheering, laughing, and egging the others on. Clearly they were entertaining themselves by watching real-life violence. Some of them had bags of chips in their hands that they were snacking on andothers were drinking beer openly.

    I was not in the mood and wanted to safely get to my apartment and go to bed. So I got out of the car with a gun in my hand. I had it out of the holster and walked right through the onlookers and cocked the gun (pulled the slide back) in front of them. This was one of the rare cases where I was in condition 3 and had to convert to condition 1. I continued to walk through them and away from them with a gun in my hand but with the barrel pointing down of course. The nature of the layout and the proximity of these animals required that I go through them to get to my apartment. Apparently the gun trick worked. Once I got past them I heard numerous people yelling "That fool's got a gun...**** he has a gun...he's pissed...did you see that gun" and similar such talk. Once I was in my apartment I could see out the window and all of the onlookers were immediately gone. The bulk of the fighting was gone as well. I had considered calling 911 but I figured if they are all off the property then the situation is resolved at this point. Well it wasn't. 75% of them went off the property and continued the fighting on the nearest streets to the east and west and also on the street to the north. But a few of them were still there. Some of them instead meandered back around and ended up heading towards my front door still beating each other severely and throwing things. That is when I grabbed my shotgun and walked out front with the barrel pointing in the air. They immediately meandered away again.

    At this point I picked up my cell phone and dialed 911 while still having the shotgun in the other hand. I told the officer I was armed and that I don't believe any of them were except for the bottles and they said they had multiple calls and were on the way. Apparently, they were already dealing with the fighting that ended up on the outside streets and then had to come in to deal with what was still remaining on the property. Since I knew they were on the way, at this point I retreated to my apartment. Turns out multiple people got arrested and the entire time this was going on, three people were just sitting in their car doing drugs so they all got arrested as well. Once the officers arrived, I did go back out and watch from a reasonable distance. The officers were extremely POed and were actually cussing and yelling at the Mexicans who were doing this and they made several of them go around the property and pick up all of the bottles and other trash before they put them in the paddywagon. I also wasn't tripping when I heard one of them yell at the cop, "What about that white boy over there (pointed at me) waving his gun around at us." The police officer said, "Good" and then took them into custody. None of the officers spoke to me and were not concerned about my actions. I imagine the police are getting tired of this crap as well.

    Anyway, guess I made a short story long but I had to vent a little bit. Turns out that three Mexican families were "feuding." I am still POed as I write this. I honestly wanted to fire the shotgun in the air but that probably wouldn't get me anywhere. The truth of the matter is that the neighborhood I live in really isn't all that bad. It is a little bit lower income and does have a higher crime rate but it isn't known to be a "bad area" of the city. Regardless, this kind of stuff shouldn't be happening anywhere and it tells me our society is seriously unhealthy. The fighting and feuding never really bothered me. People have their issues. If they want to kill each other, fine, but just count me out of it. The social sickness of it all is that you have nearly twice the number ofwitnesses out there than the ones fighting and they are there for entertainment. It is one thing to watch violence on TV but people should know that it is not real. People were literally standing around enjoying the fighting. If it is becoming the norm for human beings to enjoy seeing others suffer violent attacks, our culture and civilization is in serious trouble.


    ATTN. LAW ENFORCEMENT: Nothing in this thread should be considered to be a legal document of a crime. The material described is not a testimony under oath of events witnessed or committed and nothing said here is a statement of guilt, confession, or an official report. By law, it is considered "hearsay" and no official public statements or descriptions will be made unless under the order of a subpoena and in the court of law. Everything presented here is to be considered "off the record."



  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    806

    Post imported post

    I was honestly thinking you got in trouble with the talk about the country going down the tubes, but I kind of liked the end result honestly. They got exactly what they deserved, and that's a rare thing these days.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Carson City, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    344

    Post imported post

    Remember, you're dealing with a different culture. These folks come from a country with bullfights (bull ends up slaughtered), rooster-fights (censor almost got me!) and it's not unusual to see these Saturday night fights in Mexico. That doesn't excuse it, but I thought I'd chime in, justin case you didn't realize what their culture is.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona, U.S.
    Posts
    625

    Post imported post

    That is why this country is going down the tubes. This country is being destroyed by this culture. It is not just the Southwest, they are infesting every nook and cranny of the United States and filling up the neighborhoods with gangs. I'm all for multiculturalism but healthy multiculturalism. At least with legal immigration, there are controls put in place so that reasonably-sized numbers of immigrants from different cultures and parts of the world emigrate to the U.S. to create a healthy cultural mix. With this endless influx of illegal immigration from the worst economic class of a third world country, it is destroying this country as we know it.

    I don't believe that we as a people should be approving of cultures that are garbage. A culture that promotes violence such as bullfighting and cock-fighting as you mentioned is garbage. It is garbage how these people consider it a badge of honor to kill someone and/or spend time in prison. They get out of prison and brag about the great time they had while they were incarcerated. Certainly this is not something that is the case with all Latin Americans. Many Mexican Americans are hard workers, raise their families, and try to do the right thing. But there is clearly a cultural problem here and if you look at the culture all the way from the Mexican-American border to the tip of South America, there are some serious problems. There are cities in Central America where it is common for murders to happen right out in the open on the street, the police are in on it, and 80% or more of the populace are criminals.

    I don't want to get off track here. As to open carry, I clearly had to utilize it to run off these people. This situation does bring about a serious realization, however. That realization is that there are situations where even open carry or displaying a firearm in a threatening manner is still not a deterrant. When you are dealing with animals who want to go to prison and who even want to get shot so that they can brag about how tough they are, I am concerned that sooner or later there will be a situation, where I will actually have to shoot someone.

    Although society does seem to be making a descent down the drain, some people are waking up to this nonsense and implementing sensible policies. Arizona, for instance, used to have weak self-defense laws just a few years ago. Generally, if you used force of any kind on someone, it would be treated as an assault or other crime, and you had to prove your innocence by using defense as a justification. A couple of years ago, stand-your-ground laws were implemented and the courts here have been taking the side of the law-abiding more than they used to before. Almost every day, I am hearing about a self-defense shooting usually involving someone breaking into a home where the homeowner was not even taken into custody or charged. This might begin to teach some of these gang-bangers a lesson. These gang-bangers have grown up in a society where criminals are coddled and decent people are scared of them allowing thema free reign to terrorize the community. But every time one of their brethren tries to pull something against an armed citizen and ends up receiving a car wash to pay for his burial, one by one it might remind the others to shape up or ship out.

    It is really getting out of control. I happen to enjoy frequenting Starbucks for instance. As we all know, it is a coffee shop that tends to cater towards the middle class. With $5 coffees and the general style of the shop, it attracts working people who want and can afford an expensive coffee on the way to work. They usually exist in nice areas of the city and near offices where people work. As recent as just a few years ago, this is how they used to be. Now, they are full of bums panhandling in the parking lots and even have the nerve to come inside and bother the customers. The Starbucks I go to regularly is walking distance away from million-dollar homes and yet it is full of Mexican gang-banger acting types covered with tattoos, speaking Spanish, and giving intimidating looks. They've had problems with gang-bangers in there flashing switch-blade knives scaring the other customers as well as destroying the bathroom walls with graffitti. All of the employees are not only comfortable with me open-carrying but actually want me to carry openly as a deterrant to these delinquents who they are constantly having to 86 from their restaurant. I actually believe we are going to see a rise in gun ownership as well as gun carry amongst the American public because people are getting sick of this crap. In all reality, I shouldn't have to feel like I need a gun on my hip just to get a cup of coffee at a restaurant. Not to be too cynical but if things don't change in our society and if the economy and general culture continue to decline, it will get to a point of riots in every city followed by a civil war over this immigration issue. If simply going to work or otherwise going about your business requires you to prepare for battle, again our country is in serious trouble.

    I understand that many forum members here are from Virginia and I have read numerous posts where the exact same type of nonsense I have experienced is also happening in Virginia. So again, it is all over the place. It is really really scary.



  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    "So I got out of the car with a gun in my hand. I had it out of the holster and walked right through the onlookers and cocked the gun (pulled the slide back) in front of them. This was one of the rare cases where I was in condition 3 and had to convert to condition 1. I continued to walk through them and away from them with a gun in my hand but with the barrel pointing down of course."

    protector84, You've got the BIGGEST set of B**LS that I have ever heard of. And the Cops just kinda...THUMBS UP...and didn't do ANYTHING TO YOU :shock:. I need to move to wherever you are Man.

    I'm glad you are OK.



    TJ




  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lake Charles Area, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    1,723

    Post imported post

    protector84 wrote:
    So I got out of the car with a gun in my hand. I had it out of the holster and walked right through the onlookers and cocked the gun (pulled the slide back) in front of them.

    Why couldn't you have just walked thru them as a spectator of the fight ?

    I'm very pleased with the conclusion of your story, but I think you made a huge mistake that could have turned bad, quick.

    - Pulling out a gun in the midst of drunk people;

    - Cocking it in front of drunk people;

    - Walking right in the middle of drunk people with a condition 1 pistol;



    Do any of these sound like a really good idea ? I'm just saying I would rather you be able to write more stories like this in the future, rather than a Law Obeying Citizen dies by his own gun in a street fight. Especially when it could have all been avoided.



  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Post imported post

    If you pulled that s*** here you would have been arrested. No arguments, no buts. You would flat out be in jail.

    What you did could have escalted the situation much higher than what it was. If you were worried for your safety you should have stayed in your vehicle until it was broken up, or the police arrived.

    You and other people could have died for your foolish actions. What if someone saw you with a gun out so they decided it was okay for them to pull out theres? Except they used it?

    What if you got hit with a beer bottle, you said people had, and now someone else has your gun and uses it.

    What you did was idiotic. It turned out okay in the end. But it was definitly a stupid move on your part.

    You would be best to remember you should never draw your firearm unless your intentions are to immediatly use it. What you did was a form of intimidation.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    914

    Post imported post

    protector84

    Good job... now ******* MOVE! You live in the ghetto, obvioulsy



    "Training should be geared toward the motivated sociopath. Period. Those who choose to comply - will. Those who don't...will test your mettle. The truth is the training. You can't fake endurance. You can't buy confidence. You can't buy experience. When preparation meets reality, you'll get your experience. Stay safe. Train with integrity...it's your duty; it's your call."

    ~Tony Blauer

    "Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or ******* beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back."


    ~Al Swearengen


  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    uTAH-life member: NRA, GOA, CCRKBA, ,
    Posts
    291

    Post imported post

    To those that jump him for escalation issues-

    DON'T! Not until you've been through it yourself. I have watched my neighborhood go down the tubes in the last year. But like our OP-Piss on 'em! I pay my taxes, bills, utilities, etc.I get up and go to work every morning. The class of folks he's dealing with don't do any of the above! But they're damn straight the first onesin line for the welfare check!

    They deserve no better than what he gave them. I'd give 10 to 1 odds that had he given thema look, or made one comment that any of these individuals took offense to, he'd have been the new target of all three groups.I'd be damned if I'd call 911 just so I could walk from my vehicle to my residence!



    Sorry, normally I don't tirade or hi-jack threads, but a similar situation is causing me untold anguish at present. And as far as the intent of this forum is concerned-

    Neighbors like he's talking about are EXACTLY why my neighbors have seen me OC-ing around the area. Maybe just give them a little pause if any of them figure on hitting my place for drug money thefts.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Post imported post

    41 Magnum wrote:
    To those that jump him for escalation issues-

    DON'T! Not until you've been through it yourself. I have watched my neighborhood go down the tubes in the last year. But like our OP-Piss on 'em! I pay my taxes, bills, utilities, etc.I get up and go to work every morning. The class of folks he's dealing with don't do any of the above! But they're damn straight the first onesin line for the welfare check!

    They deserve no better than what he gave them. I'd give 10 to 1 odds that had he given thema look, or made one comment that any of these individuals took offense to, he'd have been the new target of all three groups.I'd be damned if I'd call 911 just so I could walk from my vehicle to my residence!
    I'm sorry but what he did is illegal in many states. I wish I knew his location so I could pull up the state laws for him to read.

    I would HIGHLY suggest that the OP take a concealed weapons class.

    There was NO reason for him to pull out his firearm and use it as an intimidation tool, and don't kid yourself, that is exactly what it was used for. Lucky he didn't wind up dead. Any one of those people could have pulled out their own firearm after seeing him carrying one and shot him.

    Again. If he was so afraid for his well being, stay in your damn car. Drive around the block a couple times until the police arrived and calmed things down.

    Being a law abiding citizen and a firearm owner you need to set the right image. Going around walking with a loaded gun in your hand is going to give a whole lot of negative press and send the wrong symbol. It tells the rest of the world that you are looking for trouble.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona, U.S.
    Posts
    625

    Post imported post

    It is easy to comment on the situation when you are not there but when you are in the middle of it, it is never as simple as it seems. Likewise, when people are threatening each other with beer bottles, they are committing an aggrevated assault which according to Arizona law is a felony and is justification for deadly force. If anyone had come toward me with a beer bottle, I would have shot them. A beer bottle is a deadly weapon and it can kill or seriously injure you even if it is thrown. By me quickly walking through and away from them, I wasn't escalating the situation but my actions and body language were designed to give a message that I was not interested in their fighting and to keep me out of it. Again, I never said anything to them or pointed it at them and quickly walked away. I was concerned about the police having an issue with me doing this but the behavior of the officers on scene indicated that they were really tired of this crap and deep down were glad that someone stood up to it. Escalating the situation would have involved me yelling at them and waving it in the air which I did not do. Also, it was obvious that these punks did not have weapons or they would have used them before I even arrived. Again, if any one of them had come toward me with a bottle, I would have shot them. As long as people keep putting up with this crap, it will continue and get worse. I refuse to be a victim or to surrender to such trash. They want to intimidate the rest of us and I refuse to be intimidated by it. Theincident ended up fine. Numerous individuals ended up getting shipped down to jail and hopefully back to Mexico. I have no problem calling the cops on them and no problem defending myself if needed. Again, when you aren't at the scene, it naturally seems more simple than it is.

    One person suggested staying in the car and calling 911. That would likely cause them to attack me since they knew I was reporting them. Do you really want gang members knowing that you called the police on them? Probably not. They probably thought I was just a crazy white guy who gave them a headache but am no long-term threat to their activities. They are clearly interested in attacking each other and not me. I can't say for sure as I don't know what these people are capable of but I refuse to live in fear and put up with criminals. It is true that I could move but I have lived there 9 months or so and never has this happened and this place does have lots of families with kids. You can go and move to another apartment on the other side of town and the same damn thing would happen. I can understand though the whole risk of the court situation had I ended up actually shooting one of them. They probably would have made the argument that I escalated the situation even though people were already using deadly weapons. The bleeding hearts in our society are in some ways more of a threat than the criminals themselves because they belive in coddling these low-lifes. It is pretty scary when we live in a society like this where half of the people are scum and the other half are mindless zombies.

    Now had this happened in the old Wild West, the person in place of me would have probably fired the gun in the air a few times which I felt like doing but again didn't do it. Again, when this is how our society is behaving, then we need a "Wild West" response to it. The bleeding hearts want to "educate" vicious murderous criminals. Here is how you educate them: You shoot half of them and then the other half are now educated. End of story.



  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lake Charles Area, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    1,723

    Post imported post

    41 Magnum wrote:
    To those that jump him for escalation issues-

    DON'T! Not until you've been through it yourself.
    What !?!? I don't have jump in a fire to know it will burn me


    Don't worry, I have no plans of:

    - Showing a large group of drunk pissed off fighting mexicans I have a gun

    - After showing the group of drunk pissed off fighting mexicans I have a gun, I do not intend to Walk amoungst them.



    Thanks I'll Pass

  13. #13
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    David.Car wrote:

    I'm sorry but what he did is illegal in many states. I wish I knew his location so I could pull up the state laws for him to read.

    I would HIGHLY suggest that the OP take a concealed weapons class.

    There was NO reason for him to pull out his firearm and use it as an intimidation tool, and don't kid yourself, that is exactly what it was used for. Lucky he didn't wind up dead. Any one of those people could have pulled out their own firearm after seeing him carrying one and shot him.

    Again. If he was so afraid for his well being, stay in your damn car. Drive around the block a couple times until the police arrived and calmed things down.

    Being a law abiding citizen and a firearm owner you need to set the right image. Going around walking with a loaded gun in your hand is going to give a whole lot of negative press and send the wrong symbol. It tells the rest of the world that you are looking for trouble.
    Sounds a lot like the same phrase the anti-OC people like to use as to why you shouldn't OC.........any explanation as to why?

    Frankly, I wouldn't have sat there and let myself be trapped in my vehicle, and I certainly would not allow someone to keep me from my home, no matter who or what they are, or what they are doing.....the gun is called "the great equalizer" for a reason.....the police had no problem with it, he didn't end up with trouble, and by his actions most likely avoided getting into a situation where he would have HAD to shoot someone.....sounds like a successful end to a no-win scenario to me......

    As it has been said, everyone here likes to armchair quarterback, but when you are in a similar situation, you want to make excuses for how you acted or you pad your story somewhat........I think I would rather give a person the benefit of the doubt and that someone used their gun for self defense without firing a shot tells a lot about how NON-violent this person's intentions were.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    Sounds a lot like the same phrase the anti-OC people like to use as to why you shouldn't OC.........any explanation as to why?

    Frankly, I wouldn't have sat there and let myself be trapped in my vehicle, and I certainly would not allow someone to keep me from my home, no matter who or what they are, or what they are doing.....the gun is called "the great equalizer" for a reason.....the police had no problem with it, he didn't end up with trouble, and by his actions most likely avoided getting into a situation where he would have HAD to shoot someone.....sounds like a successful end to a no-win scenario to me......

    As it has been said, everyone here likes to armchair quarterback, but when you are in a similar situation, you want to make excuses for how you acted or you pad your story somewhat........I think I would rather give a person the benefit of the doubt and that someone used their gun for self defense without firing a shot tells a lot about how NON-violent this person's intentions were.
    There is a difference between Open Carrying, and walking around with a gun in your hand ready to use. One is a deterant, the other is begging for trouble.

    If he didn't want to wait in his vehicle, fine. Get out, walk AROUND the encounter. Don't pull your gun and walk right down the middle. At no point was the OP EVER threatened, or had ANY aggression made in his direction. He even made it very clear that the fight was happening with spectators who were not involved. So if there are a bunch of people standing around watching the fighters he was no where remotely in danger being even further from the fight as the spectators.

    As to "Protector84"

    "One person suggested staying in the car and calling 911. That would likely cause them to attack me since they knew I was reporting them."

    Umm.. They are not standing around watching him in his car... They are a little busy. No one would notice him calling the police, and as the OP said in his post when he did call they were already in route from other calls.

    But here is the best question right here, you have two choices. A and B... What do you choose:

    A. Spend a little more time in your car, or drive around the block, or take a long walk around the event.

    B. Pull your gun and walk through a hostile crowd.

    For anyone defending choice B, your logic is astounding in its failure.

    Yes, carrying a weapon is a great way to defend yourself. But your first choice of action is to keep yourself out of the situations where you might need a gun. This OP chose to ignore many MANY alternatives, and went straight to pulling a loaded gun.

    (again, I would like to add how HIGHLY illegal this is in most of the country)

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    Frightening and disconcerting situtation and I'm not sure what I would have done. Certainly a case could be made pretty easily that Protector84 was brandishing, however, the question was whether or not it was justified. If he was doing so illegally, obviously the LEOs weren't too worried about it and likely understood why he would have been. The other side is that I am sure he feared for his safety if not his life so it could also be argued that drawing his weapon was a defensive act to a life threatening situation.

    Yes they could have attacked him and taken the gun from him. If it had been holstered or concealed, they also could have attacked him and taken the gun from him. I think I would call his actions a calculated risk after finding himself in an already risky situation. I don't find myself in any position to armchair quarterback his actions. I don't have a diagram of his parking lot, knowledge of the lighting, snapshot of the positions of people or any other information to know whether walking around or avoiding the situation otherwise were possible. He did state that we wasn't able to leave the parking lot at that point.

    One thing I do want to comment on is the "if you pulled that stuff around here" comments/attitude. As we all know, state laws vary greatly as to firearms so unless "around here" is at least in the same state it really adds nothing to the discussion, IMO.

    Protector84, I'm glad you got through the situation without any physical or legal issues.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    uTAH-life member: NRA, GOA, CCRKBA, ,
    Posts
    291

    Post imported post

    Just so you all don't get the idea that I go out looking for trouble-

    My post was off the cuff, without a lot of thought. As deepdiver posted-

    WAY TOO MANY unknown variables to give a clear cut answer. But "around here", it's not illegal as there were multiple folks with the ability, oportunity, and motive to commit a felony against the OP. He was just trying to go from his vehicle to his residence, and was certainly in a large amount of danger.



    My main point was to not armchair quarterback the situation.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,268

    Post imported post

    41 Magnum wrote:
    WAY TOO MANY unknown variables to give a clear cut answer. But "around here", it's not illegal as there were multiple folks with the ability, oportunity, and motive to commit a felony against the OP. He was just trying to go from his vehicle to his residence, and was certainly in a large amount of danger.
    Way too many unknown variables? Yes, I can give up that point. Obviously I have no idea how everything happened.

    As to multiple folks with the ability, opportunity and motive to commit a felony against the OP? That is a ridiculous statement. They were involved in their own dispute before he showed up, he was not adding to the dispute... What is the motive?

    "DUDE! This guy showed up to our fight! Lets beat him up!??"

    Doesn't work. Not when there are a bunch of other people with chip bags sitting around watching...

    And if we were to pull out guns anytime there was a person who had the ability and opportunity to commit a crimw... Well you would never put your gun away, because EVERYONE in EVERY situation has the potetial to commit a felony of some sort.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Carson City, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    344

    Post imported post

    David.Car wrote:
    compmanio365 wrote:
    Sounds a lot like the same phrase the anti-OC people like to use as to why you shouldn't OC.........any explanation as to why?

    Frankly, I wouldn't have sat there and let myself be trapped in my vehicle, and I certainly would not allow someone to keep me from my home, no matter who or what they are, or what they are doing.....the gun is called "the great equalizer" for a reason.....the police had no problem with it, he didn't end up with trouble, and by his actions most likely avoided getting into a situation where he would have HAD to shoot someone.....sounds like a successful end to a no-win scenario to me......

    As it has been said, everyone here likes to armchair quarterback, but when you are in a similar situation, you want to make excuses for how you acted or you pad your story somewhat........I think I would rather give a person the benefit of the doubt and that someone used their gun for self defense without firing a shot tells a lot about how NON-violent this person's intentions were.
    There is a difference between Open Carrying, and walking around with a gun in your hand ready to use. One is a deterant, the other is begging for trouble.

    If he didn't want to wait in his vehicle, fine. Get out, walk AROUND the encounter. Don't pull your gun and walk right down the middle. At no point was the OP EVER threatened, or had ANY aggression made in his direction. He even made it very clear that the fight was happening with spectators who were not involved. So if there are a bunch of people standing around watching the fighters he was no where remotely in danger being even further from the fight as the spectators.

    As to "Protector84"

    "One person suggested staying in the car and calling 911. That would likely cause them to attack me since they knew I was reporting them."

    Umm.. They are not standing around watching him in his car... They are a little busy. No one would notice him calling the police, and as the OP said in his post when he did call they were already in route from other calls.

    But here is the best question right here, you have two choices. A and B... What do you choose:

    A. Spend a little more time in your car, or drive around the block, or take a long walk around the event.

    B. Pull your gun and walk through a hostile crowd.

    For anyone defending choice B, your logic is astounding in its failure.

    Yes, carrying a weapon is a great way to defend yourself. But your first choice of action is to keep yourself out of the situations where you might need a gun. This OP chose to ignore many MANY alternatives, and went straight to pulling a loaded gun.

    (again, I would like to add how HIGHLY illegal this is in most of the country)
    Here's the cultural problem again. If you think they aren't watching you with you being one of only a handful of whites in the complex, you're crazy! I grew up in the middle of Mexican culture, worked in the fields and ranches with them, as well as traveling quite a bit in Mexico. I also speak quite a bit of Spanish,so I know these folks and their culturewell. They will not respect you without a show of strength---in fact, doing otherwise will get you killed fast! If the OP had held off coming into the complex, one or more of the bystanders would have noticed and said something. The OP's reaction was the right one and he will likely be left alone because of what he did.

    Illegal? Maybe in some jurisdictions, but then you have to find a cop willing to arrest you for it and in most jurisdictions, they are fed up with the Mexican gang/crime problem so they aren't going to do a thing.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    David.Car wrote:
    As to multiple folks with the ability, opportunity and motive to commit a felony against the OP? That is a ridiculous statement. They were involved in their own dispute before he showed up, he was not adding to the dispute... What is the motive?

    "DUDE! This guy showed up to our fight! Lets beat him up!??"

    Doesn't work. Not when there are a bunch of other people with chip bags sitting around watching...
    Possibly. I've seen similar things happen when the person who "showed up" was not of the same identity group of the brawlers.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  20. #20
    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    1,215

    Post imported post

    I don't know what I would've done in that situation, so I for one am not going to jump all over Protector for what he did. MAYBE it would've been sufficient to just walk through the crowd with the gun strapped to the hip, but I wasn't there, so I don't know.

    I also DO NOT think that he should've waited for the cops to cleara path to his own house. To suggest that is ludicrous. Oh wait, that's right, we can't do anything for ourselves, the cops have to save us!

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Posts
    839

    Post imported post

    I probably wouldn't have unholstered, but I would have unsnapped the thumb strap and walked with my hand on the gun. If the gun isn't in my hand I certainly don't want it ending up in anybody else's.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    11

    Post imported post

    In addition to the other mistakes you made there's one more that I haven't seen mentioned. You played your hand - now these thugs know one more address where they can get their hands on, at minimum, a shotgun (I assume that you carry your pistol with you 24x7), and who knows what else. Seriously, you're not going to stay home 24x7 to guard your stuff, are you? What are you going to do when they come in force to get your pistol, too?

    Really, I think you played your hand too early. You took a dangerous situation and could have escalated it to a deadly one. It wasn't a potentially deadly situation FOR YOU until you made it one. Did you think that you were the only one there with a gun? They had you outnumbered by a LOT. No matter how good of a shot you think you are, you can't defend yourself against multiple assailants like this and expect to come out on top.

    As it's already been suggested, you could have, really you SHOULD have, driven around or out of the complex and called the cops and then had nothing to worry about. That's what I would have done. I'm glad it worked out for you, though - now, don't do it again.

    Consider this whole experience a withdrawl from your bucket of luck and a deposit into your bucket of experience.

    -
    Jim

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    11

    Post imported post

    asforme wrote:
    I probably wouldn't have unholstered, but I would have unsnapped the thumb strap and walked with my hand on the gun. If the gun isn't in my hand I certainly don't want it ending up in anybody else's.
    I hadn't even considered this . . . an unholstered weapon walking through a crowd? Would have been pretty easy, I think, to get that weapon away from the OP. At least in a retention holster it's going to be reasonably difficult to get it away from its owner.

    -
    Jim

  24. #24
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    In addition to the other mistakes you made there's one more that I haven't seen mentioned. You played your hand - now these thugs know one more address where they can get their hands on, at minimum, a shotgun (I assume that you carry your pistol with you 24x7), and who knows what else. Seriously, you're not going to stay home 24x7 to guard your stuff, are you? What are you going to do when they come in force to get your pistol, too?
    Honestly, I hadn't thought of that point.......that is maybe the one point that would give me pause about how this was played out. But if you are OCing, you are taking that risk anyways.......most of the time, especially if those people know you know where they live, aren't going to want to get in a firefight with you.........possible though.

    The rest.........I for one would never wait on the cops in that situation.........

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Posts
    839

    Post imported post

    LordJim wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    I probably wouldn't have unholstered, but I would have unsnapped the thumb strap and walked with my hand on the gun. If the gun isn't in my hand I certainly don't want it ending up in anybody else's.
    I hadn't even considered this . . . an unholstered weapon walking through a crowd? Would have been pretty easy, I think, to get that weapon away from the OP. At least in a retention holster it's going to be reasonably difficult to get it away from its owner.

    -
    Jim
    The point I was making was actually opposite. I think it's going to be alot easier to get a gun out of a holster where someone has to take the time to react and protect the firearm, than it would be if they tried to snatch it out of my hand. I'd go for the compromise and keep my hand on it protecting it, and ready to draw if necessary, but leave it in the holster.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •