OCDO gets fan mail from Canada!

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In respect of the genuine Conciencious Objectors, especially those serving as being the exception to the rule such as the person you mention, I hereby apologise.

Martin L Hedington

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One point that Ian made in his last email to me is valid. In the interest of professionalism, we should not use any deragatory terms such as "wog" even when we are only quoting from other sources.

I think that he is thinking over what some have said and his initial email might have been a bit of a kneejerk reaction.

Let's be courteous and professional in all contact. I have seen other's who started off upset about gun rights turn into believers.

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I just find it interesting that every neg. comment I read weather it is about Kevin and I or about anyone else; the people have no idea what they are talking about. They don't know any of us or have walked in our shoes. All they seem to do is make fun of, accuse or should I say ASSUME that we are all wackos. What they don't understand is that most of us are very well educated, normal human beings, etc. But everyone already has read this or heard it before. They just seem to be tied to there emotionals for whatever reason and maybe they have had bad experiences with firearms in general or the people they have talked to have. I just find it very sad and feel sorry for them that they have to find ways to talk bad about other people when they don't even know the facts. If people choose to do this it is there own progative and I am not going to stop them, it dosen't hurt my feelings one bit. They can think the way they want to think. I know that I am not going to be the next woman carjacked or raped. Regardless of what they say or think I will always have a firearm with me! I am glad to live in an area that supports it and I am not going to change my ways for anyone regardless of what they say or think. Also if people are so apt to see a photo of Kevin and I, research it! Maybe they will become educated along the way. Here is a few hints..... SLC airport signs, packing heat no apoligies, this site!!, UCC.com, and many other places. Anywho you have to expect all knids of feedback when you allow a story to be done about you. I am not going to just sit back and have my rights taken from me. I will do everything I can to educate people around me and support the 2nd amendment and if it means a little more badtalking from other people to do it, that's just life. There will always be a negative side to everything. At least we are all getting the word out one person at a time!

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packingmama wrote:

I just find it interesting that every neg. comment I read weather it is about Kevin and I or about anyone else; the people have no idea what they are talking about. They don't know any of us or have walked in our shoes. All they seem to do is make fun of, accuse or should I say ASSUME that we are all wackos. What they don't understand is that most of us are very well educated, normal human beings, etc. But everyone already has read this or heard it before. They just seem to be tied to there emotionals for whatever reason and maybe they have had bad experiences with firearms in general or the people they have talked to have. I just find it very sad and feel sorry for them that they have to find ways to talk bad about other people when they don't even know the facts. If people choose to do this it is there own progative and I am not going to stop them, it dosen't hurt my feelings one bit. They can think the way they want to think. I know that I am not going to be the next woman carjacked or raped. Regardless of what they say or think I will always have a firearm with me! I am glad to live in an area that supports it and I am not going to change my ways for anyone regardless of what they say or think. Also if people are so apt to see a photo of Kevin and I, research it! Maybe they will become educated along the way. Here is a few hints..... SLC airport signs, packing heat no apoligies, this site!!, UCC.com, and many other places. Anywho you have to expect all knids of feedback when you allow a story to be done about you. I am not going to just sit back and have my rights taken from me. I will do everything I can to educate people around me and support the 2nd amendment and if it means a little more badtalking from other people to do it, that's just life. There will always be a negative side to everything. At least we are all getting the word out one person at a time!

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:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

tj

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jpierce wrote:

One point that Ian made in his last email to me is valid. In the interest of professionalism, we should not use any deragatory terms such as "wog" even when we are only quoting from other sources.

I think that he is thinking over what some have said and his initial email might have been a bit of a kneejerk reaction.

Let's be courteous and professional in all contact. I have seen other's who started off upset about gun rights turn into believers.

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Yes, sorry for the "wog" remark. It was undignified. I was just trying to respond in Brit idiom, and to point out that the poor bastard who got shot in the Underground was probably regarded in similar dismissive terms by the cops who shot him. He certainly wasn't the terror bomber they assumed he was. My point was that Mother England likes the taste of blood just fine when it suits her.

The fact of the matter is that there are already so many guns and so many people with guns here that a gun ban could never work. It's a fact that Americans are armed, by and large. Even if you think that's a terrible, sad state to be in, it is how it is. One answer is to arm yourself against the other armed people, because kind thoughts don't win the day. Just a thought.

-ljp

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Interesting. An angry letter from a citizen of a nation with one of smallest militaries in the world for it's population which relies predominately on it's proximity to the US for it's defense. Japan declined to invade the US in WWII in great part out of fear of "a rifle behind every blade of grass". Think they would have thought twice about invading Canada if they didn't have to go through the US to do so? And that was a Canada built by those just as self-reliant as those who built this nation. That was a Canada filled with frontiermen facing similar conditions to our Alaskan settlors. Tough stock indeed. And now the nannies are in control.

Our founders believed in a God given right to bear arms among other rights protected in the Bill of Rights. In this nation of free men and women, there is nothing miscontrued about the Jensens' belief in their right to carry a gun. Their children will grow up believing in self-reliance and liberty, traits we used to share with our neighbors to the north.


Edited: Failed to refresh and read other posts before commenting.

A few more things: Firstly, Mr. Carruthers, my condolenses on your loss. It is always sad to hear of someone serving their nation dying in the line of duty whether it be in training, combat or on the job.

Secondly: No invitation to join OCDO is required. Membership is free and open as is right and proper on a forum dedicated to our constitutional rights and individual freedom and liberty.

Thirdly: Many of us here are educated professionals like yourself. We have doctors and pilots and business owners and engineers and yes, even a few attorneys. Defense of our rights and specifically the right of self-defense is not an economic class or educational issue. I enjoy theater, classical music - both playing and listening, history, philosophy, automobiles, reading, carpentry and firearms. We are a diverse group here, however, due to the owner guided focus of the forum, not much of these other interests are discussed here.

Fourth: We carry firearms for many different reasons. There are numerous threads discussing why we carry firearms. For what it is worth, I finally made the decision to do so after I became an only child when my little brother died and I survived the same cancer that killed him. I decided that I not only had an obligation to my parents to survive, but to many others. Contributing factors were that I own a business and often deal with significant sums of other people's cash and for work I sometimes am in rural areas alone and have been attacked by dogs before. Now that I am getting married soon and planning a family, that decision is even more important as I have ever more reason to ensure that I can defend myself and my family. Not an irrational, John Wayne, shoot out at high noon decision in the least. For me it was a long thought out considered process as it was for many of us here. Most of us do not carry for knee-jerk reasons or because of delusions of grandeur or hero-syndrome as many accuse us.

Fifth: I find it at best distasteful if members from our forum have sent you hateful messages. Respectful disagreement is one thing, hateful responses are something else. I hope that they find themselves in the same position as you of regretting their fire at their leisure and better yet, opt to send an apology to you for their reponse. I am not in a position to apologize for the membership, however, know that such comments are the responsibility of the individual and not a reflection of all or even a majority of the membership here.

Sixth: I agree that the image of an mother with a sidearm on her hip with her child is not accepted in most of the world. However, the Bill of Rights and most of the rest of our Constitution is also not accepted in most of the world. In most of the world women are little more than chattel so I find that most of the world objecting to a women capable of defending herself, her children and husband if necessary to be expected.

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Not just one person at a time, thousands because of this article. We should all thank the Jensens for sure.

Those of us who have had the pleasure of meeting them in person know that they are excellent people. The kind of people you'd want to have over for dinner.

ETA: I was posting in reponse to packingmama's post, and didn't refresh the page first to make sure nobody had posted.

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Martin_tu wrote:

Dear O/C.Org members

[SNIP...]


Martin L Hedington

Gauteng Regional Advocacy Director: Gun Owners of South Africa; http://www.gunownerssa.org

GM: Community Crime-prevention Initiatives

Publisher: Conditioned Victim? Your Choice

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Martin, a most sincere welcome to OCDO! What a perfect first post! Well done andthank you!

What Mr. Carruthers either fails to realize or intentionally ignores is that criminals will always have guns as evidenced bythe continuing gun crime in England and Australia with their "complete" gun bans. Guns can be easilymanufactured by the simplest of machines and as such, people will always find ways to make them.

While hemay proudlythink of himself assuch an independent thinker and self-righteous gun control advocate, he is merelyanother unsuspecting pawn in the game of control and his strings are being pulled from much further below. He,and others who share his opinon, have beenintentionally mis-informed by those who out of their ignorance or intentional design, wish to control masses of people into doing their will. Again, history shows the results of that failure and I'll not go ito a history lesson that we already know.

One of my favorite quotes has always been: "Wrong is wrong, even if everybody agrees with it. And Right is Right even if nobody agrees with it." - Anonymous

Only God Himself who gave me life, can take my life away from me and anything that interferes with that is evil by design.The Bible teaches us that,my Catholic Church acknowledges it and history has verified it time and time again.He and others like him will eventually find themselveseternally responsible to God for the harm that comes to those that follow himas a direct result of them being harmed while defenseless. Love of God and the life He has given, cannot be replaced by fear of Mr. Carruthers and his opinion. "Socially Acceptable" does NOT equate with right, nor does it equate with the will of God. I do not live to please society, but God alone.

When the chattering of the monkies grows so loud, I simply go to my secret place and pray to God for guidance and strength and it is through Himthat I realize with such infinite certainty that my life, the lives of my family, friends and all those around me, and indeed ALL LIFE that has not turned to evil is sacred and worth defending.

"Rend your heart, not your garments..." Joel 2:13

I, for one, would rather take this fight to the source: the hearts of men. Taking the tool from the hand is a temporary and superficial "Look at Me Right Now" victory of the proud and vain (gun controllers) and those who believe there is no higher authority than themselvesand there are noeternal consequences. What they fail to realize is that tool (gun/weapon)will simply be replaced with another becausethe evil that inthe heart remains.And as certain as the sun wil rise tomorrow, there IS a higher authority than themselves that they will answer to one day. You CANNOT legislate morality, you CANNOT stop guns or ANY weapon from getting into the hands of those with evil intent. All gun control laws are "feel good" legislation and illusions of safety to the blind and unknowing but they DO INTENTIONALLY prevent defenseve weapons from getting into the hands of those that would defend life! By that fact alone, gun control laws are by their very nature and design: evil.

"The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands,and then work outward from there." -Robert M. Pirsig

Take the fight to the heart!Asdisgusted as I am by the pictures of mothers putting guns into the hands of their children in the middle east, I have suchbright hope when I seethe exact opposite here in America:mothers themselves carrying openly and defending their childrenand walking without fear! Change your heart! Anyone whosees only the guns in both pictures and thinks of both as evil, does notknow how to look into the hearts of men, because they have forgotten how to look into their own heart.

We must always show evil in all forms;crime, corruption, tyranny, apathy, prejudice, etc.,that we will not sit and allow ourselves to be led like lambs down the dark path.Fill your heart with God and with such Love, joy andrespect for the life that Hehas given each of us andfor the Love He has shown us and there will be no room for evil! Not in your heart, not in your life and perhaps one day not in our world.

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"Interesting. An angry letter from a citizen of a nation with one of smallest militaries in the world for it's population which relies predominately on it's proximity to the US for it's defense. Japan declined to invade the US in WWII in great part out of fear of "a rifle behind every blade of grass". Think they would have thought twice about invading Canada if they didn't have to go through the US to do so? And that was a Canada built by those just as self-reliant as those who built this nation. That was a Canada filled with frontiermen facing similar conditions to our Alaskan settlors. Tough stock indeed. And now the nannies are in control."

I'm new to opencarry.org, so I'm sorry if I didn't do the quotations right. Anyway, if you look at our history you'll find that the "nannies" weren't always in control. The fact is thatCanada actuallysufferedhigher per capita losses than the United States in both world wars and our rate of firearm ownership was historically on par withAmerica's. Unfortunately we got complacent and let socialists strip our rights away little by little. That's why it's so important for Americans to exercise the right tobear armsand make a stand for individual liberty while you still can.

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ar_180 wrote:

"Interesting. An angry letter from a citizen of a nation with one of smallest militaries in the world for it's population which relies predominately on it's proximity to the US for it's defense. Japan declined to invade the US in WWII in great part out of fear of "a rifle behind every blade of grass". Think they would have thought twice about invading Canada if they didn't have to go through the US to do so? And that was a Canada built by those just as self-reliant as those who built this nation. That was a Canada filled with frontiermen facing similar conditions to our Alaskan settlors. Tough stock indeed. And now the nannies are in control."

I'm new to opencarry.org, so I'm sorry if I didn't do the quotations right. Anyway, if you look at our history you'll find that the "nannies" weren't always in control. The fact is thatCanada actuallysufferedhigher per capita losses than the United States in both world wars and our rate of firearm ownership was historically on par withAmerica's. Unfortunately we got complacent and let socialists strip our rights away little by little. That's why it's so important for Americans to exercise the right tobear armsand make a stand for individual liberty while you still can.

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I apologize if I made it sound as if I were criticizing Canada's fighting spirit or history. I did state my point rather badly and I am well aware of Canadians' fighting spirit and ability as shown in recent years in Afghanistan. I was attempting to mark the difference between the historic Canada and the now nanny-state Canada in the bolded part above. I did not do so very well and apologize to any Canadian members who felt I insulted their heritage in my post.

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Deepdiver

I wasn't offended and you made a good point, I was just trying to add that freedoms can be lost if they are not stood up for and that Canada is an example of a nations whose rights have been slowly eroded and are just starting to be reclaimed. I have to say that I'm enjoying my stay in Virginia and would like to make a home here if Uncle Sam will let me. By the way, how do you do those block quotes?

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ar_180 wrote:

Deepdiver

I wasn't offended and you made a good point, I was just trying to add that freedoms can be lost if they are not stood up for and that Canada is an example of a nations whose rights have been slowly eroded and are just starting to be reclaimed. I have to say that I'm enjoying my stay in Virginia and would like to make a home here if Uncle Sam will let me. By the way, how do you do those block quotes?

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+1 We are on the same page and I did note your point as to losing freedoms. You sound very much like the kind of person we need in this nation and I hope our Dear Uncle agrees.

To get the quote blocks you can either go to the other members post and hit the "quote" button to the top right of their comments (next to the "reply" button you have been using) or you can cut and paste their comments and use the " " button at the right end of the top toolbar in the "reply post" box. This particular forum program is a little squirrelly sometimes with quote boxes if you try to do multiple ones so sometimes quote boxes look a little messed up.

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deepdiver wrote:

ar_180 wrote:

Deepdiver

I wasn't offended and you made a good point, I was just trying to add that freedoms can be lost if they are not stood up for and that Canada is an example of a nations whose rights have been slowly eroded and are just starting to be reclaimed. I have to say that I'm enjoying my stay in Virginia and would like to make a home here if Uncle Sam will let me. By the way, how do you do those block quotes?

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+1 We are on the same page and I did note your point as to losing freedoms. You sound very much like the kind of person we need in this nation and I hope our Dear Uncle agrees.

To get the quote blocks you can either go to the other members post and hit the "quote" button to the top right of their comments (next to the "reply" button you have been using) or you can cut and paste their comments and use the " " button at the right end of the top toolbar in the "reply post" box. This particular forum program is a little squirrelly sometimes with quote boxes if you try to do multiple ones so sometimes quote boxes look a little messed up.

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I get it now, thanks for the help.

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I too fail to see what this guy's problem is. He is not a citizen of this country, thank God, so this condesending diatribe makes no sense. Canada and Great Britan have gun control so he should stay there and stop commenting about things he knows nothing about. I am ethnically french canadian and am glad my ancestors came to the US otherwise I might have grown up with a warped and arrogant attitude like this poor fool. :uhoh: Freedom is a precious thing, something this guy clearly has no idea about. :cuss:

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Ian Curruthers.... Please feel free to create an account and join us.

Each country has their own way of doing things and nobody is forcing you to live or even visit the USA. Guns are a way of life for many Americans. Most are usedfor law abiding purposes and some are not.No different than a baseball bat. I do not see anyone working toban baseball bats just yet. :lol:

You may not like how we enjoy and own firearms but I hate how Canadians get prescription medication for far less than what Americans have to pay when the same medication is actuallymanufactured here in the USA.

Sign up, create a thread, and post your thoughts.

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massltca wrote:

I too fail to see what this guy's problem is. He is not a citizen of this country, thank God, so this condesending diatribe makes no sense. Canada and Great Britan have gun control so he should stay there and stop commenting about things he knows nothing about. I am ethnically french canadian and am glad my ancestors came to the US otherwise I might have grown up with a warped and arrogant attitude like this poor fool. :uhoh: Freedom is a precious thing, something this guy clearly has no idea about. :cuss:

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He has been chatting with me via email offline throughout the day and I think that he regrets his initial message. Let us not forget that he has been indoctrinated by years of the anti-gun pablum that we fight here in the US every day.

I think that today, he received a crash course in the passion of American gun owners and it gave him much to think about. I suggest we let him think about the historical and cultural data he has been given and I have seconded LEO 229's offer for him to join the forum so that he can learn more about a topic that he admits he knows next to nothing about.

Let us not only be defenders of our beliefs but also ambassadors where we can!

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jpierce wrote:

massltca wrote:

I too fail to see what this guy's problem is. He is not a citizen of this country, thank God, so this condesending diatribe makes no sense. Canada and Great Britan have gun control so he should stay there and stop commenting about things he knows nothing about. I am ethnically french canadian and am glad my ancestors came to the US otherwise I might have grown up with a warped and arrogant attitude like this poor fool. :uhoh: Freedom is a precious thing, something this guy clearly has no idea about. :cuss:

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He has been chatting with me via email offline throughout the day and I think that he regrets his initial message. Let us not forget that he has been indoctrinated by years of the anti-gun pablum that we fight here in the US every day.

I think that today, he received a crash course in the passion of American gun owners and it gave him much to think about. I suggest we let him think about the historical and cultural data he has been given and I have seconded LEO 229's offer for him to join the forum so that he can learn more about a topic that he admits he knows next to nothing about.

Let us not only be defenders of our beliefs but also ambassadors where we can!

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I sent him an Email today as European moved to the US and became a U.S Citizen, stating in that Email that I am now PROUD to be an American and ENJOY the freedoms and Inalienable Rights.



TJ

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BobCav wrote:

"Martin, a most sincere welcome to OCDO! What a perfect first post! Well done andthank you! "

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Thanks for the welcome buddy. It is indeedalways my pleasure but as you saw,even after nearly 25 years in humble service to freedoms cause, (I came to South Africa in '85) - I can still occasionally get suckeredinto losing my coolover the issue by arrogant braggarts like a 'seemingly fellow' countryman such as'IC'. (Which conveniently brings me to my next point).


BobCav wrote:

"Guns can be easilymanufactured by the simplest of machines and as such, people will always find ways to make them."

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Absolutely and thank the good Lord they do brother. Although 'IC' displays perhaps more of the traits of a stereotypicalbowler-hatter or King George type,permitme to introduce you someone I feel proud to associate with, Philip Luty. He's on.. (hey, maybe you should just Google his nameI think, he's very popular with them, LOL!)



BobCav wrote:

"While he (IC) may proudlythink of himself assuch an independent thinker...

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I beg todiffer sir,my limited experience of anti-gunners leads me to believe that by far the vast majority are either simply too lazy to research the full spectrum of the argument; thereby allowing anyone (with an adequate education) to independantly reach the inevitable conclusion that based on a balance of probabilites, private firearm ownership (in responsible hands) has overwhelmingly and comprehensively been proven to be beneficial within mostSocieties. As an example, one must only wonder at just how many innocents would have been sparedin Rwanda had the civilians been armed.

Just prior to the finalisation of our current Gunlaws, at a TV studio I personally handed a copy of a 96-page Political Masters Thesis (out of Capetown University) entitled: 'A Critical Analysis of Firearm Control in Post Aparthied South Africa'. The Senior Advocate (who was also a police Commissioner), the main architecht of the new Law chose to just ignore the entire thesis purely out of hand, claiming it had no bearing in real life. Yet during the TV show he'd falselyclaimed there was nolocal research on the matter whatsoever. He'd already trashed people like John Lott and other equally scientificand empirical researchers on the subjectbut as they say; "there's none so blind".

Once again though, I must thank you sincerely for allowing a counterpoint to the idle chatter of another ex-pat (in IC), keep in mind that your own Constitutionwasoriginally based on ours, God forbid that you allow yours to be trampled as both our English Constitution was and as apparentlyour South African one is being now.

Yours in common cause, Martin Hedington

Dieu et mon Droit! Molon Labe!

http://www.gunownerssa.org