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Thread: Open carry In ventura County

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    Hello folks,

    I am very new at this, but I do own a gun and feel I have a right to carry it for protection. I live in the city of Camarillo of Ventura County. Now of course all the Gang members are NOT concerned about any gun laws, but I am because being a law abiding citizen I will be picked on first. I just would like to know what are my rights in my area if anyone knows off hand..I would greatly appreciate some help. I can call my local Police dept, but they may not tell me the truth just to keep me from doing it??



    Thanks

    Mike

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Post this in the appropriate State section and you might be able to get an answer.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Fixed and moved to California.

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    ranger1202 wrote:
    I can call my local Police dept, but they may not tell me the truth just to keep me from doing it??
    +1 for truth.

    Calling the police and asking their opinion is going to net two likely results. 1) They will say anything (including lie) to encourage you not to even try it. 2) They will turn it into a reason to give you the third degree and interrogate you- attempting to determine your motive for doing such a thing.

    If you want legal advice, seek out an attorney, not a police officer.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Here are three good starting places that will help guide you throught the Penal Codes. Don't rely on just what is written in these though, read the Penal Codes and the Case Law for yourself. Be sure you are comfortable with your understanding of the risks and take all appropriate measures to help prevent misunderstanding/abuse from LEOs. And if you decide to Open Carry be sure to get yourself a digital recorder and keep it on at all times while Open Carrying.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/4842.html

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/8457.html

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/11495.html



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    yes it is legal just review the penal code(cause of the school gun free zone ect.). I have talked to the PD, they are not friendly to the idea and claim they will detain you at gun point and kill you if you make any wrong moves. If you talk to them on the phone, they will just humor you, if you send a letter they will respond but not in a postive way. Alsoif you do send a letter, be careful on how its worded. I also talked to the CA BOF(also not the best source for info) and they said its legal with restrictions and the local PD will do what they can to prevent you from exerising your right but in a email they were very vague.

    I also live in the area(NP) and as long as you understand the risk carry on. Please encourage people to join seeing more people with you less harassment from LE, maybe have a OC event like in other counties. Just make sure you have a attorney ready and have recording devices nearby. Keep us updated on you situation.

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    Recording devices are illegal if you are the perp, only bystanders are legal for this type of action. It would also not be admissible in court.


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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    LostCoast wrote:
    Recording devices are illegal if you are the perp, only bystanders are legal for this type of action. It would also not be admissible in court.
    Citation of code? Case law?

    I call FUD.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    ConditionThree wrote:
    LostCoast wrote:
    Recording devices are illegal if you are the perp, only bystanders are legal for this type of action. It would also not be admissible in court.
    Citation of code? Case law?

    I call FUD.



    It was word of mouth from local police in Camarillo,

    I have yet to verify it and may do so soon. I was told it also may impede the investigation and that also can be used against you.

    I am also pretty sure you have to announce to them you are recording video or audio before doing so.

    I am open to proof otherwise. I am also willing to get with someone and record the harassment as a bystander if they are ready to make the challenge of open carry.

    I have issues with harassment, violation of rights and defamation of charter and would like to see headway in open carry. anyone game?, lets tame the beast. Recommendations of a good local 2A lawyeralsoneeded before we begin.


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    LostCoast wrote:
    It was word of mouth from local police in Camarillo,

    I have yet to verify it and may do so soon. I was told it also may impede the investigation and that also can be used against you.

    I am also pretty sure you have to announce to them you are recording video or audio before doing so.

    I am open to proof otherwise...
    1) Never trust what LE say about the law when it has anything to do with them doing something wrong. Of course they want their subjects to think it's illegal to gather proof of their misdeeds...

    2) When you make a claim you are the one that provides the prove. It's not up to us to prove you wrong - just not how it works. And remember: LEOs and DAs lie about the law regularly, so word of mouth doesn't count as proof.

    3) Welcome to the forums! Always glad to see new faces... err... avatars around here.
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    LostCoast wrote:
    It was word of mouth from local police in Camarillo,

    I have yet to verify it and may do so soon. I was told it also may impede the investigation and that also can be used against you.

    I am also pretty sure you have to announce to them you are recording video or audio before doing so.

    I am open to proof otherwise...
    1) Never trust what LE say about the law when it has anything to do with them doing something wrong. Of course they want their subjects to think it's illegal to gather proof of their misdeeds...

    2) When you make a claim you are the one that provides the prove. It's not up to us to prove you wrong - just not how it works. And remember: LEOs and DAs lie about the law regularly, so word of mouth doesn't count as proof.

    3) Welcome to the forums! Always glad to see new faces... err... avatars around here.
    I understand, but it is the first step in learning, right from the horse's mouth since you may be arrested. I will look into the proof asap and report back. I will keep a lid on my opinion here.

    Its also good to put something out there to be made aware it's not law. I will now add an opinion disclaimer if I have no actual proof.

    Glad to be a part of this fine community.

    If anyone wants to start a local Ventura County OCgroup let me know.

    be sure to watch NRA NEWS at http://www.nranews.com M-F 6pm to 9pm and support the CRPA (cali rifle and pistol association)



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    awesomeness wrote:
    yes it is legal just review the penal code(cause of the school gun free zone ect.). I have talked to the PD, they are not friendly to the idea and claim they will detain you at gun point and kill you if you make any wrong moves. If you talk to them on the phone, they will just humor you, if you send a letter they will respond but not in a postive way. Alsoif you do send a letter, be careful on how its worded. I also talked to the CA BOF(also not the best source for info) and they said its legal with restrictions and the local PD will do what they can to prevent you from exerising your right but in a email they were very vague.

    I also live in the area(NP) and as long as you understand the risk carry on. Please encourage people to join seeing more people with you less harassment from LE, maybe have a OC event like in other counties. Just make sure you have a attorney ready and have recording devices nearby. Keep us updated on you situation.
    If you are going to tell someone "yes it is legal" please, at the very least, make sure you explain the difference between and when each of open unloaded carry and open loaded carry are appropriate.

    Decoligny's answer pointing the OP to the relevant materials and directing OP to read the statute's is the best answer. Simply saying open carry is legal and mentioning only the Gun Free School Zone's act as an exception can be very misleading.

    To Ranger: do as Decoligny suggested. Read the pamphlets and then read the statutes themselves to make sure you understand when and where you can Open Carry and in what condition (loaded or unloaded). While the general answer is that yes, you can Open Carry a loaded handgun in unincorporated areas, and can Open Carry an unloaded handgun in incorporated areas there are several no go zones (National Parks, but that may change, school zones, possibly post offices, private property that has been posted as not allowing guns etc.) and other "details" that you should know about. It is the details, and not understanding them, that will get you in trouble.




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    sjalterego, sorry i forgot to mentionthe difference of open carry and unloaded open carry along with citing the penal code. I figured the open carry pamplet covered it and the previous posts answered the question.


    LostCoast wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    LostCoast wrote:
    It was word of mouth from local police in Camarillo,

    I have yet to verify it and may do so soon. I was told it also may impede the investigation and that also can be used against you.

    I am also pretty sure you have to announce to them you are recording video or audio before doing so.

    I am open to proof otherwise...
    1) Never trust what LE say about the law when it has anything to do with them doing something wrong. Of course they want their subjects to think it's illegal to gather proof of their misdeeds...

    2) When you make a claim you are the one that provides the prove. It's not up to us to prove you wrong - just not how it works. And remember: LEOs and DAs lie about the law regularly, so word of mouth doesn't count as proof.

    3) Welcome to the forums! Always glad to see new faces... err... avatars around here.
    I understand, but it is the first step in learning, right from the horse's mouth since you may be arrested. I will look into the proof asap and report back. I will keep a lid on my opinion here.

    Its also good to put something out there to be made aware it's not law. I will now add an opinion disclaimer if I have no actual proof.

    Glad to be a part of this fine community.

    If anyone wants to start a local Ventura County OCgroup let me know.

    be sure to watch NRA NEWS at http://www.nranews.com M-F 6pm to 9pm and support the CRPA (cali rifle and pistol association)
    Yes the cops tend to lie, they of justify their lies for the name of public safety(similar to the brady camp). Also I am very interested in a local ventura county Open Carry group/events. Other counties in the northern CA area created these OC events at local food places. Maybe if we can get afew to open carry might change the view of firearms in the local area. Seems the LA times story has helped our cause.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    sjalterego wrote:
    awesomeness wrote:
    yes it is legal just review the penal code(cause of the school gun free zone ect.). I have talked to the PD, they are not friendly to the idea and claim they will detain you at gun point and kill you if you make any wrong moves. If you talk to them on the phone, they will just humor you, if you send a letter they will respond but not in a postive way. Alsoif you do send a letter, be careful on how its worded. I also talked to the CA BOF(also not the best source for info) and they said its legal with restrictions and the local PD will do what they can to prevent you from exerising your right but in a email they were very vague.

    I also live in the area(NP) and as long as you understand the risk carry on. Please encourage people to join seeing more people with you less harassment from LE, maybe have a OC event like in other counties. Just make sure you have a attorney ready and have recording devices nearby. Keep us updated on you situation.
    If you are going to tell someone "yes it is legal" please, at the very least, make sure you explain the difference between and when each of open unloaded carry and open loaded carry are appropriate.

    Decoligny's answer pointing the OP to the relevant materials and directing OP to read the statute's is the best answer. Simply saying open carry is legal and mentioning only the Gun Free School Zone's act as an exception can be very misleading.

    To Ranger: do as Decoligny suggested. Read the pamphlets and then read the statutes themselves to make sure you understand when and where you can Open Carry and in what condition (loaded or unloaded). While the general answer is that yes, you can Open Carry a loaded handgun in unincorporated areas, and can Open Carry an unloaded handgun in incorporated areas there are several no go zones (National Parks, but that may change, school zones, possibly post offices, private property that has been posted as not allowing guns etc.) and other "details" that you should know about. It is the details, and not understanding them, that will get you in trouble.


    Definitely Post Offices are off limits. Most people think "maybe post offices" due to the U.S. Code Title 18 Part 1 Cahpter 44 Section 930 dealing with Federal Facilities. This however doesn't cover post offices.

    Post Offices are covered under their own specific section of the Code of Federal Regulations, specifically Title 39 Volume 1 Section 232.1 (l) which makes it an offense to carry a firearm either openly or concelaed upon postal property except for official purposes. Official purposes mean those who carry a weapon for official duty, i.e. LEO, or Postal Inspectors.

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    Decoligny wrote:
    Definitely Post Offices are off limits. Most people think "maybe post offices" due to the U.S. Code Title 18 Part 1 Cahpter 44 Section 930 dealing with Federal Facilities. This however doesn't cover post offices.

    Post Offices are covered under their own specific section of the Code of Federal Regulations, specifically Title 39 Volume 1 Section 232.1 (l) which makes it an offense to carry a firearm either openly or concelaed upon postal property except for official purposes. Official purposes mean those who carry a weapon for official duty, i.e. LEO, or Postal Inspectors.
    Thanks for clearing that up. I thought so but couldn't be absolutely positive off the top of my head and didn't want to make an assertion I wasn't positive about.

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    Without written permission from the person you want to catch, you cannot tape record or video any type of conversation with that person. The tape video will not be permissible in a court of law.

    True example: One of the Oil platforms that was off our coast here, caught on video tape a boat that was dumping 55 gallon drums of oil around the platform. The boat was registered to a well-known environmental group, and some of the people on board were identified by video.

    A very liberal Judge on this basis dismissed the video that there was no written consent from the parties in the video.

    Now if you videotape on your property, that is different compared to public domain.

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    hrdplay wrote:

    True example: One of the Oil platforms that was off our coast here, caught on video tape a boat that was dumping 55 gallon drums of oil around the platform. The boat was registered to a well-known environmental group, and some of the people on board were identified by video.

    A very liberal Judge on this basis dismissed the video that there was no written consent from the parties in the video.

    When did that happen?

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    hrdplay wrote:
    Without written permission from the person you want to catch, you cannot tape record or video any type of conversation with that person. The tape video will not be permissible in a court of law.

    True example: One of the Oil platforms that was off our coast here, caught on video tape a boat that was dumping 55 gallon drums of oil around the platform. The boat was registered to a well-known environmental group, and some of the people on board were identified by video.

    A very liberal Judge on this basis dismissed the video that there was no written consent from the parties in the video.

    Now if you videotape on your property, that is different compared to public domain.
    Again, this is complete and utter FUD.

    If this were true, then every single security camera that ever caught a criminal act in progress, without getting the written permission of the accused criminal, could not be used in court.

    For this to be anything other than "Well, my brother's friend's cousin's coworker's sister said she saw it happen", we need an actual CITATION. What was the actual case in question exampleMcPherson v. Greenpeace 1962?)

    You don't post a CITATION because one probably doesn't exist.

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    Obviously you did not comprehend what I wrote. No it is not BULL ****. I don’t remember the case but it was about 18 years ago when I was still working in the oil industry as a commercial diver. I know it was one case of many that was used to shut down off shore drilling here in California.



    As for security cameras in stores etc., two things. You imply consent when entering a place of business and also signs are posted that videotape surveillance is used at said place of business.



    Also and most important it is up to the discretion of the presiding judge to allow videotape or audiotape to be entered into evidence.



  20. #20
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    hrdplay wrote:
    Without written permission from the person you want to catch, you cannot tape record or video any type of conversation with that person.The tape video will not be permissible in a court of law.



    hrdplay wrote:
    Also and most important it is up to the discretion of the presiding judge to allow videotape or audiotape to be entered into evidence.

    OK so which is it?

    Is it not admissible? Or is it at the judges discretion?

    Is it legal? Or is it illegal?

    Are we to believe you just because you say it is so? Or are we to apply the same standard that we apply to everyone else when referring to legal matters (i.e. POST CITATIONS)?



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    I don't care how adamantly you claim the veracity of your claims... I could just as easily and just as adamantly claim that you can use hidden cameras to record people. I could just as easily say I know a guy who did this and not only was he not prosecuted for such, it was admitted as evidence.

    If you want to be taken seriously, you must back up your claims with facts. Facts can be checked. Most of us here aren't sheeple that believe everything they hear. We like to research and verify. (If we didn't we would still think open carry is illegal, as we have all been told by various 'authorities.')
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    New guy here. This is my first time out, so I hope I'm not dorking anything up?. In any event, I too live in Camarillo (small world) and have lived here since 1963 when it was a nice ag community before the current and somehow always elected city council trashed it. The police in this town as you know are rented from the county (by contract) and have always maintained a "police should only be armed" attitude. A majority of our police are from the area and the worst offense seen by our fearless men in uniform is skateboarders racing through Albertson's parking lot. Not a lot of L.A. type action here abouts and the cops get their undies in a bunch in the rare domestic dispute call (which usually requires 4 patrol cars and 2 fire trucks). I would refer to the advice of an attorney and as a kicker, notify the police as to your intent and get their reaction. i.e., To: commanding officer in charge Camarillo Police Dept. C/O Ventura Co. SD, my name is __________and I am a resident of Camarillo and I am ___ years old. I legally own a ______pistol/hand gun registered to me in which I have qualified for under state law. It is my intent to carry my weapon unconcealed and unloaded at times and places under my own discretion with the exception to places where state law does not permit firearms. Should you have any objection or legal issues with my intent as mentioned, please feel free to contact me at anytime. Otherwise I will conclude that you do not object or have any legal grounds in which to deny me my rights to carry my weapon and I look forward in receiving no harassment from the police for exercising my constitutional rights. Thank You,________.

    Just a thought??

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    alwaysalert wrote:
    New guy here. This is my first time out, so I hope I'm not dorking anything up?. In any event, I too live in Camarillo (small world) and have lived here since 1963 when it was a nice ag community before the current and somehow always elected city council trashed it. The police in this town as you know are rented from the county (by contract) and have always maintained a "police should only be armed" attitude. A majority of our police are from the area and the worst offense seen by our fearless men in uniform is skateboarders racing through Albertson's parking lot. Not a lot of L.A. type action here abouts and the cops get their undies in a bunch in the rare domestic dispute call (which usually requires 4 patrol cars and 2 fire trucks). I would refer to the advice of an attorney and as a kicker, notify the police as to your intent and get their reaction. i.e., To: commanding officer in charge Camarillo Police Dept. C/O Ventura Co. SD, my name is __________and I am a resident of Camarillo and I am ___ years old. I legally own a ______pistol/hand gun registered to me in which I have qualified for under state law. It is my intent to carry my weapon unconcealed and unloaded at times and places under my own discretion with the exception to places where state law does not permit firearms. Should you have any objection or legal issues with my intent as mentioned, please feel free to contact me at anytime. Otherwise I will conclude that you do not object or have any legal grounds in which to deny me my rights to carry my weapon and I look forward in receiving no harassment from the police for exercising my constitutional rights. Thank You,________.

    Just a thought??



    Very good point to make them aware but you will still get harassed until all police get to know you. Don't think they will stop the harassment because of a notice, they may be told to continue until stopped by the courts.

    I also live in Camarillo and would like to video tape OC encounters and get them on the Cable Access channel, local newsif possible, or into court for rights violations, harassment, defamation of characterand such.

    We need a group to go out in numbers to keep the witnesses in larger numbers so we don't get railroaded with false charges.

    I am ready to have meetings once a month somewhere and get this started, you with me? anybody?





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    Keep me informed! I have no problem with using a camera and I might even sport my sidearm for G-pees. One question (legal in nature), the city of Camarillo would draft an ordinance against OC in a heartbeat at the request of the police just to do you in. Is the City allowed to do this? Or would that ordinance be in violation of the 2E?

    Alwaysalert.

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    alwaysalert wrote:
    Keep me informed! I have no problem with using a camera and I might even sport my sidearm for G-pees. One question (legal in nature), the city of Camarillo would draft an ordinance against OC in a heartbeat at the request of the police just to do you in. Is the City allowed to do this? Or would that ordinance be in violation of the 2E?

    Alwaysalert.
    You mean the 2A. And I have a theory on this topic of local ordinances against open carry.

    I dont believe they could make open carry illegal. Here's why.

    Our State Constitution has what is known as pre-emption.
    ARTICLE 3 STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    SEC. 1. The State of California is an inseparable part of the
    United States of America, and the United States Constitution is the
    supreme law of the land.
    The second amendment is still a part of the U.S. Constitution and it could be argued to be a 'general law'.

    ARTICLE 4 LEGISLATIVE

    SEC. 16. (a) All laws of a general nature have uniform operation.
    (b) A local or special statute is invalid in any case if a general
    statute can be made applicable.
    General laws all have to operate the same, if a general statute can be made applicable the local statute is invalid. The State law, pre-empts the local one by having supremacy.
    ARTICLE 11 LOCAL GOVERNMENT

    SEC. 7. A county or city may make and enforce within its limits all
    local, police, sanitary, and other ordinances and regulations not in
    conflict with general laws.
    A city or county cannot make or enforce an ordinance that is in conflict with general laws.And to this I will add that we not only have the second amendment as a general law, but also have the California State penal code telling us that various forms of carry, possession and transportation of a firearm are already legal.

    Including but not limited to-

    12025 (f), 12025.5 (a), 12026 (a)&(b), 12026.1, 12026.2, 12027, 12031 (exceptions listed therein) as well as 12050 (a)(1)(A)(ii).


    So then, the only way open carry could be made illegal is in the State legislature- not by county and city ordinances. With a favorable ruling from SCOTUS, even the State legislature would be hard pressed to stifle peacable exposed carry.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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