Sharp Shooters

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Folks, Robin'sresponse to me was:

"As for the store, you can carry in here. I would never propose anything that would disarm you or any responsible gun owner."

WOOHOO! Thanks Robin!:celebrate

I offered some common sense policies that I'm sure are already in place such asno trying of holsters with loaded weapons, etc.She really appreciates the level of what we're doing here and I sent her links to OCDO, theWashington State Forum, a pdf of the WGR Flyer and the AG's opinion on Terry Stop.

She is very reasonable and extremely passionateaboutall aspects of gun ownershipespecially self-defense and we definitelyagree on a lot of points.I also asked her to perhaps put out some WGR Flyers in her store, on me.

I'll let you know more as it comes, but it's safe to say that Sharp Shooters is OC Friendly!

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I thought it was a bit odd since I always OC into the Marksman Range. Glad she is willing to allow OC.

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As much as I do not like driving to Post Falls for their classes and range, I will continue to do such until Sharp Shooters changes the policy. There are just too many other places to shop for guns to go somewhere that will not respect my RTKBA. I got dealers in town who can order me anything I need, and they allow me to open carry at anytime in their shop.

Why is it ok that at Sharp Shooters, the employees OC, but they do not let their customers do it? How do you think somebody who is not comfortable with guns feels about that when they walk in there? I would think that is almost as intimidating as any other stranger with a gun.

Just because they work at a gun range/shop does not mean that makes people more comfortable around firearms. To somebody who is uncomfortable around it, the employee is still a stranger with a gun. If I was a business owner, I would certainly not expect my customers give me their business if I felt like I could not put them, and their rights, ahead of my employees.

Seems to me that for somebody who is pro 2A, she definitely needs to think about protecting the individuals RTKBA, the whole thing, and not just the part that suits her. A lot of people say that "If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem". This is an instance where I definitely agree with that assesment.

In my eyes, somebody who defends the Constutution with a certain and comfortableprejudice, is not really defending it. While I respect an individuals right to set the rules on their own property, I won't send anybody there, or shop there, if they vehemently put me or my friends/acqauintances at risk by not allowing my firearm. I will gladly take my business elsewhere, which is what I have already done. It is worth it for me to drive a bit further to support a business that supports what I believe in.

Like I said though, I do hope they change the policy. But just as importantly, I hope they reflect on the issue and the big picture. It would be a shame for them to change the policy for open carriers, but do it only for the financial benefit, and not to support gun owners all across the board.

I mean, it's different strokes for different folks, but we are all in this battle to defend the entire Constitution together.

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OOps. Looks like the thread was updated and now OC is OK. Yeahh:celebrate:celebrate

Disregard some of the previous post I made, but on't disregard all of it, as I did put a lot of thought into what I just said.

BOB, you rule!!!!! You have only been in town a few weeks and your helping us get stuff done. We all owe you a box of ammo, a beer or some hotwings, and a great big thank you!!!

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When a business that relies on Gun Owners for their livlihood become "Gun Unfriendly" they will eventually learn the error of their ways. They will just go broke.

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Semper Paratus wrote:

Different Counter guy: those need to be in a case or even a walmart bag. you can't shoot that Tokarov here.

ME: ok but I shot it on Sat. and it is a CZ 52. Why can I not shoot it?

CG: too much penetration. good for bad guys with body armor bad for backstops.

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I was wondering about that part...

on their website at http://www.sharpshooting.net/range_info.asp
under Range Features, the words All Handgun Calibers are listed
doesn't this mean that they should have allowed you to shoot your Tokarov?

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SlacK wrote:

Semper Paratus wrote:

Different Counter guy: those need to be in a case or even a walmart bag. you can't shoot that Tokarov here.

ME: ok but I shot it on Sat. and it is a CZ 52. Why can I not shoot it?

CG: too much penetration. good for bad guys with body armor bad for backstops.

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I was wondering about that part...

on their website at http://www.sharpshooting.net/range_info.asp
under Range Features, the words All Handgun Calibers are listed
doesn't this mean that they should have allowed you to shoot your Tokarov?

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Well, why don't we just ask!If we seea conflict or something that just doesn't make sense,let's present it to Robin with some data and/or alternatives so she can make a decision on the subject.



The more I find out about her, the more I likeher! ANYBODY that speaks out AGAINST Gal-Qaeda (MMM'ers) is OK in my book!Here she is speaking against the Million Mom March on May 12, 2000and FOR enforcement of existing laws and AGAINST new gun legislation! Go Robin!

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june00/moms_5-12.html

She's also the NRA's Election Voting Coordinator for the WA-005 district among other things: http://www.nrapvf.org/Elections/State.Aspx?State=Wa

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Fantastic news. This place is only about 3-5 minutes from my house, and my place of work. So the convenience is nice.

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SlacK wrote:

Semper Paratus wrote:

Different Counter guy: those need to be in a case or even a walmart bag. you can't shoot that Tokarov here.

ME: ok but I shot it on Sat. and it is a CZ 52. Why can I not shoot it?

CG: too much penetration. good for bad guys with body armor bad for backstops.

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I was wondering about that part...

on their website at http://www.sharpshooting.net/range_info.asp
under Range Features, the words All Handgun Calibers are listed
doesn't this mean that they should have allowed you to shoot your Tokarov?

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It actually makes sense. The 7.62x25 Tokarev round is a "big penetrator" as seen on The Box O' Truth: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm

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surfj9009 wrote:

OOps. Looks like the thread was updated and now OC is OK. Yeahh:celebrate:celebrate

Disregard some of the previous post I made, but on't disregard all of it, as I did put a lot of thought into what I just said.

BOB, you rule!!!!! You have only been in town a few weeks and your helping us get stuff done. We all owe you a box of ammo, a beer or some hotwings, and a great big thank you!!!

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Always glad to help! I just wrote a couple e-mails, thethanks go to Robin and the best way to thank her would be to give her our support and business!

All it took was a couple respectful and intelligent e-mails and anyone of you could have done the same thing. Let'skeep on doing thisandmovingthe OC front lines forward!Find a place that doesn't allow OC,write a letter and keep trying.Can't write? Steal my letter and customize it,I don't care!

You didmake some very valid points and they're appreciated. If not necessary here, perhaps someone can benefit from your wisdom later.

Don't worry about the ammo,but I'll take the beer and wings though...I'm not stupid! lol

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UPDATE: NO OC IN SHARPSHOOTERS (for now!)


I just heard back from Robin and she clarified that when she wrote:

"As for the store, you can carry in here. I would never propose anything that would disarm you or any responsible gun owner."

she was referring to CC and as such, their policy has not changed as of yet.

Those of you who CC or case into the store, please continue to do so. Those of you who only OC, that is a decision you'll have to make. I would ask you folks to please respect her wishes until such time as she changes the policy.

But relax, it ain't over yet folks, we are in a great discussion and I gave her a LOT of information to digest. It may take a little time. Please don't blast or flame her, just continue to do what you've been doing. Robin is a great ally to have and genuinely on our side as her e-mail will show. Here is her last e-mail to me:

Bob,wow, this is fun! I love the exchange. I do need to clarify that we have not had a policy change in the store (yet). When I said you can carry here, I should have specified CC and I apologize for that.This has generated lots of talk with my staff though and that is really good. For the moment, CC only. We are still having healthy debate internally and I will happily keep you posted. Whether it is OC or CC that people prefer, I respect those decisions. Your “Long” message is incredibly well thought out and articulate and I am happy to know that there are people like you out there to continue the battle to protect our rights and responsibilities. There was nothing you said that I would disagree with.

Stay in touch and stay tuned. You may see a revision of our policy internally. As for now though, I hope your group will respect our current policy, and understand that I have stood at the front of this battle publicly for years. I will continue to do so. And I say that as I prepare to present “Marketing Self-Defense” for the National Shooting Sports Summit in Colorado Springs later this month. Your email and the posts of your fellow OCers has given me great info for my presentation. I think it is important that we have lots and lots of OC and CC out there in the country. We are better off working together for the common good than boycotting and badmouthing each other. I do believe there is strength in numbers and firepower.

As to you, thanks for serving to protect our country. I hope our upcoming generation can hold a candle to the many who have served. My husband retired with 30 years and three of my four kids have either served or are currently serving.

Let me know if you get any Intel on the mental health thing with McKenna. By the way, WAC brings me over to their gun show to teach occasionally.

You are welcome to post any of my messages to you. I have nothing to hide from anyone (including my gun if I so choose!).

Robin

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More to come as soon as I know it and I'll post my reply to heras soom as I craft it!

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Good stuff, Bob!

Keep up the good work. Sounds like they're having a healthy discussion about it at the shop and may even be educating some of the employees on the legalities of OC.

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just_a_car wrote:

Good stuff, Bob!

Keep up the good work. Sounds like they're having a healthy discussion about it at the shop and may even be educating some of the employees on the legalities of OC.

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I know and that's even better! As we know there are some hard core "CC ONLY" types out there and maybe one or two in her store, but facts are facts.

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BobCav wrote:

just_a_car wrote:

Good stuff, Bob!

Keep up the good work. Sounds like they're having a healthy discussion about it at the shop and may even be educating some of the employees on the legalities of OC.

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I know and that's even better! As we know there are some hard core "CC ONLY" types out there and maybe one or two in her store, but facts are facts.

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I think the open discussion amongst their employees isactually the mostimportant part. I have already learned from multiple people that they thought OC was illegal because they were told it was by people in SharpShooting (in fact I had to literally take one online to the RCW main site and show him it was in fact legal, he wouldn't accept the pamphlet as truth ). So even if they don't allow it to occur in their store,it might help stop the passing of false information from that location.

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David.Car wrote:

BobCav wrote:

just_a_car wrote:

Good stuff, Bob!

Keep up the good work. Sounds like they're having a healthy discussion about it at the shop and may even be educating some of the employees on the legalities of OC.

Click to expand...

I know and that's even better! As we know there are some hard core "CC ONLY" types out there and maybe one or two in her store, but facts are facts.

Click to expand...

I think the open discussion amongst their employees isactually the mostimportant part. I have already learned from multiple people that they thought OC was illegal because they were told it was by people in SharpShooting (in fact I had to literally take one online to the RCW main site and show him it was in fact legal, he wouldn't accept the pamphlet as truth ). So even if they don't allow it to occur in their store,it might help stop the passing of false information from that location.

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David, thanks!I just passed your last post directly to Robin as that is perhaps even more important than OC in the store.I'll guarantee she doesn't want the wrong info regarding firearms laws coming from her staff. It goese against everything she believes in.When customers eventually find out that it was wrong info, they won't trust the source any longer and that equals lost business. Business is all about trust.

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BobCav wrote:

David, thanks!I just passed your last post directly to Robin as that is perhaps even more important than OC in the store.I'll guarantee she doesn't want the wrong info regarding firearms laws coming from her staff. It goese against everything she believes in.When customers eventually find out that it was wrong info, they won't trust the source any longer and that equals lost business. Business is all about trust.

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Good. I hope it helps. I myself have only been in SharpShooting a handfull of times (although I have taken one of their safety courses - bout 4 years ago). But one of the people who told me that he was told in their that OC was illegal is a close close friend of mine for over a decade. He actually walked into the store OC and he was told what he was doing was illegal.

What surprised me is that he just believed them flat out and never bothered to look it up. This guy is the epitome of guns and gun knowledge within my group of friends. Works in the General Store firearms section. Has hunting property with his father and goes out every season. Visits the gun shows and such.

So when I talked to him about OC (after I just found out about it 2-3 weeks ago) it was kinda funny having to pull out the RCWs and show him that it was legal.

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David.Car wrote:

BobCav wrote:

David, thanks!I just passed your last post directly to Robin as that is perhaps even more important than OC in the store.I'll guarantee she doesn't want the wrong info regarding firearms laws coming from her staff. It goese against everything she believes in.When customers eventually find out that it was wrong info, they won't trust the source any longer and that equals lost business. Business is all about trust.

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Good. I hope it helps. I myself have only been in SharpShooting a handfull of times (although I have taken one of their safety courses - bout 4 years ago). But one of the people who told me that he was told in their that OC was illegal is a close close friend of mine for over a decade. He actually walked into the store OC and he was told what he was doing was illegal.

What surprised me is that he just believed them flat out and never bothered to look it up. This guy is the epitome of guns and gun knowledge within my group of friends. Works in the General Store firearms section. Has hunting property with his father and goes out every season. Visits the gun shows and such.

So when I talked to him about OC (after I just found out about it 2-3 weeks ago) it was kinda funny having to pull out the RCWs and show him that it was legal.

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Already fixed that one. Hers's Robin's reply:

Yep, and I have reined that in. (I think). I uncovered the source, taken care of it and we should all be on the same page. As for us not believing a pamphlet, anyone can produce anything. I am a firm believer in trust but verify. There is a ton of bad info out there.

Thanks for keeping us in line, Ican use all the help I can get!

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And with regard to the door sign:

I just sent an email to our staff for input on re-working our stop sign on the door. We do want it to reflect our policy better than it does. We have also been on the phone to other ranges and dealers to get a read on what they are doing. The more we talk about this stuff the better we can frame the issue with logic versus fear.

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So, the bottom line throughout this exchange is that OC is not welcome at Sharp Shooters at this time, do I have that right?

It is nice that things are possibly moving towards it becoming acceptable to Robin and her employess, but as it stands now if I were to go in there OC I would be told to cover up or remove my gun, or remove myself.

At least the conversation is taking place, and change may be down the road. I will keep a watch on Sharp Shooters and if they change their policy to allow OC I will go in there and spend money. It is only fair to reward businesses that promote not only the 2A but the right to OC.

bob

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BobR wrote:

So, the bottom line throughout this exchange is that OC is not welcome at Sharp Shooters at this time, do I have that right?

It is nice that things are possibly moving towards it becoming acceptable to Robin and her employess, but as it stands now if I were to go in there OC I would be told to cover up or remove my gun, or remove myself.

At least the conversation is taking place, and change may be down the road. I will keep a watch on Sharp Shooters and if they change their policy to allow OC I will go in there and spend money. It is only fair to reward businesses that promote not only the 2A but the right to OC.

bob

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Bob, you are correct, for now. I think that she now sees OC as another very effective tool in the Gun Rights toolbox that she hadn't before considered. Her policy wan't formed overnight and it may take a bit of time to change it, if that's what she so decides.

We've already helped in stemming the tide of bad info coming from a staff member that "OC is illegal in WA", so that's already a victory for OC!

I do hope the policy changes so we can all show up, rent some range time and show her our appreciation!

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BobCav wrote:

We've already helped in stemming the tide of bad info coming from a staff member that "OC is illegal in WA", so that's already a victory for OC!

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Considering that this is probably the most well known firearm location/range in the Spokane area, getting the information coming out of there changed so quickly is a big deal. That is enough to get me interested in spending some time in there.