Gangbangers At Shooting Ranges

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Had a couple of side PM conversations regarding another post and it led me to post this combination rant/observation/question.


I went to a range not that long ago in the San Fernando Valley. While shooting, my buddy pointed out a gang member a few lanes down. No racial profiling involved, he had a big prison tattoo on his neck proclaiming his affiliation. Anyway, my buddy was laughing because the guy was blasting away with a .45 at a silhouette target, 25 feet away and couldn't hit it. the reason was that he was holding the gun sideways (90 degree angle) like the gangsters do in the movies. My buddy jokingly suggested I go over there and help him out. I actually thought about it for a couple of minutes, then decided the last thing I wanted to do was teach some potential crimnal how to shoot straight!

Anyway, this brought to mind gang members and PC12021.[/i][/b] I can't find the actual statute text and I'm getting a SQL error when I try a search on this board, but as I recall, this prohibits carry while on the way to commit felonies and also has something to do with gang crimes. Would that statute prohibit identified or convicted gang members from posession at a gun range? If you're a convicted felon, aren't you prohibited from shooting at a range?

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Mechanic wrote:

Had a couple of side PM conversations regarding another post and it led me to post this combination rant/observation/question.


I went to a range not that long ago in the San Fernando Valley. While shooting, my buddy pointed out a gang member a few lanes down. No racial profiling involved, he had a big prison tattoo on his neck proclaiming his affiliation. Anyway, my buddy was laughing because the guy was blasting away with a .45 at a silhouette target, 25 feet away and couldn't hit it. the reason was that he was holding the gun sideways (90 degree angle) like the gangsters do in the movies. My buddy jokingly suggested I go over there and help him out. I actually thought about it for a couple of minutes, then decided the last thing I wanted to do was teach some potential crimnal how to shoot straight!

Anyway, this brought to mind gang members and PC12021.[/i][/b] I can't find the actual statute text and I'm getting a SQL error when I try a search on this board, but as I recall, this prohibits carry while on the way to commit felonies and also has something to do with gang crimes. Would that statute prohibit identified or convicted gang members from posession at a gun range? If you're a convicted felon, aren't you prohibited from shooting at a range?

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I think you are probably thinking about 12021.5 which has several references to during the commission or attempted commission of street gang crimes.

I don't think there is any prohibition for someone just because they are a gang member. Most of the laws apply to sentence enhancement.

As far as a convicted felon you are prohibited from possessing a firearm.

If this guy was either savvy enough to aviod being caught committing a felony, or had only been convicted of misdemeanors, then he very well could be legally entitled to own and fire a gun.

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If this guy was a felon, he would not be allowed to possess (even at a range) a weapon...

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You're right, Decoligny, 12021.5 was the area I was looking for.

My head may be merging 12021.5 with the local LA gang injunctions. The injunctions are typicaly geographical, but I read a civil liberties discussion that said the injunctions appeared to suspend certain Bill of Rights protections for named individuals who had not been convicted of a crime. Fascinating stuff, but not my intent to get into that here.

I should probably also clarify for others that I wasn't really questioning that particular guy's rights (I was making fun of him, though). As you point out, he could be savvy, bold, or simply exercising the same rights I was. Again, not really my intent to connect the experience at the range and gang questions, but that's the way it came out.

Thanks for the input.

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I'm curious: What exactly did the tat say? How did you know he was a gangmember? Bald head's, wifebeaters, and tats aren't enough. Are you sure he was a thug? ..you can tell by the tats. Geographic locations, letters, numbers, old english script, ie 13. etc. So what did it say?

You talking about firingline range? Im a member there. Anyway, I always see wanna be tough guys shooting there w/ their girlfriends. I never see "REAL" gangsters. You know, the hardened veterans that look really scary. I grew up around thugs all my life. IMHO, real gangsters who commit crimes don't wast their time at the range. It's too expensive and they could get "pinched" because they have to sign in and provide a thumb print. The "gangsters" you see there are usually the guys who were never in one and like to play the part because their cousin is in jail or something stupid like that.
However, there IS one group who I see at the range allot in Burbank and Northridge that "thug it up" inside the range as well as outside. They're commonly referred to as the group that occupies Glendale, Ca. I won't name names and be "racist" but I've had to deal with mean mugs and stare downs from this "group' on many occasions. It happens when i leave. They dog me as they bump music from their 7 series BMW. It's quite hilarious! Don't they realize i don't fear them? I'm packin' some 45 caliber madness sucka! lol So, beware of these sort of middle eastern thugs. I'm Filipino (asian), bald headed. Medium build. Dressed normally. I never have issues w/ my latin or black brothers. But the "Glendale" dudes always try to start beef. I dont' get it. Maybe they're jealous of my nice Kimber. lol.

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The last time I saw 'gangbangers' practicing shooting they were at an elementary school at about 10:00 PM shooting beer bottles off a fence. I'm assuming they were gang members because that's pretty much the only people on the street in this particular neighborhood after dark.

Stockton police failed to respond in the roughly 1-hr period that they were out there shooting, so I can't confirm they were in fact gang members. (One unit arrived about 2 hours after I reported the shooting, but didn't even get out of their car.)

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Maybe you should have given the banger some pointers. At least maybe that way if he did start shooting at another banger, he might hit the intended target instead of some poor innocent person in the target's vincinity. That seems to be the way it goes with those type of shooters.

End sarcasm. I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.

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At the range I worked at in NH, we saw gangbangers/wanna be gangbangers on a regular basis. however, as long as they followed the rules, and behaved themselves, we had no problem with them. That, and if my boss saw them, he'd give the local PD a call, and they'd do a little background investigation to see if any of them were wanted or weren't supposed to be handling firearms. Occasionally there'd be a little "altercation" when said thugs left the building.

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KimberTLEallday! wrote:

I'm curious: What exactly did the tat say? How did you know he was a gangmember? Bald head's, wifebeaters, and tats aren't enough. Are you sure he was a thug? ..you can tell by the tats. Geographic locations, letters, numbers, old english script, ie 13. etc. So what did it say?

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As I recall, it was a large Olde English 13 on the throat or back of the neck, which would be probably be the Pacas 13 or the San Fers. Gang member? I sure don't know for certain, but let's just say I wasn't going to aske him who he runs with!

I've had friends from out of town (usually anglo and middle class) ask if I was afraid of being killed by a gang member and I've always said "not really" because I a) avoid getting number tattooed on my face, b) don't flash gang signs at ANYONE, and C) don't buy drugs from my car late at night. In other words, avoid doing stupid stuff and the risk is minimal. It's like Bill Engvall says, "Here's your sign!" :lol:

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Whoah! a 13 on the neck? Ya that's pretty gangster. hahaha. I agree, it's best not to make prolonged eye contact w/ those kind of guys or even try to start a converstaion.

Killed by gangmembers? Hmm. I agree also. Growing up in Los Angeles you realize if you leave them alone they'll leave you alone. Don't hang out in areas where a large group of them are hanging out and you'll be fine.


Cool man. Good story.

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I was under the impression that "13" was MS 13 and they are very likely the worst latin gang around with multinational presence and a real track record for really bad behavior. You don't wear in "13" unless you're one of 'em I imagine or you'd suffer the consequence.

please refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS13

excerpt / summary:

Mara Salvatrucha
Years active 1980 - present
Territory Mostly Central America, United States, Europe
Ethnicity Mostly Hispanic
Membership 100,000+
Criminal activities Drug trafficking, robbery, extortion, gun trafficking, murder, contract killing, etc.

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Don't judge a book by it's cover, Just cause an individual has prison or street tats doesn't mean they are Gangbangers.

I had a partner once who looked like a Hardcore Original Gangster (OG), complete with tats up to his ears.

He was a spitting image of Edward James Olmos, most Harden look I've ever seen, butt ugly with more tats that your typical gangbanger.

only differance, was he had a Badge! Best damm officer I ever worked and very intelligent!

Once we connected and trusted each other, I got around to asking him about his past. turns out he grew up in the ghetto. and was destined to lead the criminal lifestyle. until one day he and several others were hanging out when a rival gang did a driveby and killed the guy next to him. that was his wake up call to change.

later that year (late 70's) he joined the military, Straightened himself out, got off drugs, and put as much distance bewteen the gang lifestsyle as possible, once he finished his military commitment, he picked up a job in LE, and has been one of there best assests.

Even new FNG's are always asking if he "Works here" or asking for his Identification.

only thing that sucks being him, is he is often profiled (because of his tats) and harrassed by other LE agencies, until they learn of his true profession.

Best partner I ever worked with, even real hardened criminals were scared to death of this officer. and often worked in his favor, or knew how to make it work for him with little or not effort.

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We have roving gangs here in Castle Rock as well...oh wait, those are pronghorns....

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563 wrote:

Don't judge a book by it's cover, Just cause an individual has prison or street tats doesn't mean they are Gangbangers.

I had a partner once who looked like a Hardcore Original Gangster (OG), complete with tats up to his ears.

He was a spitting image of Edward James Olmos, most Harden look I've ever seen, butt ugly with more tats that your typical gangbanger.

only differance, was he had a Badge! Best damm officer I ever worked and very intelligent!

Once we connected and trusted each other, I got around to asking him about his past. turns out he grew up in the ghetto. and was destined to lead the criminal lifestyle. until one day he and several others were hanging out when a rival gang did a driveby and killed the guy next to him. that was his wake up call to change.

later that year (late 70's) he joined the military, Straightened himself out, got off drugs, and put as much distance bewteen the gang lifestsyle as possible, once he finished his military commitment, he picked up a job in LE, and has been one of there best assests.

Even new FNG's are always asking if he "Works here" or asking for his Identification.

only thing that sucks being him, is he is often profiled (because of his tats) and harrassed by other LE agencies, until they learn of his true profession.

Best partner I ever worked with, even real hardened criminals were scared to death of this officer. and often worked in his favor, or knew how to make it work for him with little or not effort.

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Yeah you can't judge a book by it's cover, but there are certain tats that will get you hurt or worse if you wear them without the membership to back them up.

The stylized "13" on the neck is one used almost exclusively by MS 13. If you wear that and aren't MS 13 you are likely to run into trouble.

The Hell's Angels also frown upon use of their "logo" as a tat on non-members. I saw an HA remove an HA tat from a non-HA's arm with his teeth.

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KimberTLEallday! wrote:

However, there IS one group who I see at the range allot in Burbank and Northridge that "thug it up" inside the range as well as outside. They're commonly referred to as the group that occupies Glendale, Ca. I won't name names and be "racist" but I've had to deal with mean mugs and stare downs from this "group' on many occasions. It happens when i leave. They dog me as they bump music from their 7 series BMW. It's quite hilarious! Don't they realize i don't fear them? I'm packin' some 45 caliber madness sucka! lol So, beware of these sort of middle eastern thugs. I'm Filipino (asian), bald headed. Medium build. Dressed normally. I never have issues w/ my latin or black brothers. But the "Glendale" dudes always try to start beef. I dont' get it. Maybe they're jealous of my nice Kimber. lol.

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I lived in Glendale a few years back, and definitely know who you are talking about... I thought they only did that to me too... must be 'cuz we're island boys....

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Decoligny wrote:

The stylized "13" on the neck is one used almost exclusively by MS 13.

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Ummm, no. "13" typically represents "M", and is commonly sported by members of the Mexican Mafia. Especially in California, a "13" tattoo is almost certainly La Eme.

MS-13 member's most common sign is the "devil horns" signs made with the hand. Turned upside down, it look like the letter M. They also typically have devil head tattoos.

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They should definitely check out my buddy COOP's art. He's a gearhead and accomplished artist. The horned devil comes up in his work regularly -- he's not a gangbanger by any means but I bet they'd dig his stuff.


the blog: http://positiveapeindex.blogspot.com/

the art: http://coopstuff.com/

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What they needs be Gangsta Trainin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqMQtgeMp6I