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Thread: "disturbing the peace" or "public nuisance" laws

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    This question stems from my city, South Jordan,being on the brink of banning any sort of projectile-launching toy that might appear like a firearm. The police complained to the city council because they got 15 "MWAG" calls in the last 18 months which turned out to be fakes (airsoft, BB, paintball, etc). Now they want the City Council to ban all those toys.That irritates me for a number of libertarian / limited government ideas and also because it reinforces the perception that non-cops with guns are bad people.

    If they decide to go ahead with the ban, I intend to launch a "police education campaign" somewhat akin to what TJ has done in WVC. I've not OC'ed up 'til now except in rare circumstances, but I think I'll start doing it at places like the library, city parks, City Hall, etc, until I feel that the police have asolid understanding of the concept of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms". I hope I don't come off like a ***** or a brat for wanting to do this. Maybe it's for all the wrong reasons: it's, at least in part, a"fine, if you say I can'thave my airsoft gun around town, then I'll just carry my real gun around town" reaction. There's a bit of me that would like to, by myself, set a new MWAG-calls record for South Jordan.

    Anyways, my question is this: What nuisance laws / disturbing the peace laws do I need to be aware of or avoid violating? I'm pretty up-to-date on the gun laws, but not sure what other things they might try to hit me with.IANAL and, consequently, not very good at tracking these things down, so I was hoping to pick your brains a bit. Anyone been threatened by police that they will charge you with _____, or know of someone who was convicted of ____ for OC'ing? Any information would be greatly appreciated.



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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Watch out for Disorderly Conduct

    76-9-102

    10-8-50. Disturbing the peace -- Public intoxication -- Fighting -- Obscene language -- Disorderly conduct -- Lewd behavior -- Interference with officers -- Trespass.


    (1) Boards of commissioners and city councils of cities may provide for the punishment of any person or persons for:
    (a) disturbing the peace or good order of the city;
    (b) disturbing the peace of any person or persons;
    (c) disturbing any lawful assembly;
    (d) public intoxication;
    (e) challenging, encouraging, or engaging in fighting;
    (f) using obscene or profane language in a place or under circumstances which could cause a breach of the peace or good order of the city;
    (g) engaging in indecent or disorderly conduct;
    (h) engaging in lewd or lascivious behavior or conduct in the city; and
    (i) interfering with any city officer in the discharge of his duty.
    (2) Boards of commissioners and city councils of cities may provide for the punishment of trespass and such other petty offenses as the board of commissioners or city council may consider proper.
    (3) (a) A woman's breast feeding, including breast feeding in any location where she otherwise may rightfully be, does not under any circumstance constitute a lewd or indecent act, irrespective of whether or not the breast is covered during or incidental to feeding.
    (b) Boards of commissioners and city councils of cities may not prohibit a woman's breast feeding in any location where she otherwise may rightfully be, irrespective of whether the breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breast feeding.

    Amended by Chapter 131, 1995 General Session

    But either way, they are a stretch, and disorderly conduct is the most common.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Hmm, wouldn't let me post both laws, Heres disorderly conduct again

    76-9-102. Disorderly conduct.

    (1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:
    (a) he refuses to comply with the lawful order of the police to move from a public place, or knowingly creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition, by any act which serves no legitimate purpose; or
    (b) intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
    (i) engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior;
    (ii) makes unreasonable noises in a public place;
    (iii) makes unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place; or
    (iv) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic.
    (2) "Public place," for the purpose of this section, means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes but is not limited to streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
    (3) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by a person to desist. Otherwise it is an infraction.

    Amended by Chapter 20, 1999 General Session

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    So what would constitute a lawful order?

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I believe that a lawful order by LEO would be an order in keeping with the limit of their duties, in other words, If it isn't legal for them to do, then it is not lawful.]

    I'm not sure if this is correct, but that is what I believe it is.

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    Personally I don't think them saying "keep your firearm in the car" is a lawful order because it takes away from me my right to keep and bear arms. If someone tells me that then I'll be filing a huge complaint.

    And with this toy gun ban it is like trying to ban alcohol in the United States back in the early 1900s. You are telling stores that they can no longer sell toy guns or anything of that nature. Also you are going to be having a lot of angry people that can't even carry their paintball gun to the car for an outing without getting the cops called on them.

    To finish I don't think it is "police education" needed but rather "citizen education." Who are the ones calling the in "MWAG"?

    911: "911, what's your emergency?"

    Officer: "I have a man with a gun here. Send backup."

    911: "Right away, officer."

    No, it is the citizens (the little old grandparents and soccer moms) that are calling it in. I'm not sure how many guys actually do because I know the different between my Springfield XD and the air soft knock off 1911.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
    Lone Eagle Observer (http://www.charlesahall.us)
    Facebook Page || http://twitter.com/CharlesAHall

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Yeah, the citizens are calling it in, the 911 operators are actually giving it credence, and the officers are citing law abiding people with ridiculous charges.

    The education can't focus on one specific group, it needs to focus on everyone.

    If the citizens are educated, the LEOs will still stop OCers, and the occasional 911 call will still get sent through.

    If the 911 operators are educated, LEOs will still stop OCers, and they will still get MWAG calls that will waste the operators time.

    If the LEO's are educated, well that one will actually help to fix things IMO

    So let's educate the LEOs first and everyone else later, or all at the same time, it all works anyway.

    Wow, I mean just educate who you can, but educate everyone possible.

    And never skip a chance to educate LEO's

    Hehe sorry guys ADD

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    i really need a "WHAT IM DOING IS LEGAL, AND YOU CAN DO IT TOO" shirt or somethin, "OPEN CARRY YOUR FIREARMS! NO PERMITS ARE REQUIRED"

    "OPENCARRY.ORG, EDUCATE YOURSELF"

    mike, make that last one

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    That would be an awesome shirt.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    Yeah, the citizens are calling it in, the 911 operators are actually giving it credence, and the officers are citing law abiding people with ridiculous charges.

    The education can't focus on one specific group, it needs to focus on everyone.

    If the citizens are educated, the LEOs will still stop OCers, and the occasional 911 call will still get sent through.

    If the 911 operators are educated, LEOs will still stop OCers, and they will still get MWAG calls that will waste the operators time.

    If the LEO's are educated, well that one will actually help to fix things IMO

    So let's educate the LEOs first and everyone else later, or all at the same time, it all works anyway.

    Wow, I mean just educate who you can, but educate everyone possible.

    And never skip a chance to educate LEO's

    Hehe sorry guys ADD
    I would also vote that 911 operators are often overlooked, but very important to get educated. Not that I want them to waste their time, because selfishly I may need them one day and don't want them tied up educating clueless sheeple..... But, cops are required to respond when dispatched by 911 operators.

    So if a caller calls in "A guy is selling roses to motorists stopped at the offramp light." and 911 operators report a "pedestrian in danger", police must respond. Of course the police will find nothing wrong and move on, but what an incredible waste of time and resources! 911 operators will, hopefully, try to determine other factors, such as whether he is impeding traffic, standling in the road between two lanes, drunk and stumbling, etc before reporting he's in danger.

    In the same way, if a caller calls in MWAG, and without further questions (such as "Is he pointing it at anyone/anything?", "Is he threatening anyone?", "Is he intoxicated?", "Did you see him on America's Most Wanted?") reports any type of incident, ("Possible jaywalking imminent.") police must unfortunately respond.

    If the police are educated, they'll know not to roll code 3, and know not to draw on the guy (TJ's story scares the hell out of me.).

    Obviously, the most important group, the American public, is the most difficult to educate. Every day we are bombarded with liberal news media trying to brainwash us into thinking our rights will be our downfall, and those who would assert their rights are the real danger to this country. But then we try to escape reality for an hour at a time and watch an entertaining sitcom or drama (I love Law & Order, despite what I'm about to say), and we see that nearly every criminal is caught and punished (I feel so safe!), and that not only are guns bad, but the overreaction of police at the sight of a gun is not only warranted, but LEGAL (gun laws are reasonable, effective, and we need more - after we eliminate guns, I'll be able to die peacefully knowing my kids have inherited a crime-free world here in the United States of Utopia.)

    As in the Matrix movie, red pill or blue pill? Do you want to go through life free, but painfully aware of the challenges you could encounter at any moment, or do you want to go through life unaware but feeling happy? I don't necessarily fault those who would choose the latter, happiness is relative, and plenty of liberals die every day blissfully unaware of the dangers of their reckless disregard for freedom. A few years, I worked with a guy (an expert at laser printer repair, by the way) who's favorite feature on his new car was the tilt steering wheel. And his favorite family vacation spot was a motel 20 minutes away from his home because it had a pool with a cool design. He was the happiest guy I ever met. Was he wrong?

    To me, YES, he was wrong, but how easy will it be to convince him?

    Man, late at night I get off on some weird tangents. Please forgive me if I'm going crazy. I promise to disarm at the first sign of voices in my head... :-)

    Tim

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Well said.

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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    i really need a "WHAT IM DOING IS LEGAL, AND YOU CAN DO IT TOO" shirt or somethin, "OPEN CARRY YOUR FIREARMS! NO PERMITS ARE REQUIRED"

    "OPENCARRY.ORG, EDUCATE YOURSELF"

    mike, make that last one
    HOLY CRAP, make these NOW!!! :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

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