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Thread: Just what Spokane needs....

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    Detective injured during gun training
    May 31, 2008

    A Spokane County sheriff's detective shot himself in the leg while training with a new gun Friday at Medical Lake.
    The Sheriff's Office is switching from Smith and Wesson guns to Glock .45-caliber semiautomatics, which require different holsters. Personnel were training at a gravel pit, said sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Dave Reagan.
    During a "rock and lock" exercise in which they draw their pistols, point at a target and re-holster without taking their eyes off the target, the detective missed his holster and fired a single bullet into his upper right leg about 2:30 p.m., Reagan said.

    "He expressed in no uncertain terms that this was a painful injury," he said.
    Reagan declined to identity the detective but said he's a 20-year veteran.
    He was taken by ambulance to a Spokane hospital, where he was expected to undergo surgery to remove the bullet.
    "It was just one of those accidental things," Reagan said. "I'm sure he's very embarrassed."
    Meghann M. Cun

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    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    surfj9009 wrote:
    During a "rock and lock" exercise in which they draw their pistols, point at a target and re-holster without taking their eyes off the target, ...
    One of the best things Ilearned at FAS Defensive Handgun.



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    surfj9009 wrote:
    He expressed in no uncertain terms that this was a painful injury
    See, if they'd been shooting 9mms, he wouldn't even have noticed it.

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    I guess the keep the finger off the trigger drill needed to be done first. This is one think that seriously scares me about OC: Cops coming at me with guns drawn. Police are trained to keep their fingers off the trigger until ready to shoot right? Any LEOs is this actually taught and emphasized?

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    asforme wrote:
    I guess the keep the finger off the trigger drill needed to be done first. This is one think that seriously scares me about OC: Cops coming at me with guns drawn. Police are trained to keep their fingers off the trigger until ready to shoot right? Any LEOs is this actually taught and emphasized?
    You beat me to it. Finger on trigger while holstering equals negligent (and stupid)discharge.

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    Nah, the evil gun "just went off." Those little suckers have a mind of their own! :P

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    Well, I don't know about it being a gravel pit, but it was definately a pit. They were using the Medical Lake police range, which is a fairly small hole in the ground.

    This last weekend the Army was out there blasting away. I wonder if I can use it, I could walk there from where I live.



    bob

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    BobR wrote:
    Well, I don't know about it being a gravel pit, but it was definately a pit. They were using the Medical Lake police range, which is a fairly small hole in the ground. This last weekend the Army was out there blasting away. I wonder if I can use it, I could walk there from where I live. bob
    It can't hurt to check and see. I'll be over there mid July for a weekend visit if anyone wants to get together. (edit) after I read my entry I might add it was for food & drink not just shooting.

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    I wouldn't mind checking it out also...

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    Another place for the public to shoot in this area would be real nice.

    As to the detective, another article said he was cracking jokes as he went to the hospital... Hopefully about himself. Will help him get used to the ribbing he is going to get when he is back on duty.

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    surfj9009 wrote:
    Detective injured during gun training
    May 31, 2008

    A Spokane County sheriff's detective shot himself in the leg while training with a new gun Friday at Medical Lake.
    The Sheriff's Office is switching from Smith and Wesson guns to Glock .45-caliber semiautomatics, which require different holsters. Personnel were training at a gravel pit, said sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Dave Reagan.
    During a "rock and lock" exercise in which they draw their pistols, point at a target and re-holster without taking their eyes off the target, the detective missed his holster and fired a single bullet into his upper right leg about 2:30 p.m., Reagan said.

    "He expressed in no uncertain terms that this was a painful injury," he said.
    Reagan declined to identity the detective but said he's a 20-year veteran.
    He was taken by ambulance to a Spokane hospital, where he was expected to undergo surgery to remove the bullet.
    "It was just one of those accidental things," Reagan said. "I'm sure he's very embarrassed."
    Meghann M. Cun
    what a fuckin moron.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    BobCav wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    I guess the keep the finger off the trigger drill needed to be done first. This is one think that seriously scares me about OC: Cops coming at me with guns drawn. Police are trained to keep their fingers off the trigger until ready to shoot right? Any LEOs is this actually taught and emphasized?
    You beat me to it. Finger on trigger while holstering equals negligent (and stupid)discharge.
    +1.

    It goes for both LEO and any other gun-handler: KEEP THE BOOGER HOOKER OFF THE BANG BUTTON!... until ready to fire.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Last year sheriff Ozzie wanted to build a private range for the sheriff's using public funding. I wrote a letter to the editor thanking the sheriff for wanting to open up a public range, using public funding, for the public to use. I said that there could be compititions between the sheriff's and the public.
    Now, I don't know if my letter sparked input to the sheriff but they are still shooting in the gravel pit, and shooting them selves in the "foot" so to speak.

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    I would not say it was his fault, but I blame the Glock. I mean it has no external safety, if that trigger is caught on something BOOM!!! That is the exact reason why I will NEVER own a glock. Yeah they may be reliable, durable, and there are lots of accessories for them, but they are accident prone guns. Just look at what happened in Seattle at the festival. I don’t blame the operator I blame the equipment.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Alwayspacking wrote:
    I would not say it was his fault, but I blame the Glock. I mean it has no external safety, if that trigger is caught on something BOOM!!! That is the exact reason why I will NEVER own a glock. Yeah they may be reliable, durable, and there are lots of accessories for them, but they are accident prone guns. Just look at what happened in Seattle at the festival. I don’t blame the operator I blame the equipment.
    Absolutely WRONG.

    I have taken my Glock 27 (unloaded) and wranked on the side of the cocked trigger to try and get it to move. No joy. Once you press the trigger safety back, then you can pull the trigger. Plus, it's about a 5 lb trigger pull; you have to intentionally pull that trigger.

    You have to get something into the trigger guard and push both the trigger safety and the trigger back. I'm sorry, but if you can't handle not doing that, there's no amount of safeties good enough for you.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Alwayspacking wrote:
    I would not say it was his fault, but I blame the Glock. I mean it has no external safety, if that trigger is caught on something BOOM!!! That is the exact reason why I will NEVER own a glock. Yeah they may be reliable, durable, and there are lots of accessories for them, but they are accident prone guns. Just look at what happened in Seattle at the festival. I don’t blame the operator I blame the equipment.
    A glock takes something (almost always a finger) in the trigger guard to pull the trigger with 5lbs of force. I even lightened my trigger pull to 3.5lbs and I still have trouble manufacturing an AD. I can spin the gun wild wild west style and the trigger won't pull. But none of that matters if proper gun handling is used and the FINGER IS KEPT OFF THE TRIGGER.

    By the way, every holster I have ever known that had any possibility of getting caught in the trigger guard (except for the TFA pilots holster) has been recalled immediatly upon discovery. Blackhawk just recalled the Glock 20/21 holster because of a single ND on an M&P, which the holster isn't even made for.

    There is no one to blame but the officer who had his finger on the trigger. Thankfully he only shot himself. With the frequency of NDs from police officers the fact that OCing could get officers to pull their guns on me, and many officers seem to have their fingers on the trigger whenever their gun is in their hand scares the crap out of me.

    No mechanical safety of any kind will prevent stupidity. I hate to think how many NDs we would be seeing if cops carried 1911s. If there fingers are on the triggers do you think they would still have a manual safety engaged? Now there only a hair trigger away from shooting you.

    There are no accident prone guns, only accident prone people.

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    Alwayspacking wrote:
    I would not say it was his fault, but I blame the Glock. I mean it has no external safety, if that trigger is caught on something BOOM!!! That is the exact reason why I will NEVER own a glock. Yeah they may be reliable, durable, and there are lots of accessories for them, but they are accident prone guns. Just look at what happened in Seattle at the festival. I don’t blame the operator I blame the equipment.
    *********....

    Your finger is the safety.

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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    Alwayspacking wrote:
    I would not say it was his fault, but I blame the Glock. I mean it has no external safety, if that trigger is caught on something BOOM!!! That is the exact reason why I will NEVER own a glock. Yeah they may be reliable, durable, and there are lots of accessories for them, but they are accident prone guns. Just look at what happened in Seattle at the festival. I don’t blame the operator I blame the equipment.
    *********....

    Your finger is the safety.
    There's no need for name-calling, BS. You can make your point without resorting to insults.

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    Just_a_car and asforme thanks for the education on the Glocks. And about the 1911, I totally understand you, You are so correct about being a hair from being shot by a 1911. it good the LOE are not issued them, if they did have them on the streets things could get really ugly for civilians.. Yeah I know the best safety on a gun is the hands holding it, and I am a safety nut. The only gun I ever had go off on me was a malfunction pistol. I am really safe with pistols. There is no reason to die over a senseless accident.

    You have heard the saying, there are those that love Glocks, and those that hate Glocks, maybe I fall in the middle of that saying, I don’t hate Glocks I just don’t like them. And when I read of someone have a ND with the Glock I tend blame the Glock because I don’t like them. Please don’t find fault with me over my opinion, I don’t hate you, or call you names for not liking tomatoes, or my mom's apple pie. That's your opinion, and you are entitled to that. Differences in opinion are what makes this world so colorful.

    OC Glock 19 thanks for trying to keep order in Bravo_Sierra. With that being said, everything in me wants to fire back at Bravo for his name-calling of me for simply station my thoughts on the article. But I am not going to retaliate this time, maybe next time. For now I'll just stay in my seat, and give you the evil eye from across the room. But know I do not like being disrespected at all. I will never disrespect anyone on this forum, so please do not disrespect me.

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:
    BobCav wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    I guess the keep the finger off the trigger drill needed to be done first. This is one think that seriously scares me about OC: Cops coming at me with guns drawn. Police are trained to keep their fingers off the trigger until ready to shoot right? Any LEOs is this actually taught and emphasized?
    You beat me to it. Finger on trigger while holstering equals negligent (and stupid)discharge.
    +1.

    It goes for both LEO and any other gun-handler: KEEP THE BOOGER HOOKER OFF THE BANG BUTTON!... until ready to fire.
    +1

    Not to mention, if you're going to be performing a drill like that, make sure you DON'T HAVE A LIVE ROUND CHAMBERED!


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    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
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    asforme wrote:
    No mechanical safety of any kind will prevent stupidity. I hate to think how many NDs we would be seeing if cops carried 1911s. If there fingers are on the triggers do you think they would still have a manual safety engaged? Now there only a hair trigger away from shooting you.

    There are no accident prone guns, only accident prone people.
    News flash........I and Many Officers carry 1911's on and off duty. I have never had an AD, and have seen only one in 15 years from another Officer (it was a glock). Here's another tip; if my finger is on the trigger, the manual safety is OFF, as I am very concerned that I may need to pull the trigger any moment.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    Johnny Law wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    No mechanical safety of any kind will prevent stupidity. I hate to think how many NDs we would be seeing if cops carried 1911s. If there fingers are on the triggers do you think they would still have a manual safety engaged? Now there only a hair trigger away from shooting you.

    There are no accident prone guns, only accident prone people.
    News flash........I and Many Officers carry 1911's on and off duty. I have never had an AD, and have seen only one in 15 years from another Officer (it was a glock). Here's another tip; if my finger is on the trigger, the manual safety is OFF, as I am very concerned that I may need to pull the trigger any moment.

    Johnny Law thanks for your service, you are brave man, I could not do your job. I use to shake LE hands every time I came in contact with one because I know how dangerous their job is. But after being racial profiled and stereotyped in NC over the years I stopped shaking their hands. Nothing against LE, but it just sucks that I got searched every time I was stopped by a LEO, and having guns out of holster when some would walk to my car. So I stop going out of my way to thank them for their service. But I still give them my up most respect.

    In regards to LEO and 1911's there is a short trigger pull on that pistol, that’s one of the reasons why I love it so much. But I was reading about how when a person holding a gun could accidentally pull the trigger when they are startled or stumbles. It is a natural reaction of the hand, so any pistol really being pointed at someone is a dangerous situation.

    I have had a LEO point his gun a me before, he was moving on foot at the time thankfully he did not shoot me. No matter what gun it is, it has the possibility of a AD. And there are lots of competent LEO out there and there are some that are not, same goes with the civilian sector. It's just that LEO are more likely to draw their weapon than a civilian, because LEO run to the danger, and us civilian are to run away from It so there is a more likelihood of a AD.

    I just wanted to make that clear, I don’t want to offend you from my statement.

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    Johnny Law wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    No mechanical safety of any kind will prevent stupidity. I hate to think how many NDs we would be seeing if cops carried 1911s. If there fingers are on the triggers do you think they would still have a manual safety engaged? Now there only a hair trigger away from shooting you.

    There are no accident prone guns, only accident prone people.
    News flash........I and Many Officers carry 1911's on and off duty. I have never had an AD, and have seen only one in 15 years from another Officer (it was a glock). Here's another tip; if my finger is on the trigger, the manual safety is OFF, as I am very concerned that I may need to pull the trigger any moment.
    Sorry, I meant no personal insult to you. Do you carry a 1911 out of personal choice or is it the standard duty weapon where you are?

    One of my greatest fears of OCing is that some cop because they don't know the law will rush me with their gun drawn, then because they have their finger on the trigger will accidentally shoot me. There have been stories posted here of people being confronted at gun point with fingers on the triggers. That fear would be even compounded if their finger was resting on the light trigger of a 1911. However I have more confidence that an officer who voluntarily carries a 1911 is more versed in proper gun handeling than the officer who just takes and uses whatever they are issued.

    My point in making that comment is that manual safety's will not help an officer who does not know when to keep their finger off the trigger. I'm sure this does not apply to you and probably does not apply to any officer who carries a 1911 out of personal choice.

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    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
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    asforme wrote:
    Sorry, I meant no personal insult to you. Do you carry a 1911 out of personal choice or is it the standard duty weapon where you are?

    One of my greatest fears of OCing is that some cop because they don't know the law will rush me with their gun drawn, then because they have their finger on the trigger will accidentally shoot me. There have been stories posted here of people being confronted at gun point with fingers on the triggers. That fear would be even compounded if their finger was resting on the light trigger of a 1911. However I have more confidence that an officer who voluntarily carries a 1911 is more versed in proper gun handeling than the officer who just takes and uses whatever they are issued.

    My point in making that comment is that manual safety's will not help an officer who does not know when to keep their finger off the trigger. I'm sure this does not apply to you and probably does not apply to any officer who carries a 1911 out of personal choice.
    Glock is the standard issue, but I have the luxury of carryingANY weapon that is of high quality. I even have a choice of many calibers. The only stipulation is that you must purchase the weapon yourself.

    I can certainly understand your concern, but you must remember that Officers point their guns at literally hundreds of people, and become very confident doing so. This is not the case in the civilian sector, where ifone had to point a gun at a person, most would be very nervous, as it is not a common act for them.

    One of my biggest concerns is when I am confronting an armed person (good, bad, or ugly). I will never have them remove their gun, as I have seen several people grab the grip, put their finger on the trigger, and even point it at the Officer, as they are trying to hand it to them. This is how people get shot, as the Officer has to assume the worst at that point.

    Nobody likes having guns pointed at them, but it is how an Officer stays safe, and maintains the upper hand during an encounter that they are not comfortable with. Luckily, it is not always necessary, and this is where cooperation and a good attitude will help place the Officer more at ease.

    Btw Alwayspacking.
    I really appreciate your positive comments, as the bulk of what any Officer gets is critcism. I am sorry that you have been racially profiled in the past, as I do not tolerate that in any form. Anyone who respects the Police is a valuable asset, as you never know who will be needing who's help someday.

    I would be proud to shake your hand.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    Thank you.

    And stay safe on the streets.

    One more off topic comment sorry… Before I would have loved to go SWAT, because I know I will be going into a dangerous situation and I would be mentally prepared for it and tactfully ready. But in approaching a car or someone on the streets, you never know what the outcome would be. Pulse I am not the most toughest guy out there, and a BG might just whip my a** so stay safe out there.

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