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Thread: Carrying an empty holster

  1. #1
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    It was suggested to start a new thread for this.....

    Yeah, I know its not the best solution...but its a start.

    Pointman carried his SERPA holster to the infamous Menards. Congrats.

    I have been carrying my empty SERPA holster all over Waukesha since February, and I do mean all over the city and surrounding area. It is good for me to always remind myself that it is there, and practice carrying while in "yellow" mode awareness. Also it forces you to adopt a different style of body motion naturally.

    Overall, few people seem to notice. Those that do often take a double-take, but even with a white shirt on and the grey/black holster most people don't notice. In fact, the more people around, the less they seem to notice, especially when distracted while looking at cereal boxes in the store.

    This is a thread to post your stories or comments about the subject.

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    Also, if you would rather OC your firearm...by all means...

    I OC my handgun around a few places (tonite around my subdivision), but I haven't been brave enough to take it to Picknsave yet for an hour long trip with my wife. So the next best thing is carrying an empty holster.

    Carrying an empty holster raises awareness if nothing else. And remember that raising awareness is one of our primary goals, given the resolutions, petitions. In general, we need to raise awareness both to law enforcement and the public. Also, it was mentioned that campus groups use this method as a protest for them being disarmed by beurocrats (sp?) on campus.

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    Going to give that a try.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Campus groups use this as a form of protest, which I support, but I do not advise going on your daily life with an empty holster. To me an empty holster on a person means there is very likely a gun in the vehicle they just exited. A criminal who would like to have that gun may get the same impression. Even if your gun isn't in your car, it is inviting a break in IMO.

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    My holster is so low profile it looks like what the average carpenter would have on thier belt. I am a jeans and T-shirt guy so it should fit the motif.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    I prefer to carry a full holster. Am I missing something?

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    Yes, in wisconsin you get arrested by overzealous leos even though it is legal to open carry. Ask Parabellum.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Ah, suddenly it all makes sense. Damn I'm glad I moved to Colorado. Now if we could just convince Denver that it should be following state law I'd never leave the state.

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    I would like to begin to open carry around Milwaukee also, but I think I'm going to break myself in by just carrying my holster. Empty.

    Which got me thinking. I'd much rather wear a holster that made it difficult to tell if there was a weapon in it or not.

    I would rather people not know if my holster was full or empty. BUT is a holster that provides full coverage of the weapon considered "concealment"?

    FWIW i haven't even really done much looking for a holster that would provide full coverage, they probably are big and cumbersome to wear on a belt, but the question still lingers in my head if an exposed holster that covers the gun entirely is considered concealment.

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    I would like to begin to open carry around Milwaukee also, but I think I'm going to break myself in by just carrying my holster. Empty.

    Which got me thinking. I'd much rather wear a holster that made it difficult to tell if there was a weapon in it or not.

    I would rather people not know if my holster was full or empty. BUT is a holster that provides full coverage of the weapon considered "concealment"?

    FWIW i haven't even really done much looking for a holster that would provide full coverage, they probably are big and cumbersome to wear on a belt, but the question still lingers in my head if an exposed holster that covers the gun entirely is considered concealment.
    I'll give the same advice I've read here many times. If you decide to do this, have a few friends around (15-20 yards away) armed (no pun intended) with video camera. That way, you will have the picture worth the thousands words so to speak.

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    Pretty much, the general language states that it has to be "in plain view".

    Wear an OWB holster and tuck in your shirt and you should be fine for any situation.

    We can play the guessing game with what an LEO might consider concealed, and there would be no way to prove in court since his testimony carries a great deal of weight. What I am saying is that if he thinks it is "sloppily" concealed on the spot, then he will probably remember it as being concealed and nothing else.

    Also, I don't think the language of the statues do not lend itself to being charged for partial concealment (either it's concealed or not). In some states the statutes ban carry of a "fully or partially concealed any part of a firearm"...this is very clear...in fact it requires that open carries have a CCW since a holster covers part of the firearm. But anyways, we need to be mindful.

    But the long and the short of it, if you want to play it safe, wear an OWB holster. This type of holster is not heavily intended for CC anyways, and with a tucked in shirt or something there is no way for it to cover the gun. I wear an OWB at 2:30....stops people from seeing it from behind, I can travel on the right side of an aisle and most people won't even see it.

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    I carried my empty holster on errands to four places tonite. We were at Farm and Fleet (last stop) and my wife finally noticed that I was wearing it. Seriously, few people will notice.

    I have found that more people notice when I actually OC, but still not as many as you might think, especially in a store where people are distracted with looking at things.

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    A reference was made to carrying an empty holster in another thread so I figured I'd resurrect this old beast.

    I am still carrying my SERPA around Waukesha. Never any trouble yet.

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    I sort of like the idea of carrying an empty holster where it is completely visible.

    When some liberal walks up and says, "Why is your holster empty?" I could hand him or her a sheet of paper and calmly walk away:

    You asked me why my holster is empty. It seems ridiculous, doesn't it? What good is an empty holster in a situation where a person might need to defend himself, his family or another citizen against a violent, deadly attack that occurs without warning? Unless you have spent the past 30 years in a coma, you must certainly know this sort of attack occurs all around the country. No place is immune to such violence. Virginia Tech was a recent incident, but Columbine also comes to mind, and lets not forget the day a deranged man walked into a McDonalds in San Ysidro California with several guns and the intent to kill as many people as possible.

    Upon noticing my empty holster, did you perceive me as a threat to your personal safety? Was my appearance such that you felt uncomfortable being in the same area with me? I will assume you did not, since you approached me about my empty holster. You must have correctly concluded that I am a law-abiding citizen who happens to support the 2nd Amendment and the RIGHT to Keep and Bear Arms!

    Now that you know I am no threat to your safety, would it bother you if I were carrying a loaded firearm in this holster? Do you believe that simply by having a loaded weapon in my possession, my demeanor would change, or my respect for human life would diminish? Do you believe that a gun has a mind of its own, and can cause a person to abandon all reason and logic?

    How would you feel about my having a weapon in this holster if God forbid, someone burst through the door with a gun drawn and began to kill everyone in this place today? Would you fear MY weapon, or thank God that an armed law-abiding citizen was there with you, a citizen who can not only defend his own life, but quite possibly take down the assailant before he wreaks havoc on the people in this building, a citizen who could defend YOUR life as well. Unfortunately for both of us, current laws do not permit us to carry a loaded firearm, even though it is our RIGHT under the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, if something did occur here today, I would be powerless to aid in your survival, or even my own.

    Criminals do not obey gun laws. More gun laws, stricter gun control measures, gun registration, gun bans, handgun confiscation and all of the "feel good" restrictions that have been imposed on YOU and ME, and which WE OBEY, are completely IGNORED by criminals. Since criminals are ignoring the twenty thousand gun laws on the books now, what would make an intelligent person believe that more gun laws will be obeyed by criminals?

    You and I are law-abiding citizens. As such, we have met here today as UNARMED and DEFENSELESS VICTIMS of any person or persons who might enter this building with criminal intent and the desire to kill defenseless civilians.
    In the same way that I maintain an auto insurance policy that I hope I will never need to use, and have installed smoke detectors in my home that I hope I will never hear, I for one, would like to have the ability to carry a loaded firearm for self-defense, while hoping that I will never be called upon to use it in self-defense.

    The police have publicly stated, and the courts have affirmed that law enforcement is NOT required to protect any individual person. Criminals do not announce their intentions! Knowing this, doesn't it seem ridiculous that the law forbids us to carry a loaded weapon for self-defense?

    I wish you a long and healthy life. The good news is that the odds are in your favor that you will never find yourself in a situation where you are wishing you had a loaded weapon for self-defense. The bad news is that if you DO find yourself in a situation where some madman is walking among the public, shooting people and looking for more people to kill, it will be too late to write a letter to your local sheriff and your county and state legislators demanding your Right to Keep and Bear Arms. In fact, I'm guessing you'll barely have enough time to say a short prayer.

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    gravedigger is in California where it is illegal to carry a loaded firearm unless you have a permit, or are in unincorporated territory where its not illegal. It is not illegal inWisconsin to carry a loaded firearm.

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    Bravo Gravedigger!!! I believe if we could make a few modifications to his post(letter) to make it work here in Wisconsin I would definetly print a bunch off and use them!

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    I have nothing particularly against carrying an empty holster as some sort of symbolic gesture, but I'd much rather encourage everyone to carry a FULL holster. Well, not everyone, but people who know what they're doing.

    If you want to make a statement and you're somewhere where it is legal (which is most places) to have a gun-- why not have a gun? Everyone these days walks around with Batman's belt full of gadgets, An empty holster may not draw much attention in a society that is in condition white most of the time. If your goal is to make a statement, make it! An empty holster is making the statement "I could be carrying a gun, but I'm afraid to do it." It might also make the statement "the gun's in the car" to the crooks. Finally, in the unlikely event that something happens that makes you wish you had your gun, you don't want to stand there looking to the bad guys like the guy who ought to or might have a gun.

    One does not carry a gun in public because one's hobby is target shooting. Know what you are doing.

    Get a well-made secure holster and a good belt. Get a good flashlight. Practice using them often. Get training in gun retention, practice it. Be honest with yourself about your abilities. Do not delude yourself into thinking that you are a combat shooter because you can shoot one-inch groups on a 25-yard target range at your leisure. Outside of the military, most gunfights occur at distances under 20 feet, most much closer than that. Shoot on the move, shoot moving targets, shoot in the rain, cold, and dark. Shoot from the ground, from behind cover, one-handed, weak handed. Run or do calisthenics until you're breathing hard, then shoot. Practice reloads, and even more importantly malfunction drills.

    Be courteous. Be alert.
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    Shotgun wrote:
    I have nothing particularly against carrying an empty holster as some sort of symbolic gesture, but I'd much rather encourage everyone to carry a FULL holster. Well, not everyone, but people who know what they're doing.

    If you want to make a statement and you're somewhere where it is legal (which is most places) to have a gun-- why not have a gun? Everyone these days walks around with Batman's belt full of gadgets, An empty holster may not draw much attention in a society that is in condition white most of the time. If your goal is to make a statement, make it! An empty holster is making the statement "I could be carrying a gun, but I'm afraid to do it." It might also make the statement "the gun's in the car" to the crooks. Finally, in the unlikely event that something happens that makes you wish you had your gun, you don't want to stand there looking to the bad guys like the guy who ought to or might have a gun.

    One does not carry a gun in public because one's hobby is target shooting. Know what you are doing.

    Get a well-made secure holster and a good belt. Get a good flashlight. Practice using them often. Get training in gun retention, practice it. Be honest with yourself about your abilities. Do not delude yourself into thinking that you are a combat shooter because you can shoot one-inch groups on a 25-yard target range at your leisure. Outside of the military, most gunfights occur at distances under 20 feet, most much closer than that. Shoot on the move, shoot moving targets, shoot in the rain, cold, and dark. Shoot from the ground, from behind cover, one-handed, weak handed. Run or do calisthenics until you're breathing hard, then shoot. Practice reloads, and even more importantly malfunction drills.

    Be courteous. Be alert.
    Agreed. Theempty holster leaves out one importantlifesaver...your firearm. If someone isn't ready to carry in public regularly yet, at least opencarry around their own property. Then move on to carrying around your neighborhood, barring a school zone restriction.

    The sheep will only see us as non-threatening later on, ONLY if we carry a full holster over long periods of time.


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    I don't get it. :?

    Has anybody ever been convicted of carrying a full holster, openly?

    Somebody on another thread recently pointed me to people who convicted themselves of disorderly conduct, by pleading guilty, but has anybody ever been convicted by pleading NOT guilty and going to trial?

    Is there a single Wisconsin court case stating that carrying a pistol in a holster openlyis disorderly conduct, all by itself, or any other crime for that matter?

    People get arrested down here in Georgia by overzealous law enforcement, too, for carrying openly, but it is legal (with a license, blech!)and we still do it, and we take legal action against the officers who misbehave.

    What is it about people in Wisconsin that makes you so timid?

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    Here's an idea for those of you who want to DO something:

    Contact your county board supervisors and re-submit the resolution.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=17914&forum_id=57

    Press them to act on it. If they refuse, catch them after a meeting, with video camera running, and ask them why you/me/we have no rights. Then post their answers on You-Tube.

    The cost is almost non-existent and because you were asking a question about rights, and did so without a firearm, if they try to quash you that would be a violation of your first (1st) amendment rights.

    Will you start by taking this first unarmed stand?

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    smithman wrote:
    It was suggested to start a new thread for this.....

    Yeah, I know its not the best solution...but its a start.

    Pointman carried his SERPA holster to the infamous Menards. Congrats.

    I have been carrying my empty SERPA holster all over Waukesha since February, and I do mean all over the city and surrounding area.

    What's the point in this?

    Is it: "I'd like to OC but I'm afraid of my own government so I'm not willing to make a stand for my constitutional rights"?

    Is it: "I feel you have taken away my RKBA but am too scared to actually do something significant about it"?

    Is it: "You guys win. I am completely cowed and all I will carry from now on is this piece of leather/nylon."

    I don't get it.







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