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Thread: OK, how does one OC without a CFP yet?

  1. #1
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    Let's pose this hypothetical...

    "Oh hey, a slurpee sounds totally radical righ now, let's go to 7-Eleven and get a big gulp!"

    "Hold on, I'll drive. First I need to secure my weapon in the trunk (lock box, secure case, etc...), since I do not have my CFP."

    These two yahoos go to the 7-11 and in order to be legal has his gun lawfully placed in his vehicle. He thengoes to his trunk pulls out his gun, holsters it, then they both proceed to enter the store.

    Anyone see the problem with this scenario? OMG...911 would get a MWAG call for sure.

    What do those of you that prefer to OC do when you must drive to your destination? I got all holstered up, thinking I would have my first OC experience going to the gas station to fill up and get a pop for the boys. I do not have my CFP and sitting in my idling car realized I almost broke the law. I thought about it and decided that the gas station I was going to (deep in WVC, close to Magna) probably wouldn't be the best place to pull a gun out of my trunk! My CFP is about 6 weeks away, but c'mon how can I legally OC in public if I can't get there with it holstered to my side???

    This sucks.............If I can legally OC on a public street with a Utah unloaded weapon, I should be able to drive the same way! That's just my opinion!!!

  2. #2
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    SlimsBFG wrote:
    Let's pose this hypothetical...

    "Oh hey, a slurpee sounds totally radical righ now, let's go to 7-Eleven and get a big gulp!"

    "Hold on, I'll drive. First I need to secure my weapon in the trunk (lock box, secure case, etc...), since I do not have my CFP."

    These two yahoos go to the 7-11 and in order to be legal has his gun lawfully placed in his vehicle. He thengoes to his trunk pulls out his gun, holsters it, then they both proceed to enter the store.

    Anyone see the problem with this scenario? OMG...911 would get a MWAG call for sure.

    What do those of you that prefer to OC do when you must drive to your destination? I got all holstered up, thinking I would have my first OC experience going to the gas station to fill up and get a pop for the boys. I do not have my CFP and sitting in my idling car realized I almost broke the law. I thought about it and decided that the gas station I was going to (deep in WVC, close to Magna) probably wouldn't be the best place to pull a gun out of my trunk! My CFP is about 6 weeks away, but c'mon how can I legally OC in public if I can't get there with it holstered to my side???

    This sucks.............If I can legally OC on a public street with a Utah unloaded weapon, I should be able to drive the same way! That's just my opinion!!!
    Welcome. You are right about your frustration "If I can legally OC on a public street with a Utah unloaded weapon, I should be able to drive the same way!" and we feel the same about this issue.

    Clark Aposhian and MANY others are trying to get this "common sense" thinking thru with the Utah State Legislature. And it doesn't seem to quite make each year so far.

    I would suggest to get a paddle holster for your gun and carry it "Utah Loaded". As you are about to enter the car you can do 1 out of 2 things.

    1) Take the whole "package" ( Holster + Gun together) of at the same time and put it on the dash.

    2) Do the same but rather as you sit down in the car put it in a case of some sort and put it behind your seat so that it will be easier to travel thru "school zones" due the FEDERAL Laws.

    By having the Gun in the Paddle holster you cannot be "mistaken" to be "waiving" the gun around due to the fact that is was in a holster.

    If you have any specific questions PLEASE ask. That's how we ALL learn.

    TJ

  3. #3
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    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?

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    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    Yes, it is considered legal by BCI's (Bureau of Criminal Identification) interpretation.

    There is 1 person that you can for sure ask these questions and that is Clark Aposhian, the Chairman of the Review Board at BCI. And also Chairman for Utah Shooting Council.

    His cell # is 801-560-4836

    Oh. I almost forgot. As OCDO carriers we kinda have our "designated" Attorney Mitch Vilos. He is also the Author to the book "Utah Gun Laws". Get it it's a VERY good book. It's almost mandatory to get that before you "strap" on so to speak.

    Mitch's # is 801-560-7117





    TJ

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    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    I have a Serpa. Good Holster.

    Just try to get something "Anti-slip" on your dash. That will help a TON.

    What gun do you carry?



    TJ

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    Yeah TJ...I've been following your posts diligently! You live out in WV like me!

    I haven't purchased the book yet I (this paycheck I will), and wouldn't feel comfortable bothering Mitch with such a question I already know the answer to.

    I'm fairly clear with all the OC laws, other than the holstered gunon the dash is considered OK part. Thanks for the clarification, and I trust your advice as I feel you're a competent/law-abiding OC'er!!! :celebrate

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    I have a Serpa. Good Holster.

    Just try to get something "Anti-slip" on your dash. That will help a TON.

    What gun do you carry?



    TJ


    A SA-XD .45 compact...It sure is purdy and fun to shoot! :-P

  8. #8
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    SlimsBFG wrote:
    Yeah TJ...I've been following your posts diligently! You live out in WV like me!

    I haven't purchased the book yet I (this paycheck I will), and wouldn't feel comfortable bothering Mitch with such a question I already know the answer to.

    I'm fairly clear with all the OC laws, other than the holstered gunon the dash is considered OK part. Thanks for the clarification, and I trust your advice as I feel you're a competent/law-abiding OC'er!!! :celebrate

    ALWAYS read up on the Laws so that YOU are familiar with them according to YOUR understanding as well.

    Talk to Clark about the "Dash Carry". This way YOU will get it from the "horse's mouth" so to speak.

    Clark is VERY helpful. ESPECIALLY with "new" carriers.

    And Thanks BTW. WVC PD is on my case alright.

    TJ


  9. #9
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    Google Title 76 of Utah Weapons Laws. 76-10-501 is the definitions.

    Read up on the Federal Code U.S Code 18

    TJ

  10. #10
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SlimsBFG wrote:
    Yeah TJ...I've been following your posts diligently! You live out in WV like me!

    I haven't purchased the book yet I (this paycheck I will), and wouldn't feel comfortable bothering Mitch with such a question I already know the answer to.

    I'm fairly clear with all the OC laws, other than the holstered gunon the dash is considered OK part. Thanks for the clarification, and I trust your advice as I feel you're a competent/law-abiding OC'er!!! :celebrate

    ALWAYS read up on the Laws so that YOU are familiar with them according to your understanding as well.

    Talk to Clark about the "Dash Carry". This way YOU will get it from the "horse's mouth" so to speak.

    Clark is VERY helpful. ESPECIALLY with "new" carriers.

    And Thanks BTW. WVC PD is on my case alright.

    TJ
    Oh, good luck with your WVC PD issue and you're welcome!

    This is exactly why I'm a little leary to OC in WVC...but something inside of me wants to do it anyway!!!

  11. #11
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    SlimsBFG wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SlimsBFG wrote:
    Yeah TJ...I've been following your posts diligently! You live out in WV like me!

    I haven't purchased the book yet I (this paycheck I will), and wouldn't feel comfortable bothering Mitch with such a question I already know the answer to.

    I'm fairly clear with all the OC laws, other than the holstered gunon the dash is considered OK part. Thanks for the clarification, and I trust your advice as I feel you're a competent/law-abiding OC'er!!! :celebrate

    ALWAYS read up on the Laws so that YOU are familiar with them according to your understanding as well.

    Talk to Clark about the "Dash Carry". This way YOU will get it from the "horse's mouth" so to speak.

    Clark is VERY helpful. ESPECIALLY with "new" carriers.

    And Thanks BTW. WVC PD is on my case alright.

    TJ
    Oh, good luck with your WVC PD issue and you're welcome!

    This is exactly why I'm a little leary to OC in WVC...but something inside of me wants to do it anyway!!!
    The More the merrier:celebratein WVC that OC's. That will just make WVC PD to "get use to it" faster.



    TJ

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I would suggest to get a paddle holster for your gun and carry it "Utah Loaded". As you are about to enter the car you can do 1 out of 2 things.
    I think (hope) TJ meant to say carry "Utah Unloaded".

    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    The whole "securely encased" thing is to avoid getting charged with carrying a concealed firearm. If the firearm is clearly visible, it does not need to be securely encased. You could hang it from your rear view mirror if that floats your boat.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I would suggest to get a paddle holster for your gun and carry it "Utah Loaded". As you are about to enter the car you can do 1 out of 2 things.
    I think (hope) TJ meant to say carry "Utah Unloaded".

    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    The whole "securely encased" thing is to avoid getting charged with carrying a concealed firearm. If the firearm is clearly visible, it does not need to be securely encased. You could hang it from your rear view mirror if that floats your boat.

    ROFL..Thank you! I understood what TJ meant to say! That pretty much removes any fear I have now!

    Next fill-up and pop run, I'll be OC'ing!


  14. #14
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    SlimsBFG wrote:
    SGT Jensen wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I would suggest to get a paddle holster for your gun and carry it "Utah Loaded". As you are about to enter the car you can do 1 out of 2 things.
    I think (hope) TJ meant to say carry "Utah Unloaded".

    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    The whole "securely encased" thing is to avoid getting charged with carrying a concealed firearm. If the firearm is clearly visible, it does not need to be securely encased. You could hang it from your rear view mirror if that floats your boat.

    ROFL..Thank you! I understood what TJ meant to say! That pretty much removes any fear I have now!

    Next fill-up and pop run, I'll be OC'ing!

    :celebrate:celebrateNeed a report when you come back:celebrate:celebrate



    TJ


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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I would suggest to get a paddle holster for your gun and carry it "Utah Loaded". As you are about to enter the car you can do 1 out of 2 things.
    I think (hope) TJ meant to say carry "Utah Unloaded".

    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    The whole "securely encased" thing is to avoid getting charged with carrying a concealed firearm. If the firearm is clearly visible, it does not need to be securely encased. You could hang it from your rear view mirror if that floats your boat.
    So that means, so long and your Weapon is snuggly in your SERPA, in plain view - your okay to drive without a CC permit? Did i read that wrong?

  16. #16
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    As long as the weapon is utah unloaded and in plain view you can drive with it without a CC permit. It doesn't have to be in a holster.

    You however can't be in a school zone without the gun unloaded and locked (not in the glovebox). So if you are OCing in your car and you drive though a school zone without a CC permit you just committed a federal felony.

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    Cykaos wrote:
    As long as the weapon is utah unloaded and in plain view you can drive with it without a CC permit. It doesn't have to be in a holster.

    You however can't be in a school zone without the gun unloaded and locked (not in the glovebox). So if you are OCing in your car and you drive though a school zone without a CC permit you just committed a federal felony.
    Geez - Thank you for the info.

    So, ONE solution could be to carry your little blue lock box, (that comes with almost every gun if bought new..) and to put your firearm unloaded and locked in your little box thingy BEFORE you hit the school zone. Right? But, aren't you brandishing at the point you remove your sidearm and put it in the box while driving?

    Im not trying to be a smart ass BTW, lol, trying to figure this whole thing out.

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    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    So, ONE solution could be to carry your little blue lock box, (that comes with almost every gun if bought new..) and to put your firearm unloaded and locked in your little box thingy BEFORE you hit the school zone. Right?
    Yes, this is acceptable under Utah law, however, that box would need to be locked (with an actual lock, not just closed) to satisfy federal law. Damn school zones!

    But, aren't you brandishing at the point you remove your sidearm and put it in the box while driving?
    The word "brandishing" does not appear anywhere in Utah law, only threatening.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    So, ONE solution could be to carry your little blue lock box, (that comes with almost every gun if bought new..) and to put your firearm unloaded and locked in your little box thingy BEFORE you hit the school zone. Right?
    Yes, this is acceptable under Utah law, however, that box would need to be locked (with an actual lock, not just closed) to satisfy federal law. Damn school zones!

    But, aren't you brandishing at the point you remove your sidearm and put it in the box while driving?
    The word "brandishing" does not appear anywhere in Utah law, only threatening.
    ok. thanks for info!

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    Yes, it is considered legal by BCI's (Bureau of Criminal Identification) interpretation.

    There is 1 person that you can for sure ask these questions and that is Clark Aposhian, the Chairman of the Review Board at BCI. And also Chairman for Utah Shooting Council.

    His cell # is 801-560-4836

    Oh. I almost forgot. As OCDO carriers we kinda have our "designated" Attorney Mitch Vilos. He is also the Author to the book "Utah Gun Laws". Get it it's a VERY good book. It's almost mandatory to get that before you "strap" on so to speak.

    Mitch's # is 801-560-7117





    TJ
    Tj,

    putting it on your dash in a holster does NOT satisfy the federal school zone act. He must completely (not just Utah) unload and put in a locking case. Doesn't matter if its in the back or front seat at that point.

  21. #21
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    putting it on your dash in a holster does NOT satisfy the federal school zone act. He must completely (not just Utah) unload and put in a locking case. Doesn't matter if its in the back or front seat at that point.
    He realizes that. He is simply talking about OC in a car. #2 of his post talks about locking it in a case for school zones.

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    Cykaos wrote:
    putting it on your dash in a holster does NOT satisfy the federal school zone act. He must completely (not just Utah) unload and put in a locking case. Doesn't matter if its in the back or front seat at that point.
    He realizes that. He is simply talking about OC in a car. #2 of his post talks about locking it in a case for school zones.
    Well, show me an effective route to any destination that misses school zones.

  23. #23
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SlimsBFG wrote:
    I thought having the gun just in a holster wasn't considered "secured". I have a Blackhawk SERPA holster...so if I had that on my dash in the car Utah unloaded, would be considered legal?
    Yes, it is considered legal by BCI's (Bureau of Criminal Identification) interpretation.

    There is 1 person that you can for sure ask these questions and that is Clark Aposhian, the Chairman of the Review Board at BCI. And also Chairman for Utah Shooting Council.

    His cell # is 801-560-4836

    Oh. I almost forgot. As OCDO carriers we kinda have our "designated" Attorney Mitch Vilos. He is also the Author to the book "Utah Gun Laws". Get it it's a VERY good book. It's almost mandatory to get that before you "strap" on so to speak.

    Mitch's # is 801-560-7117





    TJ
    Now those are two phone numbers i want to have...

  24. #24
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    Before I got my permit, I use to carry my gun in its case that had a padlock on it. Each time I exited my vehicle, I removed the padlock before exiting and placed it on the seat. I would then exit my vehicle and discretely holster the weapon. In utah you don't have to have it in the trunk. The law sates that if not readily accessible and having a padlock made it not readily accessible and also protected me as I routinely had to pick up my kids from school. I know tactically it wasn't as good as having it unconcealed on the dash but It was what I chose to do.

  25. #25
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    mazellan819 wrote:
    Before I got my permit, I use to carry my gun in its case that had a padlock on it. Each time I exited my vehicle, I removed the padlock before exiting and placed it on the seat. I would then exit my vehicle and discretely holster the weapon. In utah you don't have to have it in the trunk. The law sates that if not readily accessible and having a padlock made it not readily accessible and also protected me as I routinely had to pick up my kids from school. I know tactically it wasn't as good as having it unconcealed on the dash but It was what I chose to do.
    well: it sounds like you covered your ass very well as a Pre-non-permit holder OCer. I think i should follow your example as a non-permit holder OCer and do the same since i do not have CC yet.

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