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Thread: OC and body mods

  1. #1
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    well, with the 2 tats that show on my forearms now, and the 3 piercings in my face (lower lip, like the mayans, and stretched ears, only at 6g so far) iget alot of strange looks as it is (probably draws the attention off the gun on my side too) but a few people have noticed... and this state, being as religious as it is,still has its fair share of "judges". ive been judged on my appearance quite a bit, and kevin and TJ both were at one of my encounters, and i wont get into it lol. I really enjoy body modification, it hasnt changed me as a person, ive always been the same, and i have seen a couple other OCers with piercings and tats, and i think thats AWESOME!

    i wonder what will happen if i have a police encounter now? do you think that i would get into more trouble for looking like this LOL!

    i only OC when im wearing jeans and a white tee now, which is a normal wardrobe for me pretty much... when i wear all black it just attracts too much attention when i carry (unless were at an OC meet!!! )

    but the thing i have to say to everyone is...

    "Judge not, least YE be judged."

    people judge on appearance alot, but God knows whats in our hearts

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    First off, I don't really like tattoos or gauged ears. I feel that tattoos are something that people end up regretting later on in life and are disrespectful to the gift (our body) God has given us (yes, my bias is mainly based on religious beliefs). However, this doesn't mean that I don't allow others their free agency (choice) to do what they will, it just means that I won't do those things.

    As per being judged, I think that's a harsh term to use. Granted, there may be some bible-thumping relious nuts out there who are actually judging you as a person because of the way you look; however, most people that look at you strangely is because you just look strange. Tattoos and gauged ears (body modification) is not normal. The majority of people do not have multiple tattoos or guaged ears, so it's unusual and people notice. It's just like the black guy walking around downtown Santaquin - people look. They're not looking at him because there's anything wrong with being black, it's just that seeing a black person in rural Utah is not common. Some people would claim this added attention as racism, but it has nothing to do with race, but more about what is common and therefor ignored.

    When you look different than the majority of people, you can expect to be looked at differently, be it carrying a gun on your hip, having tattoos, guaging your ears, or having a different skin color. It's impossible to know what the majority of these people are thinking and thus improper to assume they are judging you based on their religious principles.

    On a side note, you judge (evaluate would be a better word) people every day. What about the shady guy in the parking lot at night or the group of punk kids who enter the convenience mart acting all boistrous or even the little old lady trying free a jammed cart at the grocery store. You assume that the guy may be up to no good, the punks might become violent or theive and that the old lady needs help; all of which could be completely incorrect. What we need to be careful about is judging someone's character without sufficient evidence. Evaluating someone's appearance and making decisions is a survival mechanism and the basis for the color awareness system. If you stay in condition yellow, you MUST evaluate people all the time and this awareness will help keep you alive.

    Don't take it offensively, people will do what they will do, the only thing you can control is how you behave and the impression you leave in their minds.

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    As much as people dont like to admit it stereotypes are a fact of life. You see a bunch of gangbanger looking teens in a dark ally at 2am they could just be helping a friend jumpstart their car... but you you want your grandma walking down that ally at the same time with a wad of cash in her hand? People see tats and piercings and jump straight to the worst.

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    i do agree, but i dont mean what the people are "thinking" but what people are saying aloud, in my face, it isnt something out Lord would have done

    we do judge people on appearance, i do it all the time. when i see someone with a bandana on their head, loose clothing, in my head im thinking "gangster"

    when i see someone with long hair and hippy clothes, we think "pot head"

    we DO think these things, but we dont say aloud, to their face, what we think about them, we generally keep it to ourselves... but i have been confronted and people told me to my face what they thought about it... kevin and TJ know LOL!!

  5. #5
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    I'm sorry that people have done that to you, I didn't get that from your OP. If you don't mind sharing your experience, I would like to read it. Not that it will help what has already happened, but it may help us understand better.

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    It's not judging so much, as there is no penalty for non compliance, but simple human nature in thatpeople simply prefer to be near others with similar values. I have my reasons for NOT wanting to do those things to myself based on my own personal religions and social values.

    Not knowing who you are and your reasons for doing what you do, I'm not going to get into your head to figure out your "why" while passing you on the street. The only way to gauge you..is by looking at myself. I know my "why" for NOT wanting to do that to myself and must conclude that you have a different value set when it comes to your body. Not judging or necessarily worse or better, just different, but one that I would not prefer.

    Make sense?

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    b1ack5mith wrote:
    i wonder what will happen if i have a police encounter now? do you think that i would get into more trouble for looking like this LOL!
    Maybe, but probably not. I think you're more likely to have a police encounter, but I don't know that it'll actually change the outcome that much.

    I think the bigger risk is -- and please take this with the goodwill with which I intend it -- that your modifications will cast OC in a negative light.

    Follow my reasoning here:

    OC is unusual, and a little frightening to people. We OC in large part because we want to get people used to the idea. When people who might be frightened a little by a gun see a man who is well-dressed and respectable-looking, they're less likely to be unnerved by it, and less likely to call the police or, perhaps worse, notify the store manager. If police and store owners feel excessively hassled by all of these calls, they may begin to ask for legislation to restrict OC.

    I think that risk exists whether you OC with or without body mods and with or without "unusual" clothing styles, but given the expectations and reactions of most people, many of whom will see your modified body as frightening even without the sidearm, I think you run a much greater risk of pushing people to act against our rights.

    This may sound like I'm saying you should have to look and dress a certain way to OC. I'm not. I don't think you SHOULD have to. I'm just saying that the reality is that it may be more helpful to the OC movement if everyone who OCs looks "respectable", at least until it has a broader base of acceptance.

    You're a better judge than any of us just how much negativity your appearance is likely to create, since you deal with the reactions daily. Think it over, make your decisions, and act accordingly.

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    i do understand that swill.

    if you guys look at the pictures of TJ, kevin and i at the republican convention a couple months ago, youll see that i was wearing western clothes, with nicely fixed hair. i do not look "threatening", however that was when my first encounter happened... with a person confronting my looks. i was told "i dont think someone who would do that to himself has the mental stability to own a firearm" i have never had anyone question my mental stability before, so this kind of annoyed me. however, i wasnt using wisdom when i spoke back, looking back, i should just have used scripture to settle it, but either way, he walked away. In the Bible, it mentions 3 or 4 different times of nose rings given as a gift to people, yet those are still considered a taboo? my tattoos on my arms are of the cross, and the fish, both representing Jesus.

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    here is my opinion on the whole matter. i think that people were possibly feel more threatened and that there might be more police calls due to what you are wearing now. now this opinion comes from where i was raised. i grew up in a fairly rough area of town. and people would figure that anyone dressed similar to you with ear rings and things would be gang involved. but i know you so i don't really care what you dress like...you a decent kid...

    we need to go shoot sometime...like yeah...weathers nice...i got a few rifles that need warmed up...:celebrate

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    dude kev and i are sposed to be goin soon, call him and see if his wife will let him out to play!

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    rocknsnow wrote:
    we need to go shoot sometime...like yeah...weathers nice...i got a few rifles that need warmed up...:celebrate
    +1 Except I'm looking for ranges up to at least 300 yds.

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    Francis Marion wrote:
    rocknsnow wrote:
    we need to go shoot sometime...like yeah...weathers nice...i got a few rifles that need warmed up...:celebrate
    +1 Except I'm looking for ranges up to at least 300 yds.
    If we go out to like 5 mile area there are places we could set up a range for however long you want. a buddy of mine (sf army kid) and i went out and made a 1000-1500m range one day.

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    swillden wrote:
    I think the bigger risk is -- and please take this with the goodwill with which I intend it -- that your modifications will cast OC in a negative light.

    When people who might be frightened a little by a gun see a man who is well-dressed and respectable-looking, they're less likely to be unnerved by it,..........I'm just saying that the reality is that it may be more helpful to the OC movement if everyone who OCs looks "respectable", at least until it has a broader base of acceptance.
    so would you consider a cowboy hat or boots as "respectable looking?.....seeing as the some opposed to OC use the phrase "this isnt the wild wild west" in reference to OCer's or do you think they would also cast OC in a negative light?

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    Maybe not negative, but definitely stereotypical.

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    and i also have to say that those who say someones preference of attire or body mods will cast OC in a negative light, sound an awful lot like CCer's who say OCer's cast a negative light on gun owners and shouldnt OC.

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    BobCav wrote:
    It's not judging so much, as there is no penalty for non compliance, but simple human nature in thatpeople simply prefer to be near others with similar values. I have my reasons for NOT wanting to do those things to myself based on my own personal religions and social values.

    Not knowing who you are and your reasons for doing what you do, I'm not going to get into your head to figure out your "why" while passing you on the street. The only way to gauge you..is by looking at myself. I know my "why" for NOT wanting to do that to myself and must conclude that you have a different value set when it comes to your body. Not judging or necessarily worse or better, just different, but one that I would not prefer.

    Make sense?
    An anti letter-to-the-editor posted here recently featured the observation that OC was an indication of who to shun. I'm not required to explain my reasons for not associating with some one any more than is the anti required to justify his associations.

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    and i also have to say that those who say someones preference of attire or body mods will cast OC in a negative light, sound an awful lot like CCer's who say OCer's cast a negative light on gun owners and shouldnt OC.
    I think swillden was just trying to say that there are people out there who will look down on him for the way he dresses/mods his body. That's just an unfortunate fact of the world we live in. Sure, if we all dressed normal and boring then our cause might move faster, but I also like that we are a diverse group, saying that there is no "stereotypical" gun owner, people from all walks of life have decided to arm themselves against the aggressors in our society.

    Ultimately, it's your choice Travis, make it and stick behind it, just be polite and courteous regardless of how you look.

  18. #18
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    I have tattoos that you can see, The words "To Keep And Bear Arms" around my left wrist, above where my watch rides, and the flag as well.

    I have plans for more, all based on a patriotic/2A theme.

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    dkd wrote:
    so would you consider a cowboy hat or boots as "respectable looking?.....seeing as the some opposed to OC use the phrase "this isnt the wild wild west" in reference to OCer's or do you think they would also cast OC in a negative light?
    What I consider respectable-looking isn't really relevant. The issue is what the average person thinks, and especially what people in positions of political influence think.

    Personally, I think cowboy attire wouldn't trigger a fearful reaction, and so wouldn't be negative. It would probably confirm the opinions of those who think OC'ers are nutjobs who want to live in the wild west, and while that means it is less likely to create a positive impression, I don't think it would be negative.

    Tats and piercings aren't necessarily frightening either, especially if the individually is obviously polite and friendly. Tats and piercings added to gang attire, a scowling expression and an aggressive attitude, however, would get strong negative attention.

    If we want to help OC, our goal should be to look as non-threatening as possible. If you've got body modifications, you just need to smile that much bigger.

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    swillden wrote:
    dkd wrote:
    so would you consider a cowboy hat or boots as "respectable looking?.....seeing as the some opposed to OC use the phrase "this isnt the wild wild west" in reference to OCer's or do you think they would also cast OC in a negative light?
    What I consider respectable-looking isn't really relevant. The issue is what the average person thinks, and especially what people in positions of political influence think.

    Personally, I think cowboy attire wouldn't trigger a fearful reaction, and so wouldn't be negative. It would probably confirm the opinions of those who think OC'ers are nutjobs who want to live in the wild west, and while that means it is less likely to create a positive impression, I don't think it would be negative.

    Tats and piercings aren't necessarily frightening either, especially if the individually is obviously polite and friendly. Tats and piercings added to gang attire, a scowling expression and an aggressive attitude, however, would get strong negative attention.

    If we want to help OC, our goal should be to look as non-threatening as possible. If you've got body modifications, you just need to smile that much bigge
    im a smiley guy! (<<< see!)

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    i can definatly relate to this topic. we'll just see how many ppl will sit down to talk to me at the BBQ lol

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    so would you consider a cowboy hat or boots as "respectable looking?.....seeing as the some opposed to OC use the phrase "this isnt the wild wild west" in reference to OCer's or do you think they would also cast OC in a negative light?

    and i also have to say that those who say someones preference of attire or body mods will cast OC in a negative light, sound an awful lot like CCer's who say OCer's cast a negative light on gun owners and shouldnt OC.
    That is exactly how I see it. I think people should wear whatever they want regardless but I do think OCing in western gear casts a negative light on OC as well as someone dressed as a gang banger, biker, goth, emo, (insert other style here not considered normal). If you dress outside the norm and OC people are going to think and sometimes vocalize negative things and it very well could leave a negative image of OC in their minds. People in Western gear are gun nuts or think this is the wild west. They are immature and playing cowboys. People with tattoos and body mods are suicidal and aren't mentally stable. The arguments are different but if you aren't dressed "normal" it will leave a negative impression on some people.

    The CCers have a perfectly valid claim that OC casts a negative light on gun owners and hurts the gun rights movement. With CC no one knows they have a gun but with OC people see the gun and this can scare people and turn them off from gun rights. Many people don't care if people CC because they are ignorant of it and it doesn't bother them. Many support CC but are against OC for that reason. With OC they see the gun and are afraid, with CC they are oblivious. They say "as long as I don't see it or know it's there then it's ok"

    The most important thing though is that it is your right to OC and the whole point is to excercise that right. Why would you waive the right to your appearance in order to OC? You shouldn't chose which rights to excercise because once you give up one right to excercise another you are losing.

    I have lived in various places in the country and also in other parts of the world and I have to say people here in Utah are very judgmental about things that are different. People tend to be close minded and think less of people who are different. I am not saying everyone is like that or even the majority. I am just saying compared to other places I have lived, the people here are more judgmental than other places.

  23. #23
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    b1ack5mith wrote:

    but the thing i have to say to everyone is...

    "Judge not, least YE be judged."

    people judge on appearance alot, but God knows whats in our hearts
    Respectfully, why do you choose to look the way you do if NOT to draw attention to yourself?

    Unless you have some religious or other belief that requires you to "modify" your body with tats and piercings we are not talking about the yarmulkes or long hair that Jews might wear, the burkas or turbans of the middle east, or even the long dresses and other distinctive styles of some of the polygamists or amish.

    Now, I really don't much care how you dress or look so long as you do not appear dangerous or threatening to me and are not asking my daughter on a date. And while the content of character is much more important than outward appearance, let's not pretend that our CHOICES in how we look are not indicative of at least SOME of our values. I'm not suggesting that how you look means you are a good person or bad person. But be honest, your choices in outward appearance DO reflect SOMETHING of what is inside you, don't they?

    There are aspects about our looks over which we have no choice: our height, color, sex, physical disability, age, injury, etc. And any judgment based on such appearances are indeed unworthy decent, intelligent men. Even inexpensive vs designer clothing or other indications of material wealth are in many cases not at all important.

    But if a man CHOOSES to put fish hooks through his lip, or studs in his nose, or stretch his ear lopes out or sport a bright purple mohawk that stands 2 feet tall on his head he can hardly complain if people notice, and having noticed, if they react in some way or try to come to some rational for WHY a person would choose styles and appearance so far from the mainstream.

    Now, I expect that most police officers are professional enough that about 5 seconds into visiting with you your appearance will matter FAR LESS than does your demeanor. But I would think you might get a lot more "man with a gun calls" if for no other reason than you are very noticeable (and THAT is your intent, isn't it? I mean if you wanted to blend in, you'd not choose to look the way you do.). Hence, YOU, and your firearm will be noticed by a lot more people than say I and my gun will be.

    I speak somewhat from personal experience here being known to wearing a kilt, including with full formal Scottish attire, whenever occasion permits. I get a LOT more attention in that kilt than I do in my normal Saxon attire, even with a gun on my hip in pants. Most folks seem to love the sight of a man in a kilt. A few don't. It's ok because when I CHOOSE to look so out of the norm, I EXPECT, even enjoy, a little bit of extra attention. Judgments ARE made about me when I wear my kilt. Whether flattering or not, accurate or far from the mark I cannot control. But neither will I fault people for trying to make some sense of their world when something unusual is introduced.

    Finally, recognize that in the part of the world where you are living while a kilt may be unusual, no small portion of the population views tats and body piercings as contrary to their religious beliefs and teachings, even sinful. Those beliefs are likely to influence how they react to you.

    All the best.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  24. #24
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    :celebrate:celebrate



  25. #25
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    Those tats are pretty minimal and likely to be missed by most unless something about your face or dress draws attention to you. Of course, you've got the right to dress as you see fit, but I expect that T-shirt will draw a little more attention while OCing in town than would a plain polo shirt. But, of course, a T is usually a little more comfortable for a day at the range which is what this photo seems to be.

    Any particular reason your finger is sneaking inside the trigger guard in the photo?:shock: Big no-no there for safety.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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