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Thread: my apartment complex and police deparment

  1. #1
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    in my lease at my complex it says were not aloud to have firearms on the premises or in our apartment. Is there anything in the gun laws that prohibits them from not allowing me to have a gun .



    Another note i called the state police department yesterday to ask them what they thought about open carry, and with no hesitation she asked me if i had a permit i said yes then she replied saying its legal. I know its legal i just called for my own cause and to hear it from the police. Thats it

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    slowzx320 wrote:
    in my lease at my complex it says were not aloud to have firearms on the premises or in our apartment. Is there anything in the gun laws that prohibits them from not allowing me to have a gun .



    Another note i called the state police department yesterday to ask them what they thought about open carry, and with no hesitation she asked me if i had a permit i said yes then she replied saying its legal. I know its legal i just called for my own cause and to hear it from the police. Thats it
    I know its legal i just called for my own cause and to hear it from the police.

    I guess the local PD KNOWS their stuff. One of the VERY few out there that does.

    Here in Utah they would NOT be able to...
    complex it says were not aloud to have firearms on the premises or in our apartment.
    ...due to...

    76-10-530

    "5) Nothing in this section permits an owner who has granted the lawful right of possession to a renter or lessee to restrict the renter or lessee from lawfully possessing a firearm in the residence."


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Don't know about Indiana though. Sorry



    TJ

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    Thats ok i need not to be lazy and search it. And about the polisce deparment that jus gives me just that more confidence to OC now

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I would say that it is pure BS. When you rent, you are seized of the property and have all rights to it as if you owned it. Similar to "special bailee" rights. What if they said no bible? No landscape paintings? Research state laws--search under "renters rights, landlord restrictions, etc" and I'm sure you can come up with a statute protecting your right to have anything, legal, within your property.

    In general, a special bailee has all rights to a property, real or chattel, except to those who actually own it. The owner transfers his rights through a vehicle, viz., a lease. Short of selling your apartment to somebody, you have rights as if you actually owned it. Quote from Common Law:



    "The test of the theory of possession which prevails in any system of law is to be found in its mode of dealing who have a thing within their power, but not own it, or assert the position of an owner for with regard to it, bailees, in a word. It is therefore, as a preliminary to understanding the common-law theory of possession, to study the common law with regard to bailees. "
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    I would say that it is pure BS. When you rent, you are seized of the property and have all rights to it as if you owned it. Similar to "special bailee" rights. What if they said no bible? No landscape paintings? Research state laws--search under "renters rights, landlord restrictions, etc" and I'm sure you can come up with a statute protecting your right to have anything, legal, within your property.

    In general, a special bailee has all rights to a property, real or chattel, except to those who actually own it. The owner transfers his rights through a vehicle, viz., a lease. Short of selling your apartment to somebody, you have rights as if you actually owned it. Quote from Common Law:



    "The test of the theory of possession which prevails in any system of law is to be found in its mode of dealing who have a thing within their power, but not own it, or assert the position of an owner for with regard to it, bailees, in a word. It is therefore, as a preliminary to understanding the common-law theory of possession, to study the common law with regard to bailees. "
    Not saying that I don't agree with you in principle, but can you cite the Indiana court case or law that says this? In the absence of a specific law or court case on this, I would err on the side of the lease. Because you are a renter and not an owner, you have to abide by the owner's rules as set forth in the lease if you want to live there, regardless of how unreasonable they are. Just like the owners have the right to place these restrictions on people living on their property, you also have the right not to live there.

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    tattedupboy wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    I would say that it is pure BS. When you rent, you are seized of the property and have all rights to it as if you owned it. Similar to "special bailee" rights. What if they said no bible? No landscape paintings? Research state laws--search under "renters rights, landlord restrictions, etc" and I'm sure you can come up with a statute protecting your right to have anything, legal, within your property.

    In general, a special bailee has all rights to a property, real or chattel, except to those who actually own it. The owner transfers his rights through a vehicle, viz., a lease. Short of selling your apartment to somebody, you have rights as if you actually owned it. Quote from Common Law:



    "The test of the theory of possession which prevails in any system of law is to be found in its mode of dealing who have a thing within their power, but not own it, or assert the position of an owner for with regard to it, bailees, in a word. It is therefore, as a preliminary to understanding the common-law theory of possession, to study the common law with regard to bailees. "
    Not saying that I don't agree with you in principle, but can you cite the Indiana court case or law that says this? In the absence of a specific law or court case on this, I would err on the side of the lease. Because you are a renter and not an owner, you have to abide by the owner's rules as set forth in the lease if you want to live there, regardless of how unreasonable they are. Just like the owners have the right to place these restrictions on people living on their property, you also have the right not to live there.

    i agree on both, i just dont see how theyre going to holdsomething frommesoi can protectmy family and belongings theres no security here dont get me wrong its a great neigborhood. just dont see how the can take that right from you


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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    slowzx320 wrote:
    tattedupboy wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    I would say that it is pure BS. When you rent, you are seized of the property and have all rights to it as if you owned it. Similar to "special bailee" rights. What if they said no bible? No landscape paintings? Research state laws--search under "renters rights, landlord restrictions, etc" and I'm sure you can come up with a statute protecting your right to have anything, legal, within your property.

    In general, a special bailee has all rights to a property, real or chattel, except to those who actually own it. The owner transfers his rights through a vehicle, viz., a lease. Short of selling your apartment to somebody, you have rights as if you actually owned it. Quote from Common Law:



    "The test of the theory of possession which prevails in any system of law is to be found in its mode of dealing who have a thing within their power, but not own it, or assert the position of an owner for with regard to it, bailees, in a word. It is therefore, as a preliminary to understanding the common-law theory of possession, to study the common law with regard to bailees. "
    Not saying that I don't agree with you in principle, but can you cite the Indiana court case or law that says this? In the absence of a specific law or court case on this, I would err on the side of the lease. Because you are a renter and not an owner, you have to abide by the owner's rules as set forth in the lease if you want to live there, regardless of how unreasonable they are. Just like the owners have the right to place these restrictions on people living on their property, you also have the right not to live there.

    i agree on both, i just dont see how theyre going to holdsomething frommesoi can protectmy family and belongings theres no security here dont get me wrong its a great neigborhood. just dont see how the can take that right from you
    Not familiar with IN case law, hence I referred strictly to Common Law tenant's (sic or tenets if you prefer...) rights. Keep in mind, the renter is renting you space for any lawful purpose. Common Law restricts his authority to render your use of that space, beyond what would be, to the reasonable man, hazards to it, such as keeping pets--or even smoking. Chattel property kept in that space, failing presenting a reasonable hazard, is not within the allowable restrictions.
    As I said, run a search for restrictions to bailment and you can find out case law easily enough.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    I agree with most of this. When you rent, it is just like owning the rights to that property. But property rights exist in a bundle. You can lease out as many or as few of the rights as you want. For instance, I can lease the house to you while still maintaining the oil or water rights. Unless state law prohibits a landlord from doing this (as you mentioned in Utah) then nothing stops the both of you from entering this agreement willingly. Simply put, you were leased the certain rights to that property spelled out in the lease, not the right to move walls, paint the building green, or keep fishtanks or weapons or whatever else they prohibited.

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    slowzx320 wrote:
    in my lease at my complex it says were not aloud to have firearms on the premises or in our apartment. Is there anything in the gun laws that prohibits them from not allowing me to have a gun .



    Another note i called the state police department yesterday to ask them what they thought about open carry, and with no hesitation she asked me if i had a permit i said yes then she replied saying its legal. I know its legal i just called for my own cause and to hear it from the police. Thats it
    As far a criminal action against you, there in no violation of law taking place by you having a firearm in your apartment, in violation of the lease. That is CRIMINAL I am talking about.

    In regards to civil, the landlord can bring eviction proceedings against you if you are in violation of your lease. Indiana has no firearms protection clauses in its Rental Statutes that I can find. Source: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title32/ar31/

    Frankly, I would not worry about it. First, it would require that your landlord or his agent enter your premises for a legitimate purpose. That means you need maintenance, or something to such effect. Since you would be the one calling them, I am sure you could place any firearms in an area that is out of view.

    Secondly, in the event your landlord comes to knowledge that you possess firearms, he would have to actually be willing to profess such knowledge. Most apartments place "no firearms" clauses for liability reasons. If someone injures a neighbor or such with a firearm, the apartment is off the hook because they can state you were in violation of your lease. Some attorneys have "shotgunned" (a legal approach of suing everyone remotely connected to an incident) apartments, stating that if the apartments had prevented firearms from being on site, then the event could not have happened.

    Thirdly, frankly, I would rather risk the slight chance of eviction, versus the risk of having an intruder in my home and being disarmed. Face it, you are in apartments. (So am I.) Apartments are cheap. Cheap tends to attract those who need cheap. You know, drug addicts, ex-cons, and the such.

    But, again, IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer). But I wouldn't sweat it to much. Just be subtle about it.


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    slowzx320 wrote:
    in my lease at my complex it says were not aloud to have firearms on the premises or in our apartment. Is there anything in the gun laws that prohibits them from not allowing me to have a gun .



    Another note i called the state police department yesterday to ask them what they thought about open carry, and with no hesitation she asked me if i had a permit i said yes then she replied saying its legal. I know its legal i just called for my own cause and to hear it from the police. Thats it
    Slowzx, the State Police here in Michigan are fully aware of the legalities of CC and OC mainly through training bulletins and updates made available to the troopers. It is good to hear that ISP confirms this, however, most likely you will not get the same response/treatmentfrom your local PD's.

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    yea dont know bout local police here. but i did go to holland michigan this weekend and OCd there and no problems WTF is with the no left turns???? lol

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    When I was in my apartment they said I couldn’t keep guns in my apartment when I said how they can do that I was told “it is our property and we can saw what you can and can not do on it” I then told them that I will not be renting an apartment from them she just took the rental agreement and edited out the no gun part and as far as I know (Other then the cop who lived 5 doors away)I was the only one with guns.

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    They have zero chance of enforcing such a clause in a rental contract.

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    Sure they can say you can't have guns. And if they word their lease right they can enforce it.

    You my be living there but it is not "your" property. It is theirs. Most apartments have a clause that their maintenance people can enter to perform their duties. Most will give you notice. Some state in the lease that they don't have to give notice. If they see a firearm you could be evicted.

    If they wanted to they could put a clause in the lease stating that they are allowed to conduct a full search. You can say they don't have that right, but they do. You have the right to not sign and live somewhere else.

    Be careful what you sign.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Beau wrote:
    Sure they can say you can't have guns. And if they word their lease right they can enforce it.

    You my be living there but it is not "your" property. It is theirs. Most apartments have a clause that their maintenance people can enter to perform their duties. Most will give you notice. Some state in the lease that they don't have to give notice. If they see a firearm you could be evicted.

    If they wanted to they could put a clause in the lease stating that they are allowed to conduct a full search. You can say they don't have that right, but they do. You have the right to not sign and live somewhere else.

    Be careful what you sign.
    You are incorrect 100% .
    A landlord can't just put "whatever they want in a lease". There is a Landlord Tenet Act in ever State. There is a FEDERAL Privacy Act that covers all 50 state. There are civil rights laws as well. Many States specifically say a landlord can't regulate firearms. Read your State constitution for a start.

    Landlords are NOT permitted to search a tenants property as a matter of law. They can't just enter whenever they want either. You must be notified beforehand. Unless there is a imminent emergency like a fire or water pipe leak.

    There is no such thing as signing away your Constitutional Rights. It can't be demanded as a condition of a lease. When you lease the property, it is legally YOUR property for the term of the lease. Tenants have the same legal privacy rights as an actual owner would. Sure the owners can perform limited inspections and maintenance (with prior notice) during regular business hours.

    I don't know where you got these wacky ideas and hope you were just being sarcastic, otherwise you have the distinction of being the biggest idiot I have run across on this board in two years.

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    Also check if you had any of those housing project gun law suites.
    If they can't bar guns in 'public' housing, I can't see how they can stretch it to apartments.

    You said it was policy, but was it on your lease that you signed?
    If so then start documenting other violations, parkng, fire, trash, dealing etc.
    Then if ever caught cut a deal to not turn them in also.
    Mutual assured eviction.

    Unless you have major problems with your management, then it should never be an issue.
    Just practice your story about how the BG brought the gun and you were taking it from him
    per the rules, and it went off.


    The murky area, is they do allow "Home Owner Assoc." to trample all sorts of property rights,
    even so far as retroactivly applying those losses.
    And you do own the property there.

    I don't miss the old days of changing my breaks on the sholder of the road
    because you couldn't work on your car.


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    This is why I own my home .....

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