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open carry in Wisconsin state park, forest, campgroud

BJA

Campaign Veteran
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May 4, 2008
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503
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SOuth Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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You can open carry in a county park right? I mean in wisconsin local laws cannot inhibit your right to possess, transport ot use a weapon. I'm heading up to Big Falls COunty Park in price county and hope to start open carrying at least up there.



thx, Ben
 

WIG19

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, Wisconsin, USA
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BLUF: BJA you should check with your county. Understanding the pre-emption issue, I think what might confuse folks is that with 66.0409 saying a local statute can be "no more stringent" than state statute - and carry in state parks not permitted - what would be the prohibition that would keep a city or county from having an enforceable statute regarding their parks? No carry in a park would not be more stringent than the staterule which says...

NR 45.09(1)
(1) No person may take, catch, kill, hunt, trap or pursue any wild animal or bird, or discharge any firearm, or have in possession or under control any firearm or air gun as defined in s.939.22, unless it is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case...

:?
 

Lammie

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, Wisconsin, USA
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While I was growing up in northern Minnesota my father always told me that the secret to bear hunting was to always hunt with a partner. Just make sure the partner you pick can run a might slower than you.

On a more serious note:

This is probably a moot point as it regards the objective of this forum to carry firearms for personal protection, but I offer it as a matter of precision. Whether or not loaded uncased firearms are allowed in State parks is largely at the discretion of the DNR. The DNR can open State parks for the use of certain firearms for hunting certain game during hunting season. Of course that in itself allows the open carry of loaded weapons at that time.
 

WIG19

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, Wisconsin, USA
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Lammie wrote:
On a more serious note:

This is probably a moot point as it regards the objective of this forum to carry firearms for personal protection, but I offer it as a matter of precision. Whether or not loaded uncased firearms are allowed in State parks is largely at the discretion of the DNR. The DNR can open State parks for the use of certain firearms for hunting certain game during hunting season. Of course that in itself allows the open carry of loaded weapons at that time.
Completely correct and they make that distinction in their rulemaking; I was looking more at the general occurrence outside the hunting season(s).

(and with a nod to your Dad, not a bad hunting tip either)

:lol:
 

Rick Finsta

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Nov 19, 2007
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Saukville, Wisconsin, USA
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WIG19 wrote:
BLUF: BJA you should check with your county. Understanding the pre-emption issue, I think what might confuse folks is that with 66.0409 saying a local statute can be "no more stringent" than state statute - and carry in state parks not permitted - what would be the prohibition that would keep a city or county from having an enforceable statute regarding their parks? No carry in a park would not be more stringent than the staterule which says...

NR 45.09(1)
(1) No person may take, catch, kill, hunt, trap or pursue any wild animal or bird, or discharge any firearm, or have in possession or under control any firearm or air gun as defined in s.939.22, unless it is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case...

:?
Simple: A "State Park" is a legally defined entity under statutes, and therefore a county or municipality adding other types of parks would be MORE STRINGENT. Any time you expand the scope of a law, it becomes "more stringent," and that is specifically prohibited by 66.0409 when dealing with firearms regulation. Now, I'll have to go check if "parks" are a generically defined term in the statutes; that might muddy it up a bit...
 

WIG19

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, Wisconsin, USA
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Rick Finsta wrote:
WIG19 wrote:
BLUF: BJA you should check with your county. Understanding the pre-emption issue, I think what might confuse folks is that with 66.0409 saying a local statute can be "no more stringent" than state statute - and carry in state parks not permitted - what would be the prohibition that would keep a city or county from having an enforceable statute regarding their parks? No carry in a park would not be more stringent than the staterule which says...

NR 45.09(1)
(1) No person may take, catch, kill, hunt, trap or pursue any wild animal or bird, or discharge any firearm, or have in possession or under control any firearm or air gun as defined in s.939.22, unless it is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case...

:?
Simple: A "State Park" is a legally defined entity under statutes, and therefore a county or municipality adding other types of parks would be MORE STRINGENT. Any time you expand the scope of a law, it becomes "more stringent," and that is specifically prohibited by 66.0409 when dealing with firearms regulation. Now, I'll have to go check if "parks" are a generically defined term in the statutes; that might muddy it up a bit...
I see where you're coming from. Going into counter-insurgency mode though (i.e., think like the adversary) I'd say that a park is a park is a park, and to not let the local entity have parks and manage them no more stringently than the state does theirs would not be supported under the law. But you've got a great question there.If you find a mud-filter I'd be glad to look through it.
 

Lammie

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, Wisconsin, USA
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This is a "muddy" area. State statutes recognize three distinct and separate park sytems, State parks (which also include Roadside parks), County parks and City parks.County and City parks defined as municipal parks. State and Roadside parks are administered by the State. County parks by a county planning comission and City parks by a City planning comission. Their reponsibilities and authorities are described in statute 167.10 Parks.

Only the portions of the "Parks" statutes that apply to State parks have any restriction in regards to carry of firearms. The only specific reference to firearms in regards to the municipal parks is contained in statute 167.30. That statute only addresses the discharge of firearms not the carry of them. That seems to be in fitting with 66.0409 which says that the only restrictions political subdivisions can place on firearms that are above the state restrictions is the discharge of firearms. The "muddiness" seems to come from the fact that there are three distinct park systems and the muddiness begs the answer to the question "Does the adoption of the State park firearm restrictions by County and City parks amount to a more strict application of state firearm statutes or does it amount to a same as restriction? I'm afraid only the courts can unravel that one.

167.30Use of firearms, etc., near park, etc. Any person who shall discharge or cause the discharge of any missile from any firearm, slung shot, bow and arrow or other weapon, within 40 rods of any public park, square or enclosure owned or controlled by any municipality within this state and resorted to for recreation or pleasure, when such park, square or enclosure is wholly situated without the limits of such municipality, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding 60 days or by fine of not more than $25 nor less than one dollar.

40 rods is 660 feet, 220 yards
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
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Madison, Wisconsin, USA
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In my opinion restrictions in city or county parks ARE more stringent than state statute because it limits the places you could take a firearm more than state statutes do. If a municipality wants an ordinance limiting firearms in state parks, fine.

I brought this issue up with the City of Madison age ago; my efforts documented somewhere on Opencarry.org. The matter was referred to the city attorney for response. He never responded, probably because he could come up with no legal basis for the city's park rule about "firearms are not allowed in [so-called] "conservation parks." " Maybe it is time to pester him again.
 

Lammie

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, Wisconsin, USA
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Shotgun:

Your point is well taken. Municipal park restrictions would indeed expand the locations of prohibition. Perhaps it is time to pressure the Madison city attorrney for his opinion.
 

Shotgun

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I should add that I believe there are some DNR rules that apply to specific counties which restrict firearms on state lands that are not state parks.
 

Shotgun

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Lammie wrote:
Shotgun:

Your point is well taken. Municipal park restrictions would indeed expand the locations of prohibition. Perhaps it is time to pressure the Madison city attorrney for his opinion.
I believe I will! What would prohibit a municipality from declaring (zoning) it's entire area a "park?" I've often said living in Madison is like living in a combination of park and shopping mall. LOL
 

BJA

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May 4, 2008
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SOuth Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Man this sucks, guess i will not open carry up there, thanks for your guys help but i can of course bring in my gun in a case unloaded right? just wanna be ready for any bears or wolves that come after the huge walleye and gills we catch up there lol





Ben
 

Virtus Honoris

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Jun 25, 2008
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, Wisconsin, USA
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I guess the State figures when we walk that unmarked line from a National and State forest into a State park we magically are automatically nowsecure and no longer need a firearm.

Same thing when walking past a school.

To say we can walk down the sidewalkopen carry but then have to carry a case and unload when we touch a blade ofgrass in astate park or are 999 feet from school property is silly.

It is simply an effective indirect harrasment of our ability to freely and legally exercise the right to bear arms.

We are more safe in a car? Where do they think freeking carjacks happen!!!?

Evertime I try andfigure out how the liberal gun control crowd thinksmy head starts hurting and I feel like there is a bowl of stupid sloshing around between my ears.
 

Shotgun

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Virtus Honoris wrote:
Evertime I try andfigure out how the liberal gun control crowd thinksmy head starts hurting and I feel like there is a bowl of stupid sloshing around between my ears.
There's a simple explanation: gun control laws are not a single well-planned coherent piece of legislation, but rather a patchwork of laws passed piecemeal. It's well known that gun control activists are clever enough to know that it would be difficult to ever pass a total prohibition on firearms on a grand scale, so they attack the soft easy targets first. "We must protect the children in our schools!" "Parks should be peaceful recreational areas!" "Officer safety during traffic stops!"

Well, it sounds good to a lot of people, so it is not so difficult to pass this sort of legislation. Whether such legislation is well thought out or makes good sense on every level, or doesn't conflict with reality or with other laws are not factors that they consider. There goal is to minimize gun rights, period. It's feel good legislation for them and they have the satisfaction of having frustrated law-abiding citizens along they way. But you hit it pretty much on the mark--- stupidity is often the most commonly overlooked explanation for things.
 

Motofixxer

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May 14, 2010
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Somewhere over the Rainbow
Shotgun, have you contacted the city attorney yet. I have been wondering about this issue. It would be nice to find out what the official opinion is on it. I have thought about contacting the Madison PD just to see what they say about it.
 

Cobra469

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Jan 28, 2010
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West Allis, WI, , USA
Rick Finsta wrote:


Then I dare you to walk in a city park while armedin Milwaukee County. It's a county ordanance and it is enforced! Give Sheriff Clark a call and ask him yourself.

If you do get the courage to do that, let me know. I'd love to watch you get arrested.

.... And all the typing in the world on your part isn't going to change that.
You are more than welcome to watch. I walk in the park all the time. Even take my dog to boot. Let them write me two tickets. (posted no dogs allowed) I walk my dog with my son most weekends at the park off 77th St just south of Lincoln. Have even waived to West Allis Police once. Of course this was shortly after my whole mailman incident so they knew who I was and I am sure they did their homework already.

Outside of that all I can say is that particular ordinance leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Regardless of what the Sheriff thinks it always boils down to a judge and/or jury.
 

anmut

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Jan 1, 2010
Messages
875
Location
Stevens Point WI, ,
Going on a camping/hiking trip in northern Wisconsin. Will stay at a state campground and hike on trails in park and state forest.Is open carry legal inWI state parks/campgrounds/forest ? Thanks for any info. (will .45 acp stop a black bear?)

You can kill a black bear with a 350fps arrow, a .45 will do just fine. Just remember to hit the bear. :)
 

BTC

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Sep 24, 2010
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Open Carry in Waukesha Cty Parks

Hey gents & ladies,
I am a Waukesha Cty resident. I wanted to take my dog to Minooka Park (cty park), and felt like openly carrying my Beretta .380. As I walked to my car, dog very excited, I paused, and considered what I was about to do. I'm sure many of you can identify...
You believe you are operating within your rights, but do you really want to put your ass on the line legally? Its a very expensive wager.

So I called the District Attorney, Mr. Brad Schimel. When I told the receptionist why I was calling (question about carrying a gun in a park :) ), she put me right through. He measured me up by asking "What, you think you're going to be robbed at Minooka Park?" Of course not. "Then you're trying to make a political statement?". No, sir...in fact that's what I'm looking to avoid. I just want to exercise my rights, and I am not interested in breaking the law, thats why I called.

He wouldn't give me any advice, but did cite a county statute (20-48), which is far more stringent than state law. When I asked if it was written prior to 1995 (preemption), he said "I believe this county law would be unenforceable, yes". But he would not take a stand that could be construed as offering me "prospective legal advice".

I respect him for taking my call and digging into the statutes to try and clarify for me. He was unable to offer me any clarity at all. He shared my (our) frustration with the inconsistent application of the seemingly simple law which protects our rights; and is frustrated that there is not clarity on the law. I share that frustration as well.

So I'm left with this decision: do I take off my holster, and go walk the dog? It is, after all, a beautiful Fall day. Or do I bring my Beretta, arm myself with the facts, and let the chips fall where they may?

This sucks...

Come here, Jackson, lets go to the dog park.
 
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