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Thread: Montesano passes gun ban ordinance for parks

  1. #1
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    First Seattle, now this.
    I don't believe in coincidences. We need to find out if this is being generated by CeaseFire or Mayors Against Gun Ownership or what...



    [b ]Council bans firearms in parks[/b]
    By Leif Nesheim - The Daily World
    Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:21 AM PDT




    Montesano is joining the ranks of cities banning firearms from their parks. The City Council has adopted a new parks ordinance describing activities prohibited in city parks. Among them is a ban on all firearms.

    The council approved the new law by a split 4-3 vote on Tuesday. Earlier this week, Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels announced a new policy banning firearms on all city property, including parks. Critics of Seattle’s policy said the move violates state law and the rights of legally authorized gun owners. Washington state law prohibits local governments from enacting gun laws that are stricter than state codes but does allow cities to ban guns from city-owned stadiums, convention centers and the workplace, where the city is the employer.

    “You guys are working really hard to take away my right to carry a gun,” said Councilman Albert Collins. He said the city shouldn’t take away the constitutional rights of people who have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. “If we have a permit to carry it, we should be OK.”

    Voting against the ban were Collins, newly appointed Chris Hutchings and Nick Swinhart. Councilmen Chris Thomas, Doug Streeter, Pat Herrington and Rich Klinger voted for the ordinance.

    Mike Bruner, city parks and recreation director, said the Parks and Recreation Committee considered the issue at length during the two years the new ordinance was crafted.

    In the end, the committee decided parks should have the same restrictions on weapons as Montesano’s schools, Bruner said.

    Montesano Police Chief Ray Sowers said it is difficult for officers to determine at a glance if a concealed weapon is carried legally with a permit or if the person has the weapon illegally. The city’s new law exempts police from the firearms ban.

    Montesano resident Steve Hepp, who has a state-issued concealed weapons permit, said he and others should be allowed to carry a weapon as allowed by state law. He also urged the council to adopt later park hours for people like he and his wife, who like to take late night strolls. The city’s parks are closed from 10 p.m. to 6:30 a.m.

    Hutchings said he wasn’t pleased with all the restrictions placed on pets in the parks.

    “We like to play with our dogs in the parks,” he said. Pets must be leashed and are prohibited from areas covered by turf, picnic areas, sport courts or inbounds play areas.

    Hutchings and Collins somewhat jokingly said they wouldn’t want their guns and dogs to run into each other.

  2. #2
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    Urgh. This is close to home. I'm going to send off an email to the Montesano Council.

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    Real close for me.

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    Don't these morons have an attorney to tell them that this is illegal and preempted? Again politicians are above the law, the elite, the ruling class. Didn't we fight a war over this crap back in the 1770s?

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    Sigh, I wish I could bill them for my time when I write letters to them after they illegally pass laws... Writing now, will send it this evening.

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    It would probably be good not only to write to those supporting the ban, but also to those opposing it, thanking them for following the law and constitution(s).
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Went to school with most of the asses listed in that article, and they were asses then!



    The biggest one is the po po chief, Ray Sowers. ****, my soph or junior year he was undercover as a student to bust high school kids for drugs and such......was an asshat then lol

    Grew up in Montesano and I am trying to remember the parks.......they got the one downtown that is like a block long.......been so long I don't remember if they have any more.........



    Asshats down there, all of em LOL



    ****dislcaimer....not everyone who lives done there are bad LOL*****


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    My email to the article's author
    Mr Neshem:
    In your recent article about the council's ban, the general writing indicates a state of affairs different than reality. First and foremost, the council has no legal way to enact and enforce a ban on firearms on any public property, per RCW 9.41.290: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290

    "Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. ... Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality."

    Moreover, there was indication in the article that a permit is required for the legal carry of a firearm. This, too, is incorrect, as pistols may be legally open-carried without a CPL, so long as the the carry does not warrant alarm. Warrant has a different meaning than cause, as shown in a recent state ruling in State of Washington v. Gregory Elijah Casad: http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/gunstuff/legal/State_v_Casad_(unpublished).pdf

    "While it is not unlawful for a person to merely possess a firearm in
    public
    , the statute at issue does not violate one’s right to bear arms because '[i]n the vast majority
    of situations, a person of common intelligence would be able to ascertain when the carrying of a
    particular weapon would reasonably warrant alarm in others
    .'"

    Finally, Bruner's comments on restrictions in parks mirroring those in schools makes it appear that Montesano has a law preventing carry in schools. In fact, this is a Federal law (18 U.S.C. §922(q) "Gun-Free School Zones Act"), and it does not prohibit carry of a concealed weapon by a permit holder:

    "(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
    firearm -
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
    so by the State
    in which the school zone is located or a
    political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
    political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
    such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
    political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
    under law to receive the license
    ;"

    While I understand the desire of the city council to appear to be taking a meaningful stand, it is not their place to violate the rights of their constituents, nor is it acceptable to violate both law and constitution of the state of Washington.

    Sincerely,
    -Tim Hermann
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    10

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    Tawnos wrote:
    My email to the article's author
    While I understand the desire of the city council to appear to be taking a meaningful stand, it is not their place to violate the rights of their constituents, nor is it acceptable to violate both law and constitution of the state of Washington.



    about the best way i've seen it ever written. you rock, and may i ask your permission to reuse that paragraph (with minor edits) myself.

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    Great letter!



    Just talked to my dad who lives down there and he is working on one as well........



    Grrrrrrrrrrrr

  12. #12
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    It seems to be an epidemic!

    I sure hope this bought of anti-gunbull-**** backfires this coming November

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    uncoolperson wrote:
    Tawnos wrote:
    My email to the article's author
    While I understand the desire of the city council to appear to be taking a meaningful stand, it is not their place to violate the rights of their constituents, nor is it acceptable to violate both law and constitution of the state of Washington.



    about the best way i've seen it ever written. you rock, and may i ask your permission to reuse that paragraph (with minor edits) myself.
    Go right ahead. It's why I put it here. Feel free to take any parts of whatever I write as an open letter and use them.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    I have noticed the signs in Seattle and Vancouver parks that prohibit firearms. So if I open carry in parks the police can arrest me? I'm moving to Montana....

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    Why all the worry about this BS? I intend to ignore all illegal signs just as I always have. Who gives a tiny sh*t about what some politicain has had placed on a fricken sign that doesn't carrythe weight of law. No different than the bar/restaurant owners who improperly place"no firearms" signs. I just don't get it I guess.

    Got better things to worry about....like Osama in '08!







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    tjschul wrote:
    Got better things to worry about....like Osama in '08!
    Roger that.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    tjschul wrote:
    Got better things to worry about....like Osama in '08!
    Roger that.
    'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.' - Barack Obama

  18. #18
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Pets must be leashed ----
    Perhaps it is time to Leash Politicians
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  19. #19
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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    tjschul wrote:
    Got better things to worry about....like Osama in '08!
    Roger that.
    'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.' - Barack Obama
    Did he seriously say that!!??

  20. #20
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    Agent 47 wrote:
    Did he seriously say that!!??
    Not according to Snopes.
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/change.asp

  21. #21
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    I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.

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    M1Gunr wrote:
    I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
    I could definately see Everett doing it. Hell he, the interim attorney, already quoted Cherry vs Seattle as case law for banning firearms in the libraries.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    A better way to go is to get the State Attorney General to issue a ruling saying all these type of laws are illegal and preempted.

  24. #24
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    M1Gunr wrote:
    I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
    Nahh let them enact it or try to enact it first. I've already decided what I will do if Oly tries this stunt. And that is ignore it and go to the city council OCing to speak out against it.

    But dont' start jumping the gun here....

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    joeroket wrote:
    M1Gunr wrote:
    I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
    I could definately see Everett doing it. Hell he, the interim attorney, already quoted Cherry vs Seattle as case law for banning firearms in the libraries.
    Actually it was Estes V. Vashon fire

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