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Montesano passes gun ban ordinance for parks

Bill Starks

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I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
 

joeroket

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M1Gunr wrote:
I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
I could definately see Everett doing it. Hell he, the interim attorney, already quoted Cherry vs Seattle as case law for banning firearms in the libraries.
 

sv_libertarian

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M1Gunr wrote:
I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
Nahh let them enact it or try to enact it first. I've already decided what I will do if Oly tries this stunt. And that is ignore it and go to the city council OCing to speak out against it.

But dont' start jumping the gun here....
 

Agent 47

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joeroket wrote:
M1Gunr wrote:
I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
I could definately see Everett doing it. Hell he, the interim attorney, already quoted Cherry vs Seattle as case law for banning firearms in the libraries.
Actually it was Estes V. Vashon fire
 

Trigger Dr

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M1Gunr wrote:
I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
Just a fantasy here, but can you imagine a class action suit featuring ALL the Washington OCDO members as plaintiff ?:cool::D:D:celebrate:celebrate
 

sv_libertarian

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Trigger Dr wrote:
M1Gunr wrote:
I wonder how long before Tacoma, Olympia, Spokane, Everett try to enact what Seattle & Montesano are working on. I'm thinking a premptive letter campaign to the mayor & city council would be in order.
Just a fantasy here, but can you imagine a class action suit featuring ALL the Washington OCDO members as plaintiff ?:cool::D:D:celebrate:celebrate
*Insert evil laugh here*

I LOVE IT.
 

Bobarino

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i see Tacoma no longer a parks ban in their municipal code. they did last time i checked a couple years ago. looks like the people here have a a positive effect! its still in the pierce county code:

14.08.060 Prohibited Activities.
It is unlawful for any person to:

(A-G deleted. irrelevant to the discussion here)

H. Possess, discharge, set off or cause to be discharged in or into any park, any firecracker,
torpedo, rocket, firework, explosive or other substance harmful to the life or safety of
persons or property. Legal fireworks as part of a permitted function which are licensed
and in compliance with State regulations may be discharged in a manner meeting all
safety requirements if authorized by the Director or designee and if handled by a
licensed professional;
I. Possess a firearm with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism, or discharge across,
in or into any park a firearm, air or gas weapon, or any device capable of injuring or
killing any person or animal or damaging or destroying any public or private property
;

i see the city of Puyallup still hasn't changed their Muni code to do away with the firearms ban.

9.20.050 Fireworks, firearms, and weapons. It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any fireworks, firecrackers, torpedos or explosives of any kind or to carry any firearms, air guns, bows and arrows, B-B guns, or use any slingshot in any park unless a written permit has been obtained from the parks director. (Ord. 2840 §2, 2005; Ord. 2105 § 2, 1986; Ord. 1733 § 4, 1978).

Lakewood still has restrictions on open carry in their parks:

08.76.530 - Firearms, Weapons
No person except duly authorized law enforcement personnel and/or persons licensed to carry a concealed weapon shall possess a firearm in a city park. No person shall possess a bow and arrow, crossbow, or air or gas weapon in a City park. No person shall discharge across, in, or into any park area a firearm, bow and arrow, crossbow, air or gas weapon, or any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private property provided that where the Department for good cause has authorized and approved a special recreational activity or a recreational program, upon finding that it is not inconsistent with City park use, this section shall not apply. (Ord. 420 ? 1 (part), 2006; Ord. 126 ? 1 (part), 1997.)
most of the cities that i've checked have a restriction on firearms in parks. its only when we fight to have them removed that do so.

Everett has a ban on carry on busses and such:

10.78.080 Carrying firearm on public conveyance. A.It is unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to carry, place on, or cause to be carried or placed on any public conveyance within the city limits any firearm unless the firearm shall be broken down or encased, and from which all ammunition shall be first removed, unless the person shall be a peace officer duly authorized to carry the weapon in the furtherance of his duty.
B.Any person violating any of the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. (Ord. 1145-85 § 132, 1985)

king county code:

7.12.630 Firearms, weapons. No person except duly authorized law enforcement personnel shall
possess a bow and arrow, crossbow, or air or gas weapon in a county park. No person shall discharge
across, in, or into any King County park area a firearm, bow and arrow, crossbow, air or gas weapon, or any
device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private
property.
Provided that:
Where the department for good cause has authorized in writing a special recreational activity upon
finding that it is not inconsistent with King County park use this section shall not apply. (Ord. 12003 § 17,
1995*: Ord. 8166 § 8, 1987: Ord. 6798 § 63, 1984).



Bobby
 

44Brent

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Let's assume for a moment that there is an organized campaign by bigots to pass illegal ordinances and "executive orders" throughout the state. What possible objectives could the bigots be trying to achieve?

1) Force civil rights organizations to waste funds on injunctions to block their actions. This costs us far more than it costs them. Good for them, and bad for us.

2) Force civil rights organizations to waste funds on lawsuits to seek damages on behalf of individuals who are wrongly detained, arrested, and charged with violating illegal ordinances and "executive ordinances". This costs both sides a ton of money, but will ultimately cost their side more. This is likely not to bother the other side, unless it results in their side's leaders being voted out of office, as the costs of defending lawsuits is carried by the taxpayers. This is bad for both sides.

3) Force the issue into the legislature in an attempt to repeal the statewide preemption law. This is bad for us and good for the other side. There are two potential beneficiaries: The Republican Party which could end up displacing the Democrats who control the legislative and executive branches in government, and the bigots (Washington Ceasefire) who stand to gain additional funding for their organization, as they can demonstrate a willingness to engage in firefights.

Knowing the objectives of the otherside would be helpful in forumlating an optimum strategy for our side. However, I don't know exactly what their objectives are.

I would be interested in hearing the viewpoints and analysis by some of the senior leaders in the gun rights movement, either statewide or national.
 

rbarrans

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Have any of these cities actually been able to enforce these bans on firearms in parks? It seems pretty obvious they are not in compliance with state law as in RCW 9.41.290. Has anyone actualy been arrested for violating one of these park bans?
 

Agent 47

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rbarrans wrote:
Have any of these cities actually been able to enforce these bans on firearms in parks? It seems pretty obvious they are not in compliance with state law as in RCW 9.41.290. Has anyone actualy been arrested for violating one of these park bans?
I have tried to be, but so far I haven't found a cop who will do it.
 

rbarrans

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Agent 47 wrote:
rbarrans wrote:
Have any of these cities actually been able to enforce these bans on firearms in parks? It seems pretty obvious they are not in compliance with state law as in RCW 9.41.290. Has anyone actualy been arrested for violating one of these park bans?
I have tried to be, but so far I haven't found a cop who will do it.
Probably because they know the bans are not legal and won't hold up in court. The bans are in place to create the impression that guns are not allowed and fool people who don't do their research and don't know their rights. If someone did get arrested for violating one of these bans it would surely get struck down in court and make some great case law for getting similar bans in other cities repealed. I can't afford to be the example for this so you go ahead and keep trying to get arrested Agent_47 ;) Way to take one for the team ;)
 

sv_libertarian

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The letter I sent to them. Thanks compmanio365 for reading the rough draft and your suggested changes. This went out to the mayor, the chief of police and to the city attorney.

Gentlemen,

I am writing you about the ordinance regarding the restriction of a lawfully carried firearm the City of Montesano recently passed into law.

First, I would request a copy of this new ordinance for my records and review.

Second, I am sure you are all very much aware that this ordinance is in conflict with current Washington State law and Article 1, Section 24 of the State Constitution. Please note that it is accepted that laws and ordinances at a state level outweigh and have a higher authority than an ordinance passed by a locality.

With that, I would remind you that RCW 9.41.290 preempts all firearms laws in this state, and reads in part "Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9,41.300, and are consistent with this chapter." Also, RCW 9.41.300 defines which places are illegal to carry a firearm, and also the limits of a city, county or municipality's power in regards to firearms laws.

I trust this preempted, invalid ordinance will not be enforced and will be stricken from your books.

Again, I would appreciate a copy of the ordinance in question, and hope that Montesano will continue to comply with state law in regards to the lawful possession of firearms.
 

phiche92

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Montesano Police Chief Ray Sowers said it is difficult for officers to determine at a glance if a concealed weapon is carried legally with a permit or if the person has the weapon illegally. The city’s new law exempts police from the firearms ban.


What kind of a statement is this? If they can see it it's not concealed! I had an officer glance at me the other day and he couldn't tell ifI had a CPL or notbecause he had no idea I had a gun, it was concealed!

Maybe each and every one of us should flood every local media outlet with E-Mails regarding local officials who have no regard for our constitutional rights. The factis these people are breaking the law and are not being held accountable for it.

E-Mails to our legislators, the be Gov and the AG. This needs to be stopped before it spreads further and the state decide's well maybe this is good idea.
:banghead:
 

Bobarino

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[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]well, technically,[/font][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] they're not breaking the law by writing these odinances. they can write any ordinance they want. it's only if they try to enforce the ordinance (ie arrest someone for carrying in a park) that they are breaking the law. even then, who is going to prosecute them? is an officer going to arrest another officer for depriving you of civil rights? is the city prosecutor going to bring up charges in a case like this? no. he'll just drop the charges against you but chances of him/her prosecuting a cop are slim to none. this is where the problem lies in my opinion too. just as you state, law enforcement officers and elected officials, prosecutors etc. you'd be hard pressed to find one that is willing to prosecute himself or arrest himself. its partially the citizens' fault too for not educating themselves about their rights and the limit to police powers. people are generally under the impression that if it's said or done by a LEO, it must me right. this is the wonderful crux of this site and the open carry movement. open carry is but one law/right that is abused my police all the time. we'll get 'em though. one at a time.

Bobby
[/font]
 

PoppaGary

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Bobarino wrote:
[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]well, technically,[/font][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] they're not breaking the law by writing these odinances. they can write any ordinance they want. Bobby
[/font]

Actually Bobby, I would have to disagree with you on this.

The State laws say, in part: Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

In this case "enact" means: To pass a law

The mere fact that they spent OUR monies and time to enactthis law, regardless of whether they even try to enforce it,is against the State Law.

But yes, trying to find someone to do anything about it is the hard part.

I am SO tired of these people in thegovernment trying to push their own agendas andnot following, not only,the letter of law, but also the spirit of the law. (I am also tired of people, especially our so-called "leaders", equating something that is legal with moral and just, but that is another rant for another time, and probably place, sorry.)

Gary
 

Right Wing Wacko

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
Does anybody know if citizen arrests are legal in this state?


According to the DOL at http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/securityguards/citizenarrest1.pdf



Under Washington law, a private person can conduct a citizen’s arrest for a misdemeanor if the misdemeanor: (1) was committed in the citizen’s presence and (2) constituted a breach of the peace. State v. Gonzales, 24 Wn. App. 437, 439, 604 P.2d 168 (1979); Guijosa v. Wal-Mart Stores, 101 Wn. App. 777, 791, 6 P.3d 583 (2000).

A person can also conduct a citizen’s arrest for felonies.
[font="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"]See [/font]State v. Malone, 106 Wn.2d 607, 724 P.2d 364 at FN1 (1986) [font="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"]citing [/font]State v. Miller, 103 Wn.2d 792, 698 P.2d 554 (1985) and State v. Gonzales, 24 Wn. App. 437, 604 P.2d 168 (1979).



RCW 10.04.020 provides for a citizen’s arrest at the direction of a district court judge, as follows: Arrest -- Offense committed in view of district judge.

When any offense is committed in view of any district judge, the judge may, by verbal direction to any deputy, or if no deputy is present, to any citizen, cause such deputy or citizen to arrest such offender, and keep such offender in custody for the space of one hour, unless such offender shall sooner be taken from such custody by virtue of a warrant issued on complaint on oath. But such person so arrested, shall not be confined in jail, nor put upon any trial, until arrested by virtue of such warrant.

While Washington has no statute concerning citizen’s arrests generally, RCW 9A.04.060 provides that the common law is applicable where not repugnant to the provisions of the state constitution or statutes. Gonzales, 24 Wn. App. at 439; State v. Miller, 103 Wn.2d 792, 795, 698 P.2d 554 (1985).


[align=left]Application of the common law doctrine of citizen’s arrest is demonstrated in the synopsis of the case below: [/align]
Instruction on lawful arrest in prosecution for third degree assault, arising from defendant's resistance to apprehension by store personnel, did not improperly state the law; although language was taken from statute which sets forth defense available to store personnel who have detained a suspected shoplifter, statutory language was consistent with common-law right of
[font="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"]citizen arrest [/font]which permits detention of a suspected shoplifter on reasonable grounds. State v. Jones (1992) 63 Wash.App. 703, 821 P.2d 543, review denied 118 Wash.2d 1028, 828 P.2d 563. Assault And Battery 96(3); Criminal Law 808.5


 

Dave_pro2a

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Dave Workman wrote:
First Seattle, now this.
I don't believe in coincidences. We need to find out if this is being generated by CeaseFire or Mayors Against Gun Ownership or what...

Remember that anti-gun convention in Seattle... the ones no pro-gun person was allowed to attend. Paid for by city funds.



::puke::
 
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