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Thread: Stopped by WVCPD's Finest at Wal-Mart

  1. #1
    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    Today at 1400 I was stopped by two uniformed police officers who told me they were called to the Wal-Mart at 6200 South and 5600 West. On the 13th of June 2008 I was stopped by West Valley City Police Department as I was getting ready to get into my vechicle. I was Dis-Armed firearm taken to his vechicle. Asked for my permit and Utah ID which I complied. I was lectured as why I could not carry my firearm without causing a call to their dispatch for Man With a gun. The store Manger of this store was wondering if this was legal. All the loss pervention officers were involved I used to work for Loss pervention for walmart. I was told by An officer in a ford suv police vechicle I could lose my permit if I kept this up. I was never tresspassed because I spend money their and she reconised this also I was with my wife and four kids all young who did not understand whatg was happening. I was released without citation while being abmonished for what I did and sent on my way the officer released me putting my firearm in the trunk of my car unloaded. Is this just this Wal-Mart or all of them.



    Case Number 08-I025643 WVCPD Dispatch 840-4000

    Call me if you would like any more Info 801-455-7227 My name is Zach

    Any Ideas does anyone knw someone who would like to publish this story or give me more info on who to contact

    Sincerly Zach A CFP Holder of 7 Years Almost


    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    Aparantly this has been an ongoing problem with WVCPD. If you refer to this thread http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/11739.htmlseveral forum members will be attending the city council meeting to ask that this type of harassment stop. It might be a good idea for you to plan on attending if you can.

    You don't come right out and say it in the post so I'll ask, where you carrying open or were you carrying concealed and someone just saw it by accident? It doesn't make a difference because either way you were within the law I'm just curious if the are just keeping to OC'ers or if they've started harassing concealed carriers as well.

    There are a lot of great forum members who can help you out with more information.

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    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    I was open carrying a glock 21 SF With a Holster Handcuffs and mag case with Hiatt Handcuffs all were 13 Round Mags in the gun and extra mag and Handcuff Holder
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing your story...

    My suggestion is to write down every last detail you can remember from the incident, including the events leading up to the police encounter (How long you were in the store, who you talked to, etc) Have you wife do the same, because she will remember details you wont.

    You need to come to the WVC council meeting on Tuesday that murph referenced, and share your experience with the Mayor... Keep it under 5 minutes, and if you need help putting together some thoughts on what to say, ScottyT might be able to help.

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    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    I will try to make it that day I have to work at the U that night
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    Information Update



    At approximate 1400 myself and my wife along with my four children entered the Wal-Mart located at 5600 West And 6200 South. I purchased several items and went to the checkout stand. After exiting the store and putting my groceries in the vehicle I was stopped by a West Valley Police Officer who asked to speak with me about a Man with a gun call. I was disarmed by the officer and took my firearm to his vehicle. The officer returned to me asking me for my ID and CFP permit. I was told to wait while he checked me for warrants. While waiting an officer in a White Marked Ford SUV spoke with me about the incident that had occurred. I was told that I could lose my CFP for open carrying in public if I kept this up. I was told also that I lacked common sense. Also in front of the In Store Loss prevention I was told that I was being careless and stupid by doing this. I was held at the scene for several minutes while being questioned by WVCPD. I am a frequent shopper at this Wal-Mart and told I was okay to shop there by store employs that they were just nervous. Upon speaking to Brad Peterson the store manager of that store he stated that he was not well versed on the law. But will call the WVCPD every time he see’s someone walking around wall-mart with a holstered firearm he will always call the police. He is also a concealed firearm holder but not very well versed in the law as he stated. His contact number is 801-840-1698. Don Schultz who is the District store manager was not available to make any comments but his number is 801-840-5064. I welcome anyone who would like to call him or the manager and voice their opinion on this matter should the more the better. I believe this is more of A Wal-Mart paranoia then a WVCPD Issue.
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    This is fukn' bull ****.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Wal-mart's policy is to obey local laws. so the manager should be punished for harrassing customers.

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    gunsfreak4791 wrote:
    I believe this is more of A Wal-Mart paranoia then a WVCPD Issue.
    Nah.

    Both are problems, but the cops were the biggest problem.

    You were illegally detained, your gun was illegally seized and you were lied to and intimidated to stop you from open carrying, which is illegal abuse of authority under color of law.

    Hopefully the council meeting will get WVCPD to stop their crap. If not, then maybe formal complaints will do it. If that doesn't... intervention by the AG or even a lawsuit may be required to stop them.

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    Sent a Email To Charles Hardy ( Utahbagpiper), Mitch Vilos, Clark Aposhian, Rep Curtis Oda and Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.

    BTW...the Officer that told you that you would loose your CFP, was his name Officer Smith ????

    TJ

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    Should we plan a visit to this Walmart after the tuesday night meeting? Show up in force so the cops wont try and bully us one at a time?

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    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    I would be happy to show up their again after the meeting I am going to try to make it to the meeting on Tuesday then to wal-mart would be great
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    That really does suck but don't give up OCing. It is your right and the cops lied to you. You won't lose you permit and even if you did you won't have your RIGHT to carry a firearm open in Utah just unloaded. WVCPD is really starting to upset me. I haven't had any problems like this in Orem yet and hope it stays that way. I'm planning on a follow-up letter to the nine police agencies (WVCPD included) in a few weeks since I haven't gotten any reply on them yet.

    Keep it up!!!
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
    Lone Eagle Observer (http://www.charlesahall.us)
    Facebook Page || http://twitter.com/CharlesAHall

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    gunsfreak4791 wrote:
    Today at 1400 I was stopped by two uniformed police officers who told me they were called to the Wal-Mart at 6200 South and 5600 West. On the 13th of June 2008 I was stopped by West Valley City Police Department as I was getting ready to get into my vechicle. I was Dis-Armed firearm taken to his vechicle. Asked for my permit and Utah ID which I complied. I was lectured as why I could not carry my firearm without causing a call to their dispatch for Man With a gun. The store Manger of this store was wondering if this was legal. All the loss pervention officers were involved I used to work for Loss pervention for walmart. I was told by An officer in a ford suv police vechicle I could lose my permit if I kept this up. I was never tresspassed because I spend money their and she reconised this also I was with my wife and four kids all young who did not understand whatg was happening. I was released without citation while being abmonished for what I did and sent on my way the officer released me putting my firearm in the trunk of my car unloaded. Is this just this Wal-Mart or all of them.



    Case Number 08-I025643 WVCPD Dispatch 840-4000

    Call me if you would like any more Info 801-455-7227 My name is Zach

    Any Ideas does anyone knw someone who would like to publish this story or give me more info on who to contact

    Sincerly Zach A CFP Holder of 7 Years Almost

    Don't worry about it. You will NOT "loose" your permit due to the fact that you are OCing. WHY? Due to the fact that BOTH BCI AND the AG Mark Shurtleff RECOGNIZES that you CAN OC both WITH and WITHOUT a CFP.

    WVC PD are just lying to and are trying to INTIMIDATE you NOT to OC. They want to be the ones that are SPECIAL enough to OC only.

    I have addressed this concern ( shared your experience ) to the proper channels.

    TJ

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    Bflamante wrote:
    Should we plan a visit to this Walmart after the tuesday night meeting?* Show up in force so the cops wont try and bully us one at a time?
    This may not be the best idea. Let's go through the channel of talking to the Mayor, and city council on Tuesday. I've read through the meeting notes of some of the most recent meetings they have had, and the Chief of Police is present at most of them, so we may hit two birds with 1 stone.

    The fact that someone at walmart called the police is not a reason for us to show up with large numbers baiting them into something... WVC will be well aware that we are in the city open carrying 5 seconds into the council meeting on Tuesday, and if they choose to react, then so be it... (bring tape and video recorders if you have them)

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Will try to make it. I don't know if I have the gas..

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    Mitch responded back to my Email and he is working on Great angle to get some back-up and support.

    TJ

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    I doubt that Wal-Mart is going to bend on this. In fact, they're gong to cover their own asses. To them, it's not going to look good if they allow people to open carry or even carry concealed in their stores. First, they'll take away open carry and then the concealed carry will go to. I can see them installing metal detectors at the entrances.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet, but Wal-mart's corporate policy regarding customers and firearms is to follow local laws.

    That means if it is legal to carry where you live, then Wal-mart employees are not supposed to bother you.

    Most employees do not know the policy, therefore must be educated.

    If a Wal-mart employee bothers you, then get the number to the regional manager, and take it up with that person.

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    calmp9 wrote:
    I doubt that Wal-Mart is going to bend on this. In fact, they're gong to cover their own asses. To them, it's not going to look good if they allow people to open carry or even carry concealed in their stores. First, they'll take away open carry and then the concealed carry will go to. I can see them installing metal detectors at the entrances.
    MAYBE it's justified at the airport or courthouse, but to go shopping??? I don't know many people who will stand in line, place their keys, cell phones, belts, jewelry, etc in a little dish to be scanned. Women will allow you to search their purses? Workers will take off their steel toed boots? Customers will accept being patted down? What if you're returning something that has metal in it? If someone penetrates the checkpoint, will they evacuate the store to rescan everyone? They'll fund and staff multiple trained security personnel 24 hrs a day? If the machine stops working, do you queue shoppers in the parking lot pending repairs/replacement? You're dreaming!

    Oh, and if hell froze over and this actually became a reality, what do you do with any guns you find? They're not illegal and you can't confiscate them. Just send the guy right back out the front door?

    Or better yet, what happens when, despite all this added "protection", they manage to miss one and a bad guy shoots up the place. Wouldn't they be liable?

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    calmp9 wrote:
    I doubt that Wal-Mart is going to bend on this. In fact, they're gong to cover their own asses. To them, it's not going to look good if they allow people to open carry or even carry concealed in their stores. First, they'll take away open carry and then the concealed carry will go to. I can see them installing metal detectors at the entrances.
    Metal detectors at Wal-mart.

    They'd have to be crazy. The cost would be insane. Not for the metal detectors, but for the employees to work the metal detectors. Rather than one "greeter" they'd need four or five guards, and it would really annoy the customers. Especially during heavy times of the day, when you'd end up with airport security-like lines to get in. Bad, bad business.

  22. #22
    Regular Member colormered's Avatar
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    swillden wrote:
    calmp9 wrote:
    I doubt that Wal-Mart is going to bend on this. In fact, they're gong to cover their own asses. To them, it's not going to look good if they allow people to open carry or even carry concealed in their stores. First, they'll take away open carry and then the concealed carry will go to. I can see them installing metal detectors at the entrances.
    Metal detectors at Wal-mart.

    They'd have to be crazy. The cost would be insane. Not for the metal detectors, but for the employees to work the metal detectors. Rather than one "greeter" they'd need four or five guards, and it would really annoy the customers. Especially during heavy times of the day, when you'd end up with airport security-like lines to get in. Bad, bad business.
    No, they'd just build their stores INSIDE the secure areas of the airports, and let us foot the bill for THEIR added security...

    And as far as not being able to return certain merchandise, "You'll have to take that up with airport security. It's out of our hands....."

  23. #23
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    Ah yes, American capitalism.

    Anyone happen to see the story about the failure of the "War on Drugs"? The financial (and law enforcement) drain on this country has failed to produce appreciable results. The proposed solution? Stop fighting drugs at a high level and instead use the money to financially incent private industry to frequently drug-test every employee.

    What happens if the same philosophy spreads to the "War on Dangerous Weapons (guns)"? No need to try to pass restrictive gun laws in a country of 100,000,000 gun owners, nor any reason to deal with the "extremists" unhappy with the government ignoring the constitution, and of course no need to try to get a constitutional amendment to repeal the 2nd amendment. Instead, just give money to any company which prohibits employees from owning firearms...anyone work for a company that doesn't like tax incentives?

    How many of us work for a living? Better watch out!

    The 2nd amendment allows you to keep and bear arms (I think). If the government can't ignore the constitution because there are too many extremists who believe the constitution still means something, why not just incent private companies to do so? After all, private property owners are free to impose whatever restrictions they so desire....don't like - find another job.

    My point? The government didn't say you couldn't have a gun! No problems there. Not there problem....

  24. #24
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Ridiculism. My word.

    Just because a company says you can't own firearms, doesn't mean they have any weight. Here in Utah, they can fire you fo no reason whatsoever, but just don't let them know you own guns.

    I can see this happening though. Bad stuff.

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    Just a update on this situation. I spoke with Don Schultz The district Manger over the West Valley City Wal-Marts. He has reaffirmed Wal-Marts stand on open carry that it is not allowed he stated he ran it through Wal-Marts Legal Department before contacting me. He also stated he did not have to post a sign saying this he also refused to put this in Writing. He is also forwarding this to The district VP for his consideration. I also am in contact with the regional Managers to get a final answer as well as Public Affairs. I am also waiting till I get a answer before appealing this to the board of directors. I hope that this issue will turn around in our favor. I had a good conversation with Don Schultz and hope this relationship will move forward in the right direction. I will keep you posted on the progress. I would also like to get your input if anyone has contact info for rolando The district VP please let me know E-mails or phone contact also anyone in the regional office or a good contact info for bentonville Ark. I want this to be positive and nothing negitive.
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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