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Thread: open carry at metropark? stony creek/metro beach.

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    well i WAS planning on OC'ing at Stony within the week. but i just found all this on their website. this portion of it however tells me i would be totally legal in doing so. it reads..........shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law. since OC is legal in Mich i SHOULD be good to go i think. i would like to hear all thoughts.

    taken from their list of rules and regulations on their webiste:

    5. FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, without written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law, including transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to a permitted hunting area.

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    warlockmatized wrote:
    well i WAS planning on OC'ing at Stony within the week. but i just found all this on their website. this portion of it however tells me i would be totally legal in doing so. it reads..........shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law. since OC is legal in Mich i SHOULD be good to go i think. i would like to hear all thoughts.

    taken from their list of rules and regulations on their webiste:

    5. FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, without written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law, including transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to a permitted hunting area.
    You should be okay. As you know local ordinances are illegal and both open and concealed (with a CPL) carry are allowed.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    well i WAS planning on OC'ing at Stony within the week. but i just found all this on their website. this portion of it however tells me i would be totally legal in doing so. it reads..........shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law. since OC is legal in Mich i SHOULD be good to go i think. i would like to hear all thoughts.

    taken from their list of rules and regulations on their webiste:

    5. FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, without written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law, including transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to a permitted hunting area.
    You should be okay. As you know local ordinances are illegal and both open and concealed (with a CPL) carry are allowed.
    i kinda thought so, just wanted another opinion. to bad stony has a $4 entrance fee or i'd say lets do another meeting there soon. i imagine not everyone wants/can pay.

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    warlockmatized wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    well i WAS planning on OC'ing at Stony within the week. but i just found all this on their website. this portion of it however tells me i would be totally legal in doing so. it reads..........shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law. since OC is legal in Mich i SHOULD be good to go i think. i would like to hear all thoughts.

    taken from their list of rules and regulations on their webiste:

    5. FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, without written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law, including transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to a permitted hunting area.
    You should be okay. As you know local ordinances are illegal and both open and concealed (with a CPL) carry are allowed.
    i kinda thought so, just wanted another opinion. to bad stony has a $4 entrance fee or i'd say lets do another meeting there soon. i imagine not everyone wants/can pay.
    Warlock, just for future purposes, do you have the link for Stony info?

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    well i WAS planning on OC'ing at Stony within the week. but i just found all this on their website. this portion of it however tells me i would be totally legal in doing so. it reads..........shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law. since OC is legal in Mich i SHOULD be good to go i think. i would like to hear all thoughts.

    taken from their list of rules and regulations on their webiste:

    5. FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, without written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law, including transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to a permitted hunting area.
    You should be okay. As you know local ordinances are illegal and both open and concealed (with a CPL) carry are allowed.
    i kinda thought so, just wanted another opinion. to bad stony has a $4 entrance fee or i'd say lets do another meeting there soon. i imagine not everyone wants/can pay.
    Warlock, just for future purposes, do you have the link for Stony info?
    here you go...main page http://www.metroparks.com/parks/pk_stony_creek.php rules/regs page http://www.metroparks.com/global/rules_regs.php the part pertaining to firearms is #5

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    warlockmatized wrote:
    SNIP
    here you go...main page http://www.metroparks.com/parks/pk_stony_creek.php rules/regs page http://www.metroparks.com/global/rules_regs.php the part pertaining to firearms is #5
    Thanks Warlock. Hopefully, we can arrange an OCget together down there in the near future.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    SNIP
    here you go...main page http://www.metroparks.com/parks/pk_stony_creek.php rules/regs page http://www.metroparks.com/global/rules_regs.php the part pertaining to firearms is #5
    Thanks Warlock. Hopefully, we can arrange an OCget together down there in the near future.
    that would be great! as i have stated before it is time for Macomb County to wake up and smell the coffee in regards to open carry. i have SEVERAL friends that are also handgun owners. one of them is legal dealer/CPL instructor, and the other is even a Macomb County sherrif ALL of them have argued over and over with me AGAINST open carry. would love for them to come out and see what DOESN'T happen, with regard to the law and openly carrying.

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    warlockmatized wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    warlockmatized wrote:
    SNIP
    here you go...main page http://www.metroparks.com/parks/pk_stony_creek.php rules/regs page http://www.metroparks.com/global/rules_regs.php the part pertaining to firearms is #5
    Thanks Warlock. Hopefully, we can arrange an OCget together down there in the near future.
    that would be great! as i have stated before it is time for Macomb County to wake up and smell the coffee in regards to open carry. i have SEVERAL friends that are also handgun owners. one of them is legal dealer/CPL instructor, and the other is even a Macomb County sherrif ALL of them have argued over and over with me AGAINST open carry. would love for them to come out and see what DOESN'T happen, with regard to the law and openly carrying.
    Early on,a member here in the Michigan forum mentioned that if we can get enough members to participate in OC get togethers, we could split into 2 or 3 groups. With the ever increasing costs to commute and members being spread across Michigan, I think this would be a perfect opportunity to increase the number of events throughout the year.

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    You guys establish any more info on OC or CC at Stoney? Any issues while carrying there?

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    No One Here but SW and Me wrote:
    You guys establish any more info on OC or CC at Stoney? Any issues while carrying there?
    Could you please edit your profile to show your location? I know your new here, it's just an unwritten rule we have so that the Michigan section gets credit for it's membership, and it does help knowing a persons local.

    Also,

    I never heard of Metropark, is it private or public?

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    Most "Metroparks" are run by the county they are in.

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    No One Here but SW and Me wrote:
    You guys establish any more info on OC or CC at Stoney? Any issues while carrying there?
    Hi and welcome .

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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Most "Metroparks" are run by the county they are in.







    Huron Clinton Metroparks Are A quasi public authority land owners i Wayne .Oakland ,Macomb Livingston and washtenaw county pay a tax . Appears as HCMP on tax bill run tighter ship than state or county parks have full police powers in ether park rangers or public safety nice friendly but a pay to use park home office Brighton mi .

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    There is a AG opinion on metro parks. Since they are public property then OC or CC with a CPL is allowed. Preemtion applies.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    taxwhat wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Most "Metroparks" are run by the county they are in.

    Huron Clinton Metroparks Are A quasi public authority land owners i Wayne .Oakland ,Macomb Livingston and washtenaw county pay a tax . Appears as HCMP on tax bill run tighter ship than state or county parks have full police powers in ether park rangers or public safety nice friendly but a pay to use park home office Brighton mi .
    Wow, didn't know that. I always thought they were run by the county authority.
    Big Gay Al
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    Venator wrote:
    There is a AG opinion on metro parks. Since they are public property then OC or CC with a CPL is allowed. Preemtion applies.
    Now I get it. I now think I seem to remember you and Jim Simmons having a discussion about that somewhere. At least, I remember it comming up, just didn't think it pertained to me.

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    Here is the AG opinionI was thinking of. If CC is allowed so is OC.

    A municipal outdoor recreation park does not, by itself, constitute an "entertainment facility" within the meaning of section 5o(1)(f) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, and thus is not a gun-free zone as established by that statute.


    Opinion No. 7120

    December 4, 2002


    Honorable Mike Kowall
    State Representative
    The Capitol
    Lansing, Michigan 48913


    You have asked whether a municipal outdoor recreation park, by itself, constitutes an "entertainment facility" within the meaning of section 5o(1)(f) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act that creates gun-free zones.

    We understand that by the use of the term "outdoor recreation park" you mean a natural area of land and water, consisting of lawns, trees, gardens, picnic tables, baseball diamonds, tennis courts, ponds, lakes, or rivers.

    The Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 et seq, regulates the possession and carrying of concealed pistols. The Act prohibits persons from carrying a concealed pistol unless they have been licensed in accordance with the provisions of that Act. Amendatory 2000 PA 381 made significant changes to the Act. Section 5b(7) sets forth specific qualifications a person must possess in order to receive a license to carry a concealed pistol and further provides that a county concealed weapon licensing board "shall issue a license" to an applicant who meets those requirements. The Act also provides that a person who is issued a license under the Act may carry a concealed pistol "anywhere in this state" except in certain designated classes of locations listed in section 5o of the Act. Section 5c(2). Those excepted locations, commonly referred to as "gun free zones," include the following:




    (f) An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
    The statutory term "entertainment facility" is not defined by the Legislature. The question therefore arises whether a municipal outdoor park, as described in your request, constitutes an entertainment facility for purposes of the gun-free zones created by section 5o(1)(f) of the Act. Words not defined by the Legislature are to be given their generally understood meaning consistent with the intent of the Legislature. Royal Globe Ins Co v Frankenmuth Mutual Ins Co, 419 Mich 565, 573; 357 NW2d 652 (1984). Courts will consult dictionaries to ascertain the meaning of undefined statutory terms unless the legislative intent may be discerned from the statute itself. People v Stone, 463 Mich 558, 563; 621 NW2d 702 (2001). The term "entertainment" is defined as an act to divert, amuse or to cause someone's time to pass agreeably, such as a concert. Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged (1964). The term "facility" is defined as something built or constructed to perform some particular function. Id.

    A reading of all the words contained in section 5o(1)(f) of the Act supports the conclusion that the Legislature intended that the term "entertainment facility" constitute a structure or building that has a known seating capacity of 2,500 or more persons, or that has signs above each public entrance stating that the facility has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more persons. Since the Legislature has not required that an entertainment facility be totally self-enclosed, such a facility could consist of a bandshell, amphitheater, or similar structure, provided it has the required, known seating capacity noted above or has appropriate signage above each public entrance indicating a seating capacity of 2,500 or more. This reading of section 5o(1)(f) is supported by the legislative history of 2000 HB 4530, enacted as 2000 PA 231. Both House Legislative Analyses, HB 4530, June 8, 1999, and January 4, 2001, state that HB 4530 would "[p]rohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed weapon in certain public places, such as a school, theater, sports arena, library, or hospital." There is no mention in either bill analysis that an outdoor recreation park, by itself, would constitute a gun-free zone. It is appropriate to rely on the legislative history because of the ambiguity in the statutory language. Luttrell v Dep't of Corr, 421 Mich 93, 103; 365 NW2d 74 (1985).

    While the Legislature could certainly have included municipal and other outdoor recreation parks within the Act's list of gun-free zones, it chose not to do so. An entertainment facility having a seating capacity of 2,500 or more persons clearly refers to a building or other structure. Accordingly, if an outdoor recreation park includes a band shell, amphitheater, or similar structure that has the required seating capacity, that portion of the park would constitute a gun-free zone under section 5o(f) of the Act.

    Finally, section 5o of the Act is a penal statute that must be strictly construed unless the Legislature indicates otherwise. MCL 750.2; People v Gilbert, 414 Mich 191, 211; 324 NW2d 834 (1982). There is nothing in the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act or in its legislative history to suggest that this statute be construed in a manner different from the plain language adopted by the Legislature.

    It is my opinion, therefore, that a municipal outdoor recreation park does not, by itself, constitute an "entertainment facility" within the meaning of section 5o(1)(f) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, and thus is not a gun-free zone as established by that statute.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    There is a AG opinion on metro parks. Since they are public property then OC or CC with a CPL is allowed. Preemtion applies.
    So is that: OC is allowed and CC with CPL is allowed, or OC and CC with a permit is allowed? Just wanting to clear up the semantics of your sentence structure. As written, it implies that they are both allowed with CPL only. I am not being critical, just want to make it as clear as possible. Thanks.

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    jershell99 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    There is a AG opinion on metro parks. Since they are public property then OC or CC with a CPL is allowed. Preemtion applies.
    So is that: OC is allowed and CC with CPL is allowed, or OC and CC with a permit is allowed? Just wanting to clear up the semantics of your sentence structure. As written, it implies that they are both allowed with CPL only. I am not being critical, just want to make it as clear as possible. Thanks.
    I guess I just get thrown by the term "Metro"park. What I relate to is John Ball Park. It sounds like the AG opinion is stating that parks that are owned by the municipality, are under state law. What I don't understand is what makes a Metro park, metro, and, "what does "metro" mean"?

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    jershell99 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    There is a AG opinion on metro parks. Since they are public property then OC or CC with a CPL is allowed. Preemtion applies.
    So is that: OC is allowed and CC with CPL is allowed, or OC and CC with a permit is allowed? Just wanting to clear up the semantics of your sentence structure. As written, it implies that they are both allowed with CPL only. I am not being critical, just want to make it as clear as possible. Thanks.
    Since preemption exists and a park is not a firearm free zone, then Open carry is allowed. Concealed carry is allowed with a CPL. Is that better? I tend to take short cuts on forums. Sorry. I shouldn't have to specify on the open carry part since a CPL holder can CC or OC at their discretion.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    jershell99 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    There is a AG opinion on metro parks. Since they are public property then OC or CC with a CPL is allowed. Preemtion applies.
    So is that: OC is allowed and CC with CPL is allowed, or OC and CC with a permit is allowed? Just wanting to clear up the semantics of your sentence structure. As written, it implies that they are both allowed with CPL only. I am not being critical, just want to make it as clear as possible. Thanks.
    Since preemption exists and a park is not a firearm free zone, then Open carry is allowed. Concealed carry is allowed with a CPL. Is that better? I tend to take short cuts on forums. Sorry. I shouldn't have to specify on the open carry part since a CPL holder can CC or OC at their discretion.
    Thanks for the clarification. The only reason I ask is that I regularly frequent Metro Beach and there is a large "NO FIREARMS" sign right by the gate.
    Should we pursue getting these signs removed as they are a violation of state law?

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    jershell99 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    jershell99 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    There is a AG opinion on metro parks. Since they are public property then OC or CC with a CPL is allowed. Preemption applies.
    So is that: OC is allowed and CC with CPL is allowed, or OC and CC with a permit is allowed? Just wanting to clear up the semantics of your sentence structure. As written, it implies that they are both allowed with CPL only. I am not being critical, just want to make it as clear as possible. Thanks.
    Since preemption exists and a park is not a firearm free zone, then Open carry is allowed. Concealed carry is allowed with a CPL. Is that better? I tend to take short cuts on forums. Sorry. I shouldn't have to specify on the open carry part since a CPL holder can CC or OC at their discretion.
    Thanks for the clarification. The only reason I ask is that I regularly frequent Metro Beach and there is a large "NO FIREARMS" sign right by the gate.
    Should we pursue getting these signs removed as they are a violation of state law?
    Preemption covers both OC and CC. Sure, write a letter and ask them to remove them and be sure to include the preemption law. If you need help ask.

    The signs appear to be illegal and should be removed.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    jershell99 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    There is a AG opinion on metro parks. Since they are public property then OC or CC with a CPL is allowed. Preemtion applies.
    So is that: OC is allowed and CC with CPL is allowed, or OC and CC with a permit is allowed? Just wanting to clear up the semantics of your sentence structure. As written, it implies that they are both allowed with CPL only. I am not being critical, just want to make it as clear as possible. Thanks.
    Since preemption exists and a park is not a firearm free zone, then Open carry is allowed. Concealed carry is allowed with a CPL. Is that better? I tend to take short cuts on forums. Sorry. I shouldn't have to specify on the open carry part since a CPL holder can CC or OC at their discretion.
    The Detroit Zoo tried same thing > Last I heard OK to CC or OC .

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    This all sound good CC is allowed based on the wording, but who is best to call on this to absolutely confirm. I bet you call the Stoney Creek Metro office and of course the clerk says no guns.

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    No One Here but SW and Me wrote:
    This all sound good CC is allowed based on the wording, but who is best to call on this to absolutely confirm. I bet you call the Stony Creek Metro office and of course the clerk says no guns.
    Wrong ? How much you wish to lose ? Hang with some PSO [rangers] .Sorry Hi and Wecome .

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