Please Don't Open Carry in California

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A simple search of California history and the Black Panthers will help you realize why not. The Black Panthers used to openly carry rifles and other firearms. They marched on Sacramento to demand an end to gun control restrictions.

The frightened legislators immediately the restrictions against carrying loaded weapons.

I sympathize with your situation as I was born in Los Angeles. I did the sensible thing ... I moved. The only thing you are likely to achieve by Open Carry in California is the enactment of stricter anti-gun legislation.

If you value your gun rights, don't open carry ... move to a freer state like Nevada.

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Unlike the militant and violent Black Panthers who carried LOADED firearms and threatened death to most anyone that didn't agree with them. We carry UNloaded forearms, with ammunition at the ready.

We do so in accordance with California law. We are not breaking any law, nor pushing our agenda on anyone by force.

It's a good thing.

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Shylock wrote:

A simple search of California history and the Black Panthers will help you realize why not. The Black Panthers used to openly carry rifles and other firearms. They marched on Sacramento to demand an end to gun control restrictions.

The frightened legislators immediately the restrictions against carrying loaded weapons.

I sympathize with your situation as I was born in Los Angeles. I did the sensible thing ... I moved. The only thing you are likely to achieve by Open Carry in California is the enactment of stricter anti-gun legislation.

If you value your gun rights, don't open carry ... move to a freer state like Nevada.

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I would like to point out in as polite a fashion as I am capable-

That since you no longer live in California, you gave up your ability to determine what is and isnt practiced in the Golden State. You may write our legislators to tell them just how displeased you are with those thatopen carry, but that has little effect as you cannot elect them.

By your abandonment of the State of your birth, you surrendered the fight to maintain or restore the 2nd amendment in California...

Your warning to cease our lawful activities is not compeling- as peacable open carry has little to do with storming the Capitol with arms while assembly is in session.

So please, take your advice against open carry in California and stuff it in a warm dark hole in whatever state you have taken up 'easy liberty' in.

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This argument is flawed and worn-out. Comparing a person exercising his rights within the law to a known violent gang is bullshit.

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Another idiot who on his first post opens his fool mouth and out spews anti rhetoric.

Why the hell do people who are anti open carry bother to join an open carry forum?

Because they are trolls.

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An Open Letter

Dear Alex Pedilla,

Senator California Senate District 20

In 1967 the Black Panthers marched on Sacramento with loaded rifles demanding an end to weapons restrictions. Although they were acting completely within the bounds of the law, it frightened a lot of people. The result was a common sense measure: People in California were banned from carrying a loaded weapon in places where it's illegal to discharge a firearm (such as within the city limits).

Recently I've become aware of a group of organizers called "Open Carry Advocates" who often carry their firearms openly (and unloaded) with a loaded clip in their pocket so they can speedily load the firearm. Many of these people don't have concealed carry licenses. Their motives are various but it doesn't seem that they are in fear of their life or anticipating trouble (such as going into dangerous neighborhood or violent situation). They do not believe that there are criminals in the area nor do they anticipate detaining anyone for the police.

Quite simply they are just interested in flaunting it.

The results are predictible: Mall security becomes nervous and calls the police. Several officers must respond to the perceived threat. Time, money, and manpower are wasted fruitlessly so that these individuals can get some kicks out of intimidating people who want nothing more than to have a pleasant shopping experience and frustrating police who are just trying to keep the peace. A typical experience can be found at this website (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/5988-1.html).

When I attempted to reason with these people at their website they became disrespectful, profane, and insulting. They are proud of their ability to antagonize police, waste public resources, and emerge unscathed because what they are doing is not actually against the law.

Why should we waste our valuable police resources chasing phantoms when they are real criminals at large in society? If a 21-year-old testosterone-charged male wants to feel powerful with his firearm there are places called shooting ranges where they may do so. The last time I checked the McDonalds hamburgers are already dead and don't need a .45 to keep them in check.

As your constituent, I propose a simple common sense measure. People who want to carry firearms openly should be required to leave the ammo at home. A simple law requiring the bullets to be at least 4' from the weapon should suffice.

I should also mention that I am a lifetime NRA member. This is not a gun issue, it's a safety and property rights issue. Private companies should not have to put up with people openly carrying weapons through their places of business in violation of their company policies for the sole purpose of scaring their customers away.

Should you have any questions, I can be reached at the American Embassy in Perú where I am stationed.

Your Constituent,





Shylock

xxxxx Covello Street

Van Nuys, CA 91406

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There ya go guys! Your open carry is winning converts left and right! Count me among them!

P.S. I found the racist comments about the Black Panthers to be quite inappropriate as well. The military has plenty of African Americans serving honorably. You'll also notice that I left my full address off so you don't go burn a cross in my mom's yard while I'm on duty overseas.

Semper Fi

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Another Marine against Constitutional Rights? WTF?

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Uh oh! An argument on an internet forum, and I'm not doing a good job trolling! Time to write to the congressmen!

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I think we all knew that the LA Times articles would bring a lot of trolls out of the woodwork, fortunately it has brought more curious Americans than it has freedom-hating/fearing trolls.

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Greetings from American Embassy Kuwait where it is hot and dusty, even at night. (Local time is 23:00/20:00 Zulu.)

I suggest that "Shylock" read the Second Amendment. Maybe after the SCOTUS decision on DC vs. Heller, the pro-freedom movement will gain even more traction and ridiculous anti-2A laws such as those on the books in California will be also declared unconsitutional, null and void.

I say maybe since the Court is taking its time releasing its decision. Even if the decision is a clear victory for Mr. Heller, that will just be one of many cases. Heller is about having an operable firearm in his home in DC. Someday someone in California will be in a case demanding the ability to openly carry an operable (LOADED) pistol on a street in California.

Thank God I am going to back to Virginia this summer where I can peaceably carry my LOADED XD-9 subcompact into City Hall if I feel like it. (And I have already.)

I don't know what is Shylock's problem, but he seems to think that law-abiding citizens peaceably carrying firearms are a problem because, gosh, police waste their time and energy running down people with holstered firearms walking around in public.

Silly me, I thought the problems in America were caused by criminals (like those in DC) running around with concealed weapons and opening fire on people. But no, the problem is open carriers "flaunting" their weapons. I think next time I see a suspicious bulge under someone's jacket, I'll just go call it in. Let's have the police stop and search EVERYBODY whenever they get a phone call. Who cares about the fourth amendment, Shylock is already trashing the second.

As for private property owners who want to ban guns from their property, fine, but there should be a law placing on the property owner liability for my safety since they are forcing me to be disarmed in their restaurant, or movie theater or shopping mall. Seems fair to me. I leave my gun at home so I can shop in your mall. If a nutcase shoots me inside the mall (despite the gun ban policy), then the property owner will be liable for punitive damages for failing to enforce their "gun free zone". Note to VCDL, please make this a priority!

Why should mall security be nervous? Aren't they providing security? Oh wait, they are UNARMED security. Well, Shylock, I love the freedom to provide my own ARMED security in states like Virginia. Maybe you can get a CHP in California, but we know that is discretionary. Cali should move to "shall issue" and see how the crime rate would drop.

For someone who moved, why do you have a Van Nuys address? Either you are a resident of California or you are not. I'm a resident of Virginia (paying those state taxes) while deployed here in Kuwait.

As for the Black Panthers, I looked them up in wikipedia. Here is a nice relevant excerpt near the end of the article.

On April 7, 1968, Panther Bobby Hutton, who held the title Minister of Defense, was killed, and Cleaver was wounded. Both the Oakland police and the Black Panther Party have called the event an ambush by the other group. Two policemen were shot in the incident[42][/suP].

This event and others furthered the Panther's reputation for violence and confrontation. The group's reputation was rivaled only by the Weathermen among large leftist organizations. Hugh Pearson stated, "the Left appeared to view the Panthers as gladiators, cheering them on as they got themselves killed"[43][/suP].

From the fall of 1967 through the end of 1969, nine police officers were killed and 56 were wounded in confrontations with the Panthers. The confrontations were believed to have resulted in ten Panther deaths and an unknown number of injuries. In 1969 alone, 348 Panthers were arrested for a variety of crimes [44][/suP].

END CITATION.

Now how manyopencarry.org forum members have shot and killed or been killed in the last 2 years? You are the one who brought up the Black Panthers and have tried to conflate them with people who support this website. You are totally offbase.

OK, that was a lot of fun. Others can feel free to pile on, but let's keep it civil. We don't want to upset Shylock.

I think you should cancel your NRA membership. Your views are nowhere near that organization's views. NRA members believe in self-defense, inside and outside the house, on "private property" like shopping centers, in National Parks, and in California.

Best wishes to you. Hope you don't run into any Shining Path or Tupacs. I'm trying to stay out of the way of the Quaeda and misguided Saudis.

And yes, I agree with Decoligny, Shylock is an idiot. I find that a lot of US Embassies have idiots working there, especially when it comes to gun rights. Oops, did I call Shylock an idiot?

I wonder if Shylock is writing from work. Anyway to check his IP address? If so, he is wasting government time I think. He posted at what time, 13:19 Lima time? Time to drop an anonymous note to his sysadmin. PM me for the ISSO's email address in Lima.

OK moderator, lock the thread down before someone tries to top my post! I'm going to sleep now. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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Shylock

I want to thank you for going out of your way to violate your solomn oath.

I, Shylock, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.(So help me God.)

You have self identified as an enemy of the Constitution of the United States.

You bring shame to the Marine Corp.

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I do not agree with all of the negative characterizations of the BPs. However, this is America, and, the 2A is alive and well.

I applaud those who are OCing in CA. I OC as much as possible, even though I can legally CC. I believe that it will (in fact) bring awareness to the legality of OC (instead of people wanting to ban OC). OCers........Unite!!!!

2nd Amendment...........Use it............Or, lose it!!:X

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The troll's logic is disjointed, and every other commenthe makes contradicts the other. There is no point in debating with him.

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Shylock wrote:

Semper Fi

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...meathead.

Maybe those liberals in Berkley should change their mind about the Marines?

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Shylock wrote:

I did the sensible thing ... I moved.

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...don't open carry ... move to a freer state like Nevada.

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...

I propose a simple common sense measure. People who want to carry firearms openly should be required to leave the ammo at home. A simple law requiring the bullets to be at least 4' from the weapon should suffice.

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Maybe instead of asking people who offend you to move you should consider movingyourselfto a placewhere it is unlawful to carry guns if it bothers you that much.That wayyou will never have to worryabout being offended by anybody lawfully carrying loaded weapons around you, andnobody will be able tolegallydefend themselves, just as you prefer.

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SGT Jensen wrote:

Shylock wrote:

Semper Fi

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...meathead.

Maybe those liberals in Berkley should change their mind about the Marines?

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Nah... ThisBonehead doesn't speak for the rest of us. He/she/it also doesn't know the meaning of Semper Fi.

Evidently,the only group this "thing" IS being 'faithful' to areit's fellow liberals in Berkely.

Such a sorry attempt to equate educating with flaunting. Laughable, really...

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Decoligny wrote:

Shylock

I want to thank you for going out of your way to violate your solomn oath.

I, Shylock, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God.)

You have self identified as an enemy of the Constitution of the United States.

You bring shame to the Marine Corp.

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+1

There are no doubt enemies of liberty in our midst. Some are unwitting tools of tyranny- oblivious to the damage that they do when they accept incremental restrictions and regulation of a Constitutionally protected right. Then there are those who actively seek the demise of that contruction in our Bill of Rights- who see the Constitution as a living document to be interpreted in any way that suits their purposes. Even when their interpretation defines right as wrong andslavery as freedom.

I may be flaunting my liberty, I will be damned if I ever take an oath to protect our Constitution and then make myself a liar and a traitor by defiantly and arrogantly petitioninggovernment representativesto abolish those liberties we the people should hold so dear. Such people are a disgrace- ignorant of the high cost with which our freedoms were purchased and too obtuse to realize the error of selling out our founding principles for the purpose of 'safety' and 'security'.

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ConditionThree wrote:

There are no doubt enemies of liberty in our midst. Some are unwitting tools of tyranny- oblivious to the damage that they do when they accept incremental restrictions and regulation of a Constitutionally protected right.

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+1

E.g. the NRA. I am not nor will I become an NRA member until they stop advocating a position of 'damager control' over a position of strict constitutional adherance. Seems to me the NRA is all too happy having the government in the business of issuing permission slips, requiring safety 'training', and outright banning various constitutionally protected types of firearms and methods of carry.

The NRA is not part of the solution at this point. If you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

The NRA is not part of the solution at this point. If you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

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Whoa. Slow down there cowboy. You may not like the NRA's tactics, but they are on our side. If you don't like the game that they play (politics - it's a tricky game) then you don't have to support them. But they are NOT part of the problem. They are a very powerful ally. I'm proud to say that I am a life member. And remember, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we will all hang separately."

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Shylock wrote:

...
Recently I've become aware of a group of organizers called "Open Carry Advocates" who often carry their firearms openly (and unloaded) with a loaded clip in their pocket so they can speedily load the firearm. Many of these people don't have concealed carry licenses. Their motives are various but it doesn't seem that they are in fear of their life or anticipating trouble (such as going into dangerous neighborhood or violent situation). They do not believe that there are criminals in the area nor do they anticipate detaining anyone for the police.

Quite simply they are just interested in flaunting it.


As your constituent, I propose a simple common sense measure. People who want to carry firearms openly should be required to leave the ammo at home. A simple law requiring the bullets to be at least 4' from the weapon should suffice.
...

Shylock

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Yep. Us clueless flaunters:what: don't really expect nuthin' to happen when we go places or drive on country roads out in Turlock in the evenin'. We jus' wanna pack heat! Shucks, your right. There ain't no criminals in the area. So, I 'spose your no bullets thing just might work. ...
Uh, but what happens though, if I come across a guy beating the life out a 2 yr. old. and he won't stop when I ask him to nicely. Oh never mind, that'll neve happen.
"GIMME BACK MY BULLETS!"


Bullets?