Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: ANOTHER open carry incident in Manchester, NH

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    370

    Post imported post

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFXVUIiDxkc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKZfa_XweBo

    Early reports that they were held at gunpoint are untrue.

    This incident will be the subject of discussion at the Gun Owners of New Hampshire Board of Directors meeting this evening, Tuesday June 17 at 7:00pm at the Concord Holiday Inn to explore possible courses of action to insure that such incidents STOP before someone is seriously injured or killed due to this kind of police misconduct.

    18 USC 242 and 42 USC 14141 will be subjects of discussion, needless to say.

    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm
    Title 42, U.S.C., Section 14141 makes it unlawful for state or local law enforcement agencies to allow officers to engage in a pattern or practice of conduct that deprives persons of rights protected by the Constitution or U.S. laws. This law, commonly referred to as the Police Misconduct Statute, gives the Department of Justice authority to seek civil remedies in cases where law enforcement agencies have policies or practices that foster a pattern of misconduct by employees. This action is directed against an agency, not against individual officers.
    In particular, the Manchester police's conduct with me, Dave Ridley, and Neal Connor and his friends, adding up to several occasions over the past four years, would appear to establish a pattern of conduct as described in 42 USC 14141.

    One of the individuals accosted on Sunday will be present, Ryan Marvin - the New Hampshire coordinator of Pink Pistols.

  2. #2
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    67

    Post imported post



    It is a shame that a minority of police officers feel the need to unlawfully detain people and lecture them on what they "feel" is right/wrong.

    Incidents like this just make me want to open carry more often.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    370

    Post imported post

    One of the most irritating things about all this is that whenever we try to de-criminalize concealed carry and go to Alaska-style, it's the police and the Police Chiefs Association who fight the hardest against it.

    They should make up their minds - if they don't want us to open carry, they shouldn't keep forcing us to get their permission and pay a tax in order to conceal.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    370

    Post imported post

    For those who may not be aware, here is a thread I posted on the Firing Line message board on May 18, 2004 - the text of a formal complaint I filed with the Public Integrity and Professional Standards division of the Manchester Police:

    http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=147930

    As you can see, the recent incident on June 8 means that we're apparently back to Square One with Manchester, it being a nearly play-by-play repeat of my own incident four years ago right down to the condescending lectures, in spite of all the progress we seemed to have made with them in the past four years.

  5. #5
    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    1,215

    Post imported post

    Wow, just wow.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,510

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the thread, Mike. I'd been waiting for more info over on the NH liberty forums before saying anything here, but no one has updated the original reports (other than the "held at gunpoint" issue).


  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    370

    Post imported post

    As it turns out, the person to whom I addressed my complaint in 2004 is now, as of very recently, the police chief of Manchester.

    Also, Ryan tells me that the conduct and questions of the officers indicate that they probably knew about Dave Ridley and previous open carry incidents, and thus knew better than to act the way they did but did it anyway.

    I wonder what reason they'll suggest as to why these four people should NOT file a suit along the lines of Dickenson.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    Harm to your self and the public? :shock:

    I have no problem with people being armed! I is logical to want to be able to fight off criminals.

    And there was a good cop in the group that knew it was their right to OC.

  9. #9
    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    1,896

    Post imported post

    Excellent report by Dave.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,510

    Post imported post

    Excellent opinion piece in NHinsider:

    http://www.nhinsider.com/richard-bar...un-rights.html

    Wonderful letter from one of those involved, to the police chief, mayor, and attorney general:

    http://www.nhliberty.org/forum/index...sg5459#msg5459



  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Waukesha, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    721

    Post imported post

    I saw the video on YouTube. Though NH is a pretty friendly place for OC I understand, we are dealing with the same type of incidents more often in WI.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    370

    Post imported post

    And there was a good cop in the group that knew it was their right to OC.
    That makes it WORSE for him, because he KNEW he was violating the civil rights of the group - a federal crime - but he did it and allowed others to continue to do it anyway. That means that he satisfies the "willfully" element of 18 USC 242.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Epsom, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    149

    Post imported post

    not meaning to hi-jack this thread or something like that,just had a question about something that happened during the incident..(might be off-topic though)

    ryan(i think)mentioned in the vid that the police checked serial #s on their guns to see if they were stolen...

    the gun i have was basically a gift (so i didn't get from dealer) from a friend that had a room mate leaveit behind when he left for germany(which was 2-3 yrs before it was given to me)..

    my question is-would i beable to have history of gun checked (or should i even worry about it)..i mean what if by some slim chance the guy stole it or something and i getquestioned by PD and they do the same and check the #s..(or am i thinking about it to much)

    (i could always check with my friend to see if he remembers where his room mate got it from..)

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,422

    Post imported post

    *

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cherry Tree (Indiana County), Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,155

    Post imported post

    The problem we have (New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, others) is that the police automatically run a check to see if it's stolen without having any probable cause, thus making it an illegal search in violation of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (and whatever similar articles/section apply to individual state constitutions). Running a check presumes guilt, not innocence.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Walton County, Georgia, ,
    Posts
    475

    Post imported post

    That seems like a load of crap to me. If they do run checks like that they should need to have a reason to run those checks. I don't see how they could just take your gun and then check to see if it was stolen unless they had cause to do so. And then ask you for proof that it is your gun? So now we have to carry proof that anything we have is actually ours? What about my MP3 player? I don't have the receipt for that. The clothes off my back? My wallet? The cash in my wallet?

    The burden of proof is on the accuser. I don't know how it is in New Hampshire but if they accuse you of having a stolen firearm they are the ones who are supposed to prove it, it's not your job to disprove it (unless they have proof to the contrary).

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Epsom, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    149

    Post imported post

    i don't plan on walking into the local PD and ask them to check the history of my gun,was just wondering if there was a way to check without involving police..

    when i first got the gun,i contacted the permit dept or dept of safety(i think,it's been awhile) and was told that i didn't have to register it..the women sounded confused that imentioned about the registration history..


    i know i'm just thinking to much into it.......OK,done and out of my mind.(not gonna think about it again)

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    370

    Post imported post

    Ryan Marvin, one of the four victims of the illegal seizure that is the subject of this thread, will be meeting this afternoon at 1:00pm with Mayor Frank Guinta.

    Supporters are invited to arrive at City Hall around 12:00 to 12:30 in advance of the meeting.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,964

    Post imported post

    Statkowski wrote:
    The problem we have (New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, others) is that the police automatically run a check to see if it's stolen without having any probable cause, thus making it an illegal search in violation of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (and whatever similar articles/section apply to individual state constitutions). Running a check presumes guilt, not innocence.
    Put elecrtical tape over the serial number.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,422

    Post imported post

    *

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    370

    Post imported post

    Here's a report on Ryan Marvin's meeting with Manchester Mayor Frank Guinta about the incident.

    http://bikerbillnh.blogspot.com/2008...s-to-town.html

    The mayor committed to an immediate and ongoing training program with respect to officer conduct towards individuals exercising their right to carry openly.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    370

    Post imported post

    There was yet another open carry harassment incident on August 9 in Manchester, where three police confronted a man carrying openly IN HIS OWN BACK YARD while grilling burgers.

    It was the second such incident for him in a bit over a year - last year they threw him against his fence and would not return his gun to him until he went inside.

    The outcome of the internal investigation of the harassment of Ryan Marvin and his friends is still pending.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,964

    Post imported post

    What is going on in Manchester? Seems that there are serious Civil Rights abusers on the police force. Time to step it up a notch. I would have an open carry rally in front of the police department HQ.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  24. #24
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,964

    Post imported post

    Pointman wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Put elecrtical tape over the serial number.
    You'll have to walk me through that one. Since guns (made after xxxx) must contain a serial number, seems the police will claim probable cause because you're trying to conceal either a gun with the number removed or a stolen gun.

    I'd think the better route would be to ask if you're being detained, then what the suspected crime is, then what you did to cause the officer to fear harm. A hammer is also a deadly weapon, and we wouldn't expect to be interrogated for carrying one, especially if it were in a retention holster.
    There is no law that the serial number must be in plain view. There are many grips that cover the serial number on firearms, for example. The Crimson Laser grips on my S&W 642 J Frame cover the serial number. That is not against the law. The removal of the electrical tape without a warrant is what is illegal. Some police run the serial number just to confirm that the firearm is not stolen. This can, and does lead to inconvenience and civil rights violationsof open carriers. If the police know that they will not be able to view the serial number, then they are less likely todetain a personin order to"run the numbers".
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,958

    Post imported post

    This is simply harassment. There is no probable cause for search and siezure. I'd sue their asses off.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •