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Thread: Sheboygan PD Letter

  1. #1
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    I have been a guest on this board for a couple months and wrote a letter the Sheboygan Police Department using some of the other letter as a guide and this what they had to say about Open Carry.I have been doing it around the house and yard with no issues with the police.

    To whom it may concern,

    As you are aware, Wisconsin's constitution grants the people the constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. Both the State Supreme Court and Governor Doyle have stated that as concealed carry is currently illegal in Wisconsin, open carry is the only means available to the citizens as a way of exercising this right. The State also has a pre-emption firearm law. Statute 66.0409(2)
    My concern is specifically how the department will respond should they receive a "man with a gun" call should an uninformed citizen contact your department regarding me exercising my right to bear arms. I understand how such a call must be investigated, but I am looking for some assurance that I would not be charged with disorderly conduct, or any other crime, so long as I am not violating any other laws such as bringing a firearm within 1000 feet of school grounds unless on private property, carrying while intoxicated, ect.
    Thank you for taking the time to read this letter and I will be waiting for your reply.

    Sincerely,
    GRB


    There response

    It would be nearly impossible to give a specific answer to your question as there are so many variables that could occur. Butona basiclevel, if a citizen that is unaware of the lawwould call the police because of someone carrying a firearm, we would respond accordingly. If the person that is carrying the firearm is doing so responsibly and within the law, then I don't see the issue going any further.

    Your comment, "...I am looking for some assurance that I would not be charged with...", is a matter of perspectiveby the person calling. If the complainant reports the person with the firearmwas acting in a disorderly, threatening orirresponsible manner or creating a disturbance of some type, thenthe police would have to look into the accusation made. The responding officer would have to take the entire circumstances into consideration in making a decision on how to resolve the complaint. With an issue like this, the "what if's" senarios are endless.

    By carrying a firearm a ton of responsibility comes withmaking that decision to carry. It can also bring more civil liability onto that person in the event that someone is injured or killed either by the person carrying, or if the weapon is taken away and used by someone else. Unfortunately we see some citizens that choose to carry doing so as some type of status symbol or think it is "cool". While those reason are not illegal, they arethe wrong reasons to carry.


  2. #2
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    It seems as though that is a positive response.

    They acknowledge that merely carrying is law abiding.

    I'm going to write a letter to the New Berlin PD (I live in NB) and I think I'm going to state perhaps in addition:

    "does the mere presence of an openly carried firearm in and of itself" constitute disorderly conduct/disturbing the peace



    Do you guys email these letters or mail them?



  3. #3
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    GRB wrote:
    There response

    It would be nearly impossible to give a specific answer to your question as there are so many variables that could occur. Butona basiclevel, if a citizen that is unaware of the lawwould call the police because of someone carrying a firearm, we would respond accordingly. If the person that is carrying the firearm is doing so responsibly and within the law, then I don't see the issue going any further.

    Your comment, "...I am looking for some assurance that I would not be charged with...", is a matter of perspectiveby the person calling. If the complainant reports the person with the firearmwas acting in a disorderly, threatening orirresponsible manner or creating a disturbance of some type, thenthe police would have to look into the accusation made. The responding officer would have to take the entire circumstances into consideration in making a decision on how to resolve the complaint. With an issue like this, the "what if's" senarios are endless.

    By carrying a firearm a ton of responsibility comes withmaking that decision to carry. It can also bring more civil liability onto that person in the event that someone is injured or killed either by the person carrying, or if the weapon is taken away and used by someone else. Unfortunately we see some citizens that choose to carry doing so as some type of status symbol or think it is "cool". While those reason are not illegal, they arethe wrong reasons to carry.
    Fine and dandy. But, any critera for arrest should apply to the disorderly conduct whether or not the person is carrying a holstered firearm.

  4. #4
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    Here is my draft, I welcome any input

    Chief Joseph Rieder,

    Wisconsin's constitution grants the people the constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. Both the State Supreme Court and Governor Doyle have stated that as concealed carry is currently illegal in Wisconsin, open carry is the only means available to the citizens as a way of exercising this right. The State also has a pre-emption firearm law. Statute 66.0409(2)

    Having recently relocated to New Berlin, as a new resident and property owner, the purpose of my letter is to understand thatthe New Berlin Police departments policy on the open carry of a firearm iscongruouswith state law. Ithas been my experience that a few municipalities in Wisconsin were even unaware of the current statutes regarding the right to open carry.

    I understand thatyour department cannot provide any preconceived assurances based on hypothetical situations of the handling of an infinite number of possible scenarios. I would like to confirm however, as a matter or principle and practicality, thatin accordance with state law, merely the possession of aproperly holstered non-concealled openly carried firearmin publicdoes not in and of itself constitutedisorderly conduct/disturbing the peace.

    Thank-you in advance for your time and the favor of a reply




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    Looks about perfect to me!

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    Here is my draft, I welcome any input

    Chief Joseph Rieder,

    Wisconsin's constitution grants the people the constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. Both the State Supreme Court and Governor Doyle have stated that as concealed carry is currently illegal in Wisconsin, open carry is the only means available to the citizens as a way of exercising this right. The State also has a pre-emption firearm law. Statute 66.0409(2)

    Having recently relocated to New Berlin, as a new resident and property owner, the purpose of my letter is to understand thatthe New Berlin Police departments policy on the open carry of a firearm iscongruouswith state law. Ithas been my experience that a few municipalities in Wisconsin were even unaware of the current statutes regarding the right to open carry.

    I understand thatyour department cannot provide any preconceived assurances based on hypothetical situations of the handling of an infinite number of possible scenarios. I would like to confirm however, as a matter or principle and practicality, thatin accordance with state law, merely the possession of aproperly holstered non-concealled openly carried firearmin publicdoes not in and of itself constitutedisorderly conduct/disturbing the peace.

    Thank-you in advance for your time and the favor of a reply



    Wow, I almost want to send this to the Madison PD. Nice letter.


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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    Here is my draft, I welcome any input
    Chief Joseph Rieder,

    Wisconsin's constitution grants the people the constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. Both the State Supreme Court and Governor Doyle have stated that as concealed carry is currently illegal in Wisconsin, open carry is the only means available to the citizens as a way of exercising this right. The State also has a pre-emption firearm law. Statute 66.0409(2)
    Having recently relocated to New Berlin, as a new resident and property owner, the purpose of my letter is to understand thatthe New Berlin Police departments policy on the open carry of a firearm iscongruouswith state law. Ithas been my experience that a few municipalities in Wisconsin were even unaware of the current statutes regarding the right to open carry.
    I understand thatyour department cannot provide any preconceived assurances based on hypothetical situations of the handling of an infinite number of possible scenarios. I would like to confirm however, as a matter or principle and practicality, thatin accordance with state law, merely the possession of aproperly holstered non-concealled openly carried firearmin publicdoes not in and of itself constitutedisorderly conduct/disturbing the peace.
    Thank-you in advance for your time and the favor of a reply
    VERY nice letter. Mind if I change a few things around and submit it to Greenfield PD?

  8. #8
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    Overall, I don't think the letter from Sheboygan PD is so bad, other than the gratuitous editorializing at the end.

    Brigdh, LOL, if you send it to Madison PD and get any better reply than I did when I wrote on the same topic, then more power to you my friend! (They avoided answering the question by suggesting thatI should consult an attorney if I had questions on the legality of OC. I askedno questions regarding the legality of OC--of that I have no doubt--what I had actually asked was about Madison PD's policies, training and instruction to its officers. It's been awhile now, but maybe I'll follow up with that particular Captain and have another round of it with her.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    hugh that is a great letter. Pithy. Phrased well.

    Time to get on this with Waukesha and see how they respond.

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    Mind if I change a few things around and submit it to Greenfield PD?

    Please feel free! I'm just glad to have found this site and all you guys. I have been pouting about CCW going down in Wisconsin since the veto-override failed.

    I feel like I have hope again.





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    Really good letter, mind if I borrow it here in Fort Atkinson?

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    Please feel free.

    I'm a little nervous about sending the letter so I've put it off for a week or so here. I'm worried about blacklisting myself with the local PD.

    I don't want to have copskeeping their eye out for me everytime I'm rolling thru town on my motorcycle which has aftermarket pipes or driving 5 over the speed limit.

    I want to enjoy my rights without fear of the government but I don't want to blacklist myself either?

    Anyone have any problems with reprecussions?

    I've thought about sending it with just my first name from my office, but don't want to be a victim of fear either.

    Hugh



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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    Please feel free.

    I'm a little nervous about sending the letter so I've put it off for a week or so here. I'm worried about blacklisting myself with the local PD.

    I don't want to have copskeeping their eye out for me everytime I'm rolling thru town on my motorcycle which has aftermarket pipes or driving 5 over the speed limit.

    I want to enjoy my rights without fear of the government but I don't want to blacklist myself either?

    Anyone have any problems with reprecussions?

    I've thought about sending it with just my first name from my office, but don't want to be a victim of fear either.

    Hugh
    It would seem that if you covered your bases by getting the letter notarized, and sending it registered mail as proof of existance, anything that happens later would be looked upon as harassment. Wasn't there an issue in IL where citizens were writing to a legislator to only be visited by the state police? You are only expressing your 1st amendment rights, and any negative response on their part would be criminal.

  14. #14
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    It would seem that if you covered your bases by getting the letter notarized, and sending it registered mail as proof of existance, anything that happens later would be looked upon as harassment.
    Unfortunately, given that most people break the law every day (speeding/aftermarket exhaust on motorcycles) just to name a few, my concern is that the po-lice would have no problem finding a legitimate (though ticky tack) way of making things difficult for a person if they so chose.

    I don't think most departments would, but I'm also well aware that the behind-the-badge-ego-trip is out there.





  15. #15
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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    It would seem that if you covered your bases by getting the letter notarized, and sending it registered mail as proof of existance, anything that happens later would be looked upon as harassment.
    Unfortunately, given that most people break the law every day (speeding/aftermarket exhaust on motorcycles) just to name a few, my concern is that the po-lice would have no problem finding a legitimate (though ticky tack) way of making things difficult for a person if they so chose.

    I don't think most departments would, but I'm also well aware that the behind-the-badge-ego-trip is out there.
    You got a point, wouldn't be hard to find some kind of vioation.

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    I read this whole page. Did you ever get a response from NBPD?

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    Family Man wrote:
    I read this whole page. Did you ever get a response from NBPD?
    Note up above where it says Friday 6/27...

    I'm a little nervous about sending the letter so I've put it off for a week or so here.
    He hasn't sent it.
    - What da hay?

    Keep Calm and Carry On

  18. #18
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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    I want to enjoy my rights without fear of the government but I don't want to blacklist myself either?

    Anyone have any problems with reprecussions?

    I've thought about sending it with just my first name from my office, but don't want to be a victim of fear either.
    Hugh, I understand what you are talking about here, but if patriots over the years let this get into their heads then we would be all the more slaves to the government than we are now!

    IMHO, any person who's bought a handgun in the last 15 years is already on the government's blacklist. Its a fact of life that the state as an entity doesn't like people owning guns.

    A patriot must pick a few things and fight for those things strongly. He cannot fight for everything since then he will go insane!

    If nothing else, you can walk into the Police department in person and ask to speak with a Leutennant on duty. No need to give them anything on paper to "track you down" with. Ultimately, if you OC, likely that you will have a Police encounter. So then you will have to give your name if you are asked. Unfortunately, one cannot these days exercise some of their rights annoymously.

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    hugh jarmis wrote:

    I'm a little nervous about sending the letter so I've put it off for a week or so here. I'm worried about blacklisting myself with the local PD.

    I don't want to have copskeeping their eye out for me everytime I'm rolling thru town on my motorcycle which has aftermarket pipes or driving 5 over the speed limit.

    I want to enjoy my rights without fear of the government but I don't want to blacklist myself either?

    Anyone have any problems with reprecussions?

    I've thought about sending it with just my first name from my office, but don't want to be a victim of fear either.

    Hugh






    If you are worried about the repercussions of sending a letter you are already a victim of fear. Send the letter and show you are unafraid.

    "Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed-and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian law-maker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrinkfrom controversy." JFK





  20. #20
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    I have been sending similar letters to LEO state wide, including Milwaukee. Some have replied, some haven't. I can modify it a little and send it as "my request" if you like.

    Either we are the sheep, or we are the shepherds and the shepherds are the ONLY thing standing between the sheep and the wolves.

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    Greetings all. I am traveling to and will be in the Sheboygan area the 13th, 14th and 15th of july. Staying in Kohler Village. Would be interested in meeting up with OCer's to roam about and exercise our freedoms and rights. Any suggestions.



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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    I have been sending similar letters to LEO state wide, including Milwaukee. Some have replied, some haven't. I can modify it a little and send it as "my request" if you like.

    Either we are the sheep, or we are the shepherds and the shepherds are the ONLY thing standing between the sheep and the wolves.
    A similar analogy is the sheep, sheepdog, and wolves.

    Sheepdogs like me wish to be armed wherever I am.

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    I'm a little nervous about sending the letter so I've put it off for a week or so here.
    Wow. The police up there have you people too scared to send letters to public employees?

    No wonder Wisconsinites do not just start carrying, legally. You are all too timid.

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