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Thread: OpenCarry.org mentioned in Basic Safety Class

  1. #1
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    Today I took the basic handgun saftey course at sharpshooters.

    Was a pretty good class, I was finally able to get a little hands-on experience

    with several different firearms.


    Robin Ball was the instructor, during the classroom time she was going over

    facility rules. She mentioned the rule that firearms should be cased when

    they come in the facility. She said that if you have a CPL you are welcome to

    bring your firearm in concealed. She said that she had been "talking to the

    Open Carry people ad nauseum, but at this time open carry was not allowed."

    And no matter how many discussions with the open carry people, she is not

    planning on changing that rule. (I, nor any other students brought this up,

    she brought it up on her own. And i just thought that I would share that info.)



    It was a good class. I didn't really want to go alone, so I invited my mother to
    come with me. I didn't really think she would, but she was actually excited by the
    chance. During the classroom time the discussion kinda got off topic for about ten
    minutes before we went onto the range, but the rest of the time, right on topic.

    During both classroom, and range time, i didn't notice the instructor do anything
    to violate any saftey rules, however, I did notice one of her employees break
    a basic saftey rule. He was helping set up a gun, at eight different lanes. He had
    two guns in one lane. He took one of those guns to the next lane, and in doing so
    kept the gun pointed down range, however, he went around one of the other
    employees. So for about a second, he had the gun about a foot away from, and
    pointed directly at the other employee. He noticed what he was doing, and
    immediately pointed the gun straight down, but he still got a dirty look from the
    other employee, and from Robin.



    Like i said, my mother went with me. When she was shooting the .22 cal revolver
    her hits where all over the target, while mine were pretty well dead center.
    With the 9mm's my shots were pretty close to the center, and hers were a little
    more spread out, but not nearly as bad as her .22 shots. When we shot the
    .40 semi-auto, my shots were all slightly low, however, my mothers shots were
    completely in the middle of the target, dead on center. Kinda shocking for me.
    I also got to shoot a .22 Semi-Auto, I took one shot, and got a double feed,
    then i took two shots, and got another double feed. Reguardless to say, i don't
    ever think i will ever want a .22 Semi-Auto.

    All-in-all, really fun time. I now feel confident that i can go to the range on my own
    and not worry about being lost, and not being sure what to do.
    As we were leaving, my mom suggested that we both get a membership there,
    and go shooting every monday.

    Isn't it a little weird for a 23 year old MAN to want to have his mummy go with
    him to a firearms class....... Doesn't matter to me, I am a little weird.

  2. #2
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Hrm... sounds like the emails may be in vain, BobCav. As good as they were sounding. :?
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

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    I am glad to hear that it is a good class. My wife and I are going to go take it this saturday. I will have to keep my ears open for anything open carry related.

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    Isn't it a little weird for a 23 year old MAN to want to have his mummy go with
    him to a firearms class....... Doesn't matter to me, I am a little weird.

    NO WAY MAN.It is a good class for every one and myself I love to take my mom shooting when she visits, and I am the one that convinced her into getting a CPL. Something to think about for your mom huh.

    You sound like you are going to be a good responsible gun owner.:celebrate



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    just_a_car wrote:
    Hrm... sounds like the emails may be in vain, BobCav. As good as they were sounding. :?
    Hmmmmm...

    SlacK, glad it was a good class and you got a lot from it. Training is always good.

    did Robin actually use thewords "Ad Nauseum"? (Literally translating "to the point of nausea" aka disgust). That's strange because our e-mails were very friendly and respectfuland she stated she enjoyed the exchanges. I never had any indication otherwise.


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    yes she did, but when she said it, she kinda had a smile on her face.

    I got the impression she only used ad nauseum as an expression meaning "a lot"

    rather than meaning it in it's literal form.


    (is there any possiblity for you to make a new topic, and post all of your cooresponance with her, or others like her. I would like to see how
    smart people, like you handle discussions like these)

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    Gotcha. Well, she has all the facts and it's her business and can make up whatever rules she likes. I haven't heard anything "official" back from her so perhaps the jury is still out?

    I hope she does change it because I would like to take my wife and SIL there for classes, but as you all know, I only OC and will not disarm.

    SlacK wrote:
    (is there any possiblity for you to make a new topic, and post all of your cooresponance with her, or others like her. I would like to see how
    smart people, like you handle discussions like these)
    Smart people like me? Sure got you fooled, huh? LOL...Thanks for the compliment. It's just a good vocabulary mixed with passion, nothing more.

    Robin said she had no problem with posting her replies. Maybe it would help others. My style depends on the recipient...in Robin's case, she being an activist also and very pro RKBA, I didn't have to "dumb it down" for her and could get into more of the details of why I prefer OC. A LOT different if you were writing to a senator.



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    First off, good for you for taking a training course and another good for you for getting your family involved.

    I took Sharpshootings basic handgun safety course right when I turned 18... But I kind of was raised around firearms being both my parents put in 20 years in the military and my dad carried every day to work. So in the end, it was kind of more of a refresher + time at the range. Which is still fun

    And if I remember correctly (which I almost always do) my class was 4 middle aged women and myself. I seem to get the feeling from my few visits there, as well as what I hear online that sharpshooting is big on getting women trained on safety and self defense which is another big +1.

    Moving on, it is a little discouraging about the OC topic. But I have a question about the way you wrote up the conversation.

    First in quotes you said Robin stated "but at this time open carryis not allowed" which seems to state just for the moment, as in she is looking into it, or it might change in the future...

    Than out of quotes you follow up with : And no matter how many discussions with the open carry people, she is not planning on changing that rule.

    Did she say that herself? Like to the word? Because those 2 statements are in dirrect conflict with each other. Don't understand why someone would say "not allowed at this time and I will not change this rule ever"

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:
    Hrm... sounds like the emails may be in vain, BobCav. As good as they were sounding. :?
    They probably weren't in vain, they just didn't support her position.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    amlevin wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    Hrm... sounds like the emails may be in vain, BobCav. As good as they were sounding. :?
    They probably weren't in vain, they just didn't support her position.
    Not sure. I explained the reasons for OC (that she fully agreed with - defense, deterrent, education, etc) and I think she's quite a bit more like us than we realize, re: activist, enacting legislative change, education, safety, etc.

    I doubt that she would be contacting those other ranges and stores if it was off the table.

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    David.Car wrote:
    I seem to get the feeling from my few visits there, as well as what I hear online that sharpshooting is big on getting women trained on safety and self defense which is another big +1.



    First in quotes you said Robin stated "but at this time open carryis not allowed" which seems to state just for the moment, as in she is looking into it, or it might change in the future...

    Than out of quotes you follow up with : And no matter how many discussions with the open carry people, she is not planning on changing that rule.

    Did she say that herself? Like to the word? Because those 2 statements are in dirrect conflict with each other. Don't understand why someone would say "not allowed at this time and I will not change this rule ever"

    Yeah they seem big on getting women involved. Apparently mondays are free gun
    rentals for women days. no free gun rental for guys days , however, (as i
    understand it) if you bring a woman along with you, then you get the free rental too.

    Yeah, when i wrote it, i put quotes over the entire thing, but as i was proof reading
    my post, i realized i couldn't put the last part of the sentence in quotes, because
    it was not an exact quote. However, she did say that no matter how much
    conversation was had, that she was not planning on changing the policy.

    I did notice that the two phrases can seem mutally exclusive, but as I was
    looking into it, I realized that both can be totally true at the same time.
    Because, at this time, that is the policy, doesn't nessessarily mean the policy
    has the possibility of being changed.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for clearing that up for me.

    Also for as far as women go. If you bring a woman to the range with you they are half price for the range fee.

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    I still haven't figured out what the difference is, safety wise,between CC and OC. The damn gun is loaded and in the holster isn't it? So whether it is inside the coat or outside is of no real difference. She and others are just being petty.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    I still haven't figured out what the difference is, safety wise,between CC and OC. The damn gun is loaded and in the holster isn't it? So whether it is inside the coat or outside is of no real difference. She and others are just being petty.
    In our first e-mail exchange I brought that very point up. Her respose (below) wasthat shedoesn't want to "scare" new prospective shooters in the store. I have to ask the question what kind of IDIOTwould go INTO a gun store and then claim be afraid of seeing a gun? That would be like walking into a strip club and being SHOCKED at seeing naked women! DUUUHHHH....

    I'll bet that my own 2 years of OC has turned more people onto guns, their legality and the safe handlingthan her one store policy has in5 years. And that's just me alone! Wife (who was anti), mother, father, brother, 5 daughters, two son-in-laws, Brother-In-Law, Sister-In-Law and probably 20-30 others. In just 2 years! IMagine what a whole herd of OC'ers can accomplish!

    And frankly after the latest Training Bulletinsthat have gone out to theSpokane PD, maybe we should have anOCDO Lunch at that restaurant that's close by her place? Anyone know the name or OC'ed there before?


    [SNIP]...
    We deal with a lot of new shooters. If we scare someone in the
    lobby who is intimidated to begin with, they will never come back and
    that is counter-productive to my business. We are also within view of a
    restaurant and they are good neighbors, I don't want to make anyone
    uncomfortable. I am only 13 years into this business, so I am still a
    rookie, but I can't tell from 80 feet away (the building is 88 feet
    wide) the condition of a firearm, whether it is loaded, the intention of
    the person, their skill level, etc., and whether that person is a safety
    risk to my other customers or my staff. We choose to err on the side of
    unforgiving safety. We have a policy in place that does not allow
    handling of firearms in the lobby or the classroom except under strictly
    controlled situations. Unlike other gun stores, we hand you guns and
    ammo to go shoot. We don't want inexperienced shooters or sloppy gun
    owners (and you may not be one but you probably know one) handling guns
    in the public areas.


  15. #15
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    seems to me there is a difference between carrying, and handling.

    Last week i saw one guy open carrying, coming out of the restaurant, he went to
    his car, got out a bag, took of his holster, put it in the bag.

    then, went into the gun shop.

  16. #16
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    BobCav wrote:
    maybe we should have anOCDO Lunch at that restaurant that's close by her place? Anyone know the name or OC'ed there before?
    I believe it is called "Crossroads Restaurant"

    3435 E Trent Ave
    Spokane, WA 99202
    (509) 535-5297


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    Slack,

    There's handling, and then there's handling. Your account was very brief, but if you mean the person you saw "took off the holster" w/o removing the handgun first, then that barely qualifies as "handling" in my book--at least not if the holster is a decent one where the trigger is properly covered.



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    BobCav wrote:
    snip
    It's just a good vocabulary mixed with passion, nothing more.
    Ergo, smart. :P

  19. #19
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    BobCav wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    I still haven't figured out what the difference is, safety wise,between CC and OC. The damn gun is loaded and in the holster isn't it? So whether it is inside the coat or outside is of no real difference. She and others are just being petty.
    In our first e-mail exchange I brought that very point up. Her respose (below) wasthat shedoesn't want to "scare" new prospective shooters in the store. I have to ask the question what kind of IDIOTwould go INTO a gun store and then claim be afraid of seeing a gun? That would be like walking into a strip club and being SHOCKED at seeing naked women! DUUUHHHH....

    I'll bet that my own 2 years of OC has turned more people onto guns, their legality and the safe handlingthan her one store policy has in5 years. And that's just me alone! Wife (who was anti), mother, father, brother, 5 daughters, two son-in-laws, Brother-In-Law, Sister-In-Law and probably 20-30 others. In just 2 years! IMagine what a whole herd of OC'ers can accomplish!

    And frankly after the latest Training Bulletinsthat have gone out to theSpokane PD, maybe we should have anOCDO Lunch at that restaurant that's close by her place? Anyone know the name or OC'ed there before?


    [SNIP]...
    We deal with a lot of new shooters. If we scare someone in the
    lobby who is intimidated to begin with, they will never come back and
    that is counter-productive to my business. We are also within view of a
    restaurant and they are good neighbors, I don't want to make anyone
    uncomfortable. I am only 13 years into this business, so I am still a
    rookie, but I can't tell from 80 feet away (the building is 88 feet
    wide) the condition of a firearm, whether it is loaded, the intention of
    the person, their skill level, etc., and whether that person is a safety
    risk to my other customers or my staff. We choose to err on the side of
    unforgiving safety. We have a policy in place that does not allow
    handling of firearms in the lobby or the classroom except under strictly
    controlled situations. Unlike other gun stores, we hand you guns and
    ammo to go shoot. We don't want inexperienced shooters or sloppy gun
    owners (and you may not be one but you probably know one) handling guns
    in the public areas.
    That's just pure BS, justifying the position she has taken. First off her people are wearing guns openly. If that doesn't scare the new shooter off then someone else wandering around open carrying isn't gonna scare them any worse. If she is having a problem with sloppy gun handlers, she needs to address those people on a one to one bases and not punish everyone else for what might happen or could happen. Her rules are just plain discriminatory from the word go. She assumes everyone one will do it wrong. Not an outfit I want to deal with or spend my money atwith their attitude. Sheis two faced at best, just like most gun shows. My local gun stores have no issue with CC or OC.

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    the one good part about only the employees OCing, is that when i go there
    i always know who the employees are, since they don't seem to wear
    any other type of ID, or uniform.

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    SlacK wrote:
    the one good part about only the employees OCing, is that when i go there
    i always know who the employees are, since they don't seem to wear
    any other type of ID, or uniform.
    A nametag with the company name or logo and their name on it would seem appropriate rather than a gun.

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    i was thinking that too, but then i started thinking how much i would love
    to be able to just wear a side-arm, instead of a nametag at work. That'd be cool

    Wonder if anyone at the nursing home where i work, would care?

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    I don't see OC ever being accepted at either Sharp Shooters or the Spokane Rifle Club.

    I think it has more to do with liability, real or perceived, than anything else. All it would take is one negligent dischargewhile someone is unholstering their gun, a person to be hit by the bullet, and a bottom feeding lawyer to sue for enough money to force them out of business forever. I don't care how much insurance the facility carries, you can always be sued for more than the insurance will cover and end up taking the hit yourself.

    Although, if a person is just coming in to shop, and not use the range, there is no reason under the sun that OC should be disallowed.

    There are those who support the 2A, and then there are those who practice the 2A, I think Robin does an outstanding job supporting the 2A, she just wants to restrict its practice in her store.

    Oh well, there are plenty of other guns shops in town that are more than happy to allow me to carry while I shop, and they will be getting my money.

    bob





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    BobR wrote:
    Oh well, there are plenty of other guns shops in town that are more than happy to allow me to carry while I shop, and they will be getting my money.

    bob
    Stores... Yes

    Ranges... No...

    Unfortunately Sharpshooting and the Spokane Rifle Club are basicly the only range choices in Spokane. Another member did bring up a public outdoor range that is basically just open property that only costs 3 bucks... But it is more than a 30 min drive and unless I am going to go with a group of people in one vehicle, it ends up costing more just for gas in my car.

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    BobR wrote:
    I don't see OC ever being accepted at either Sharp Shooters or the Spokane Rifle Club.

    I think it has more to do with liability, real or perceived, than anything else. All it would take is one negligent dischargewhile someone is unholstering their gun, a person to be hit by the bullet, and a bottom feeding lawyer to sue for enough money to force them out of business forever. I don't care how much insurance the facility carries, you can always be sued for more than the insurance will cover and end up taking the hit yourself.

    Although, if a person is just coming in to shop, and not use the range, there is no reason under the sun that OC should be disallowed.

    There are those who support the 2A, and then there are those who practice the 2A, I think Robin does an outstanding job supporting the 2A, she just wants to restrict its practice in her store.

    Oh well, there are plenty of other guns shops in town that are more than happy to allow me to carry while I shop, and they will be getting my money.

    bob



    If it was aliability issue then CC would not be allowed either, but it is OK. It's because they want the money from the gun people, but they don't really like guns or understand the gun owner's mind.

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