Utah gun owners open carry at West Valley City Hall and protest police ignorance of gun laws

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Great stuff, you guys. You're doing good work. Keep it up.

Read through the Virginia threads about Manassas (Jan 07). There is some good info on wording to use for FOIA requests, and actions that were taken there.

You're unlikely to get action through the police department (in my limited experience) but the FOIAs will get you the information you need.

Also note how many of us have taken to carrying pocket recorders whenever we carry. I don't know if that's legal in Utah; fortunately, it is for us.

And congrats on the selection of the Thunder .380. I carried that for a long time, and have recently started carrying the Thunder 9mm regularly.

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Thanks Tess, I hope you like that 9mm.

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Tess wrote:

Also note how many of us have taken to carrying pocket recorders whenever we carry. I don't know if that's legal in Utah; fortunately, it is for us.

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It is. Utah is a one-party consent state for recordings.

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A columnist for the Salt Lake Tribune has attacked those who attended the West Valley meeting.

We need to flood this article with pro-carry comments!!!

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9648769

Let's roll guys!

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Made my own comment, and I sent this to the writer.

Dear Rebecca Walsh, Thanks for your opinion on Open carry. However I have to disagree with your opinion. It's one thing to be careful with somebody with a gun, It's quite another to violate their constitutional rights.I am one of the gun crazy individuals who "stormed" the West Valley City council meeting. I really don't get why you would use such an aggressive word to describe our actions. I believe that the proper term would have been, peaceably assembled. I am unsure whether you were one of the reporters that were in attendance, but I don't believe that you were, as it was a very peacable meeting. I am also unsure of how you came to the conclusion that we are the "self-appointed, well regulated militia" and I wonder how we "undercut careful law enforcement, membership in a civil society and even reason." (edited out the S at the end of undercut so it would be proper grammer) And who did you interview before you came up with this gem? "It's in the Constitution, their thinking goes. They are "peaceably going about their business while armed," standing on the watchtower, the last line of defense against government tyranny and crazed criminals. We should thank them" I never asked for thanks, only recognition that it (Open carry) is a legal activity, and thereforea citizen doing it should not be harrassed by police. "But the OpenCarry movement is a mystery to me. What kind of psychology - overcompensation, paranoia, antisocial personality - is behind that thinking?" I personally do not find myself, Mr. Deveraux, my wife, or any of the people who I associate with to be Paranoid, or anti-social. As that is I take offense at this statement. "We have inconsiderate boors walking around on the street carrying firearms openly," says Gunn. "I don't think they are truly afraid for their safety. Most of them are trying to make a statement about the 2nd Amendment." Well, I personally am afraid for my self defense, as I have been shot by someone who meant to take my life, and I shot back. At the same time, Yes, I am trying to makea statement about the 2nd ammendment. People should know that they have a right to keep and bear arms, and they should also know that it is legal here in our great state. I also take offense to the statement that we are inconsiderate boors. Of course this is not yourr statement, but you did go out of your way to put it into your article. As far as Deveraux's situation in WVC, he was drawn on by an officer, who had their finger on the trigger, which any self respecting, responsible gun owner know you only do when fully intent on firing the weapon. He was then detained for an inordinate amount of time, until they finally decided that he had done NOTHING WRONG. Civil rights violation? Yes. Did Travis Deveraux bring a lawsuit? No. But he is complaining. I ask that you please study both sides of the "argument" before forming an opinion, and then publishing it. I saw that you quoted quite a few people on the gun control side of the "argument" but only a single quote from someone on the pro gun side. And that particular quote has been in the news before, on Fox 13, KSL, Your own Salt Lake Tribune. Please give us a chance to voice our side as well. Sincerely, Jeramiah McDonald

OH, and it was more properly formatted but the post thing screwed with it.

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What a waste of 5 minutes. Just got done reading this mindless drivel. Ugh... Marked her "thumbs down." These people aren't even worth responding to, they're beyond hope.

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GeneticsDave wrote:

What a waste of 5 minutes. Just got done reading this mindless drivel. Ugh... Marked her "thumbs down." These people aren't even worth responding to, they're beyond hope.

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Yeah, after reading it, I just ignored and walked away, figuratively speaking.

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good job guys. keep doing what you are doing.....fighting the GOOD fight

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I would post a comment but most of those people are just not worth your time. Won't see the other side of the issue and just say "you're dumb" and "small problems" or whatever.

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I spent a little time posting replies, and most of them are no open to change.

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hey, so

I read the article on www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9662672

I saw it on fark.



And I thought to myself, this lady is so full of shit.

the article is setup so that there are only two sides, people who carry and people who don't.. and that people who don't carry are victims..



it's a persons right to bear arms, if they don't want to carry, to learn how to handle a weapon, that's their choice. just as it is our choice to carry (I don't carry, yet, no money..).

But I mean, Rebecca is acting like they're victims, they're not. If they're afraid of someone excersizing their right, perhaps they should exercize their own right and carry one themselves!

Anyway, I signed up, just to gripe about this article and how much is so full of shit. I support people using their rights to their full advantage. They may label people who carry weapons as paranoid, but if I were to walk around with a condom on my hip, they'd call me a pervert.

It's about protection, plain and simple. I'd rather have one and not need it, than need it and not have one!



absolutely ridiculous.

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You all are SO right.

We have a RIGHT to carry a firearm, but she has a PRIVILEGE to drive a car.

TJ

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The author responded to the e-mail I shot her.

You can find it here

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It's about protection, plain and simple. I'd rather have one and not need it, than need it and not have one!

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That is a very true statement about condoms as well. They are about protection and I'd rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one.

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I just saw the video at the begining of this thead.

Here's what I suggest that you do.

File a formal complaint with the Police Chief of the city. Advisethis cockroack of the law, and how isofficers and his department routinely disobey it.

File a formal complaint with the police review commision per the advice of the city council.

Purchase some easily hidden/concealed video equipment. It's not expensive.

Find some attorney who will take a harrasment case on contingency or out of conviction to this cause. Line them up in advance.

Then...

Go out in a very public way, and usingthe video equipment (other people), cover your OCarrier. Wire him for sound. Get it all. Trap them in illegal activity. It is not illegal to video tap illegal activity (even if it means video taping illegal police activities).

Use this in you complaint with the police comission.

At the same time...

File a lawsuit against the.... city, plus the police officers involved, watch commander and police chief (personal suits) for carrying out/conspiracy to conduct illegal activity.

These may have to be Federal suits for civil rights violations--cheaply filed. Easily dropped and settled.

It will never, ever go to court. They will settle with either concessions, public apologies, money--or combinations of these.

Make a point of this. When all the LEO's in the state see this, they will backoff in a rather dramatic and public way.

Guaranteed.



T

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Well, unfortunately TJ does not want to get any of the officers into any trouble, But I agree with you on what you suggested to do.

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You're not really putting the officers in a postion to get into trouble.

You're putting them into a position where they think they're going to get into trouble

What you are doing is running a strong hand against them.... it's poker.

The officers, chief, city, et. al will have to make a decision--fight and loose when the law is againt them. Or capitulate, learn from the experience and move on.

Stop being wennies! I'm an alumni of BYU, I used to live in Utah in the 70's.

This state is a far cry from what it was. Now in many places it is completely undescernable from California. You have liberal cockroaches running some areas, and you have to put your foot on their necks.

LEO's are not the rulers. The people rule the LEO's. We grant the governement license to carry out our affairs.

LEO's only wear a badge, because they must be identified and badged by Gov authority, and must be licensed to carry out their duties.

A citizen needs no license. A citizen has the same authoriy to make arrests as LEO's, that is whenever they see the law being broken. This rings true for any state.

Unfortunately we have given up this right, and handed it part-and-parcel to the LEO's. Now look at Sherrif Joe's approach in Mariposa County, AZ. He has a posse (sp?) made up entriely of armed common citizens. He's got thousands of them. He puts open carrying citizen to use. Gives them a badge.

This is a concept that has to come to Utah.

Now you have badged cockroaches running about like they are gestapo or stasi agents. In many cases they are only wonks for the politicos who run your cities.

I saw the video about you people making complaints to the city counsel. And the counsel claim they had no power over the police department. In the case of a city, this is completely wrong. A counsel has complete authority over the chief and his officers.

The only person that has complete authority over the local PD in your county, is the county sherrif. A sherrif has total control of all policing activites in his county. He is an elected offcial. Though he does not control a city PD--he could make arrests in a city, or anywhere. He is not beholding to anyone. He even has the right to eject federal agents (of all types) from his jurisdiction. His jursidiction includes incorporated townships.

Now if you are worried about getting a few coachroach (constant trouble makers) LEO's in trouble--then you've lost completely.

We have this problem in CA. Police they do absolutely what they are instructed to do. Only problem with that is... so did the SS, so did Gestapo, so did the Stasi, so did the Kameher Rouge... and it was all completely legal in their systems. Currently you are seeing police officer do completely anything they are told... like all these FLDS children being taken away in Texas.

Your LEO's are only foot-soldiers for their politically motivated bosses. They do what they are instructed to do. They do what they are taught to do. It all comes from a higher source. The only motivation for an LEO's is... their paycheck.

If you have the OC laws on your side, use themhard, use themfast, use them often.

Stand up like men.

Do not hesitate.

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wow, this all sounds dead on. I totally agree

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Agreed 100%

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Here you're a bit confused....

The line between modern day police and soldiers is getting blurred.

True the role of a soldier is to kick ass, blow up things and kill.

Some cops nowadays see themselves a "Judge Dread." Judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one.

Cops have to get warrants, etc. But a lot of the time (especially here in Ka), they are acting due to some political mandate, or not acting for the same reasons.

Cop school (and familarize yourself with the term "credentialism") and training fills their heads with a lot of "modern cop" non-sense. Mostly they act as tax collectors (seat belt enforcement, traffic, etc.) not because they wish to enhance public safety, but because they are under political orders to enhance city revenues.

Does a cop in your area make inquiries before "acting under orders" to pick up someone's children because of a suspicion? Or do they just pick them up? Do they just do as they are told?

Do you have police check points in Utah now? What do they ask for? Driver's license? Insurance? ...what will they ask for in the future if ordered? Are you LDS? Are you a Jew? Do you own guns?

Do police confiscate property for infractions completely unrelated to the offense? If you forgot your liscence, do they impoundyour car for 30 days? Do they make you pay $1,200.00 to get it back? Do they completely disregard the 4th amendment? Here in KA they do, and they do it often--because they are ordered to.

Does this happen in Utah now?

Los Angeles is a lost cause. It has been out of control since the 92 riots when the inmates took over the aslyum. The only hope we have is that Yashua nukes the place as he did Soddom and Gomorah.

The police here are out-of-control. They are only instruments for the liberal cockroaches who control them. They will do anything, and I mean anything to keep their paychecks.

About credentialism.... it's a way of making people who workin certain areas "conform," in thought and deeds. Police here in Ka have to be POST certified to wear a badge--but the proceess in many ways is more like a re-education camp.

What I'm saying to you all is that... if OC is legal in Utah, and the police seem to be harrasing OC'rs, then you have to plan as a team, to defeat their team. It will be advisarial (sp?) initially. Perhaps a cop will get reprimended. Perhaps a cop or a police chief will look stupid on TV. Perhaps a city will have to pay out a hefty sum to someone who had their rights violated.... but you have to crack eggs to make a omlet.

Utah is still overwhelmingly a conservative state.

On my trip there last year (first in over 30 years), I was surprised by the urban blight, the presence of Mexican gangs, the presence of a swinger's club in SLC and the outrageous overdevelopment of the SLC area.

Back in the day, when I lived there, if there was a Mexican gang operating openly, they'd instantly have fork up their asses--and be on the next bus south.

How did you people let things get this way? The state legislature will not (as a knee jerk reaction like here in KA) revoke the OC law. But you will have to put some very special pressure on a few specific sore spots in your state.

If you all put your heads together, and address the cockroaches who are harrassing you (in the way I mentioned in my previous post), it will get you a long, long way.

Do any of you remember who the Dannites were?

You guys should be the modern day equivalent.

T