• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Utah gun owners open carry at West Valley City Hall and protest police ignorance of gun laws

abrian8

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
12
Location
Layton, Utah, USA
imported post

"After hearing the group's comments, the city council recommended the citizens file their complaints with the city's Professional Standards Review Board, which investigates concerns against officers."

I didn't think that TJ wanted to file a "complaint". I thought that the whole idea of this was to have WVCPD educate their officers. It sounds like to me that WVC wants to create themselves and their officers a big headache by having complaints filed against them. What a waste of tax dollars. Wouldn't be easier to send a memo to your officers explaining the law. Hey wait, why don't we have a little training session to teach our officers how to handle guys like TJ when we do get the call. Let’s try a bit of civility and professionalism rather than "my badge says so".:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Good job TJ and company.:celebrate
 

xRapidDavex

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
431
Location
, ,
imported post

At least the Salt Lake Tribune got it right. TJ just wants some education among officers.

I don't know how they can call their officers trained since one officer was trying to tell us that open carrying a loaded firearm in Utah WITH a CFP is illegal :?
 

Outsider

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
385
Location
Orem, Utah, USA
imported post

Yeah, I read that SLTIB this morning on it (was looking for it). Very very nice. I'm working on my firearms website and will be putting those articles in there.
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
imported post

Here is the article from the Deseret News.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700235696,00.html

West Valley hears defense of gun-carrying

[font="Verdana,Helvetica,Arial"]By Amy Choate-Nielsen[/font]
[font="Verdana,Helvetica,Arial"]Deseret News[/font] Published: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:03 a.m. MDT

WEST VALLEY CITY — As Travis Deveraux stood at a podium and talked to the West Valley City Council Tuesday night, he looked as comfortable with his Smith and Wesson .40 caliber handgun proudly hanging on his hip as the mayor with his gavel.

It didn't hurt that Deveraux, a West Valley resident, was flanked by 10 other men openly carrying their guns to make a statement in favor of their Second Amendment rights to bear arms. Deveraux, who says he's been handcuffed and harassed because of his gun several times in the last six months in the city, made a plea to West Valley's council to reconsider how the police respond to situations similar to his.

"It's an awesome opportunity to live in a country where we have rights to carry a firearm," Deveraux told the council. "I appreciate the fantastic job the police officers do when they need to respond to dangerous situations, but I must demand that a change needs to be made to address certain issues — to protect our rights."

Deveraux has a license to carry his weapon, but he's been confronted more than once because of it. In December, Deveraux was taking a walk around the block when a Granite school district police officer drew his gun on him and demanded he lie on the ground because the gun was openly displayed.

A few months later, Deveraux was in a bank with his gun in its holster, but police officers were summoned, Deveraux said. The officers threatened to file charges against Deveraux for having the gun but never did. "I don't mind an officer approaching me and asking me questions, but I do mind when they put a gun on me and handcuff me for no apparent reason," Deveraux said. "What they should be afraid of is the criminal with the hidden gun."

Some of Deveraux's supporters said West Valley City has an agenda against those who are legally allowed to openly carry their weapons, but Deveraux enthusiastically pointed out that permitted weapons carriers and police officers are "on the same side."

"We're good guys and cops are good guys," Deveraux said. "We want to help each other out. That's what it's all about."

West Valley City assistant police chief Craig Black said he only heard of Deveraux's complaints on Tuesday. The city's protocol for responding to 911 calls of a person with a gun is to send two cars to the scene, Black said.

The officers don't know what they'll encounter when they arrive, so they are trained to respond in a way that will keep them safe, Black said.

"Our officers don't know what they're responding to when they get that 911 call (reporting a man with a gun)," Black said. "People who are responsible enough to carry guns should understand that they may cause alarm. The officers are going to respond in a manner to protect the community they serve and their own safety."

West Valley city manager Wayne Pyle said the city respects the residents' rights to carry weapons, but there won't likely be any policy changes because of the complaints. Pyle said police officers should always be polite and professional in the way they deal with the public and the department may do more training about laws pertaining to gun permits.

"Training is always an issue," Pyle said. "It's always good to have these issues brought to our attention. If this brings more awareness and knowledge of the law for the officers, then that's a good thing."

E-mail: achoate@desnews.com
 

Snoopy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
17
Location
North Salt Lake, Utah, USA
imported post

The "results" or better yet the "reaction" by the council and mayor is typical of local government... they feel they have to do something rather than just listen, thank the participants, and say "we will take that under advisement" or some other crafty phrase. By directing you/us to file a complaint with the review board, they feel good because they have made some effort to solve the problem. Now don't take this as complaining about the city council... its just my opinion of how elected officials feel that they have to do something to justify you leaving happy.

In my mind, what occurred last night has gone a long way to solving the issue at hand .. would love to be a fly on the wall in the next PD Staff Meeting. The press coverage was very favorable and everyone came off as VERY polite... Great job guys.
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
imported post

And here is the article from the Salt Lake Tribune.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9619824

And updated...

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9619863

Gun-toting citizen says WVC cops harassed him

María Villaseñor
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated:06/17/2008 10:19:57 PM MDT

Posted: 10:18 PM- WEST VALLEY CITY -

With his Smith & Wesson .40 caliber, semi-automatic holstered on his right hip, Travis Deveraux addressed the mayor and City Council on Tuesday.

He has been harassed by West Valley City police for carrying that gun and treated like a criminal, Deveraux said.

"A criminal does not want [police] attention, and they will not openly carry a gun," he said.

With 10 other gun-toting civilians - who came from as far as Bountiful, Santaquin and Lehi - to support him, Deveraux told the council that their police department has consistently overreacted to his gun carrying. And in one occasion last year, he said, the police officers violated his civil rights.

Deveraux said he was walking around his neighborhood to exercise last December, when he was stopped by a Granite School District officer and "was informed that if I touched my gun, I would be killed." The officer called the West Valley City Police Department, Deveraux continued, three squad cars arrived, and he was detained and his gun taken from him - then, after a few minutes, he was released.

Those were violations of his federal and state constitutional rights, said the Swede who became an American citizen this January. And they are civil rights abuses that he has only encountered in West Valley City, Deveraux said. "I don't blame them for being a little bit extra careful," he said, noting that the crime rate is high in Utah's second largest city, "but there's a line they crossed between being a little bit careful and a little bit too careful."

Assistant Police Chief Craig Black said he hadn't been aware of the incident involving Deveraux until hearing about it at the City Council meeting. He said there would be a review of the case by the professional standards board to determined what happened.

Matt Murray of North Salt Lake said he has never been bothered by any police officers for openly carrying his gun. Kevin Jensen of Santaquin said he has had a few police encounters that were "very professional ... they just want to make sure you're not a nutcase." But Jeramiah McDonald of Lehi said he has had problems similar to Deveraux's.

McDonald said that because he is only 19 years old, he can't apply for a concealed weapons permit and his only option is to openly carry his guns. Because he felt police officers violated his civil rights, McDonald has filed a lawsuit.

Deveraux said he doesn't want to sue anyone, or get an officer fired or fined. He wants West Valley City officers to be trained, or get more training on gun rights.

Mayor Dennis Nordfelt encouraged Deveraux to file a complaint with the professional standards review board, which oversees any resident problems with the police department.

Black said his police officers are trained on gun laws.
 

packingmama

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
317
Location
, Utah, USA
imported post

I thought the articles were great and the news coverage was pretty good as well. I am glad my husband was able to be there and to support you TJ.
 

tarzan1888

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
1,435
Location
, , USA
imported post

Thanks guys.



I am so proud of the bunch of you that I am about ready to bust all my buttons.



Tarzan
 

Attachments

  • Clapping.gif
    Clapping.gif
    3.9 KB · Views: 447

Bflamante

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Bountiful, Utah, USA
imported post

TJ, I think you should be nominated for the review board!:what:

The members of the Citizens' Review Board serve for a two year term and are nominated from the community. Nominations are accepted by the West Valley City Manager and appointment is made by the West Valley City Council. The Review Board's chairperson is selected by the members of the board.
Here is the link for the Review Board for West Valley City.

http://www.wvc-ut.gov/index.asp?NID=132

I give them kudos for having an easy, user friendly site where citizens can report an incident. They need to hear from anyone that has been mistreated during a terry stop. If you can post your gripe here you can send it to them as well. Lets keep this ball moving.
 

thx997303

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
2,712
Location
Lehi, Utah, USA
imported post

McDonald said that because he is only 19 years old, he can't apply for a concealed weapons permit and his only option is to openly carry his guns. Because he felt police officers violated his civil rights, McDonald has filed a lawsuit.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Damn media, I never said that I had filed a lawsuit. Crazy media, making up crazy things.

I only said that i had a problem, but that I wouldn't comment on it.
 

swillden

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,189
Location
Firestone, Colorado
imported post

thx997303 wrote:
McDonald said that because he is only 19 years old, he can't apply for a concealed weapons permit and his only option is to openly carry his guns. Because he felt police officers violated his civil rights, McDonald has filed a lawsuit.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Damn media, I never said that I had filed a lawsuit. Crazy media, making up crazy things.

I only said that i had a problem, but that I wouldn't comment on it.
Darn. I was hoping they'd gotten that right and that you HAD filed a lawsuit. From what little I know about your case (very little) it seems like a reasonable thing to do.
 
Top