Katrina Part 2 ???

Thundar · Jun 19, 2008

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Sheriff wrote:

Sorry. I still think wishing DEATH upon a police officer who is simply obeying unlawful orders is pretty far over the line. I'm not saying the cops are right in what they are doing, they are just innocent pawns and are afraid of losing their jobs and benefit packages if they don't go out there and do what their superiors tell them to do.

There is a line that cannot be crossed. When a government agent uses tyranical means to harm otherwise innocent civilians, where is the line?

Is it when they order you from your house at gunpoint?

Is it when they unlawfully try to disarm you and leave you defenseless?

Where is the line between patriot and criminal?

Sheriff you usually seem reasonable, but police officershave taken a sacred vow to uphold the constitution to become police officers. Do you think that the police that violate constitutional rights under threat of violence are not culpable because they don't want to loose their government benefits package?

Use offirearms is a serious matter, but that is what the 2A provides me with to root out tyranny. The constitution does not provide for an NFL squad to reorient tyrants.

I prey that I will always live in a free land and that I do not have to harm any human being.

Sheriff · Jun 19, 2008

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Let me try this again..... I am not going to roll over and play dead. If a bunch of jack booted thugs in uniforms kick my front door in and perform clearly illegal activities, I am going to let them do their thing.... and then sue them and the department.

This is the problem..... people rolling over and playing dead. I do not recall one person in Louisiana filing suit against the police and their illegal activities.

At the same time, I am not going to shoot and kill uniformed police officers entering my home. It's a no-win situation if you do. It shouldn't be, but it is in today's society.

Dustin · Jun 19, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

i agree, and i didn't say those people SHOULD kill them (or attempt) I said they DESERVED DEATH.

which they do.

I've seen and been apart of some stupid screw ups in combat overseas. Sometimes you get caught up in the moment.

Should I die for these mistakes ?

Although I feel what happen was extremely repulsive, I still think punishment other than Death is appropriate. I kow some of those LEO's. Some where so confused they didn't know what the heck was going on.

Eitherway they could have said "NO, I'M NOT GOING TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS VIOLATION."

I suspect those who thru their badges out the window as they were leaving might have been the one's I'm refering to. Maybe.

mobeewan · Jun 19, 2008

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Sheriff wrote:

Sorry. I still think wishing DEATH upon a police officer who is simply obeying unlawful orders is pretty far over the line. I'm not saying the cops are right in what they are doing, they are just innocent pawns and are afraid of losing their jobs and benefit packages if they don't go out there and do what their superiors tell them to do.

Innocent pawns should go out and push other innocent pawns aroundso they don't have to worry about loosing their job and bennies???????

If their superiors tell them to go out and kill someone should they so they don't have to worry about loosing their job and bennies???????

thx997303 · Jun 19, 2008

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Someone needs to do something, The line must be drawn.

They are not innocent, they have decided to follow an unlawful order.

Doug Huffman · Jun 20, 2008

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I think 'just following orders' was covered at Nuremburg.

sv_libertarian · Jun 20, 2008

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Ugh, yes lets advocate shooting cops some more on this forum. Lovely. Just friggin' lovely.

I don't know how I would deal with some sort of forcible entry like this. I live on my sailboat, so flooding really doesn't worry me, and the coast guard already has the right to board my vessel to check for complaince with federal law.

That said the best solution to these "strike teams" is for citizens to pass meaningful legislation in their states to ensure it can't happen.

I don't know if it could happen in Washington, our privacy protections are much stronger than most states as the state Supreme Court recently reminded some Lacey Police Officers who obtained a search warrant based on a drug tip from a home repairman. Long story short, cops made a mistake and looked where they shouldn't have in order to get a warrant, and the whole thing was thrown out based on strong constitutional protections. Still wouldn't hurt to lobby here for some laws to prevent "strike teams" or such.

But jeez people, the gung ho attitude here is disturbing sometimes. If you want to advocate shooting cops who break down your door, do it in private please.

johnnyb · Jun 20, 2008

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do you advocate shooting other criminals when they break down your door? if you do, you're a hypocrit. because both parties are doing something illegal.

in washington you do not have the right to defend your property with deadly force. in states with "castle" laws... its relevant. if the police bust into your house illegally, why should they have special protections compared to the common criminal.

sv_libertarian wrote:

Ugh, yes lets advocate shooting cops some more on this forum. Lovely. Just friggin' lovely.

I don't know how I would deal with some sort of forcible entry like this. I live on my sailboat, so flooding really doesn't worry me, and the coast guard already has the right to board my vessel to check for complaince with federal law.

That said the best solution to these "strike teams" is for citizens to pass meaningful legislation in their states to ensure it can't happen.

I don't know if it could happen in Washington, our privacy protections are much stronger than most states as the state Supreme Court recently reminded some Lacey Police Officers who obtained a search warrant based on a drug tip from a home repairman. Long story short, cops made a mistake and looked where they shouldn't have in order to get a warrant, and the whole thing was thrown out based on strong constitutional protections. Still wouldn't hurt to lobby here for some laws to prevent "strike teams" or such.

But jeez people, the gung ho attitude here is disturbing sometimes. If you want to advocate shooting cops who break down your door, do it in private please.

Gunslinger · Jun 20, 2008

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Sheriff wrote:

Sorry. I still think wishing DEATH upon a police officer who is simply obeying unlawful orders is pretty far over the line. I'm not saying the cops are right in what they are doing, they are just innocent pawns and are afraid of losing their jobs and benefit packages if they don't go out there and do what their superiors tell them to do.

Usually agree with you, Sheriff, but not this time. The Nazi death camp guards used that excuse. It didn't work for them and it doesn't hold up now. If someone kicks in my front door, cop or just another type of thug without a badge, I'll put the first one between his eyes, in case he's wearing body armor. They don't suspend the constitution just because it rains.

sv_libertarian · Jun 20, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

do you advocate shooting other criminals when they break down your door? if you do, you're a hypocrit. because both parties are doing something illegal.

in washington you do not have the right to defend your property with deadly force. in states with "castle" laws... its relevant. if the police bust into your house illegally, why should they have special protections compared to the common criminal.

The point I am trying to make is taking meaningful steps to ensure that this doesn't happen elsewhere before it becomes needed to decide if to shoot invaders or not.

And I don't have a door per se to break down. But if a criminal wants to board my boat, open my hatch, remove the companionway slats and walk down the step into the main cabin, I'm more than willing to draw a gun and say "freeze" at that point the crook will probaby realize to advance any further they will have to either drop the folding leaf on my table, or slide down the starboard settee to my v-berth, at which point I will shoot them.

It's easy to thump your chest and talking about shooting .gov agents, but how about making sure that is the LAST and FINAL option? I think there are some bypassed steps here.

johnnyb · Jun 20, 2008

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you have a good chance of going to prison in washington state for shooting someone who simply is "breaking into" your house or boat or whatever.

how much more specific and meaningfull can the 4th amendment and the entire bill of rights be? i don't really see how you can improve on it.

sv_libertarian wrote:

johnnyb wrote:

do you advocate shooting other criminals when they break down your door? if you do, you're a hypocrit. because both parties are doing something illegal.

in washington you do not have the right to defend your property with deadly force. in states with "castle" laws... its relevant. if the police bust into your house illegally, why should they have special protections compared to the common criminal.

Click to expand...

The point I am trying to make is taking meaningful steps to ensure that this doesn't happen elsewhere before it becomes needed to decide if to shoot invaders or not.

And I don't have a door per se to break down. But if a criminal wants to board my boat, open my hatch, remove the companionway slats and walk down the step into the main cabin, I'm more than willing to draw a gun and say "freeze" at that point the crook will probaby realize to advance any further they will have to either drop the folding leaf on my table, or slide down the starboard settee to my v-berth, at which point I will shoot them.

It's easy to thump your chest and talking about shooting .gov agents, but how about making sure that is the LAST and FINAL option? I think there are some bypassed steps here.

Doug Huffman · Jun 20, 2008

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A local talk radio show (from across the Lake in Michigan) was ranting on hypocrisy today, accusing alternative energy advocates still on the grid, still using fossil-fueled transportation of any sort or driving their Toy Piouses of hypocrisy. Self-proclaimed vegetarians or, worse, vegans sneaking a burger of hypocrisy.

Are CC advocates hypocrites to the Second Amendment? I say yes because there is no gray to "shall not be infringed."

johnnyb · Jun 20, 2008

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i agree, but people like me who believe this are called "crazy" and "wacko" even by people here. we even have our posts deleted!

Doug Huffman wrote:

A local talk radio show (from across the Lake in Michigan) was ranting on hypocrisy today, accusing alternative energy advocates still on the grid, still using fossil-fueled transportation of any sort or driving their Toy Piouses of hypocrisy. Self-proclaimed vegetarians or, worse, vegans sneaking a burger of hypocrisy.

Are CC advocates hypocrites to the Second Amendment? I say yes because there is no gray to "shall not be infringed."

Sheriff · Jun 20, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

i agree, but people like me who believe this are called "crazy" and "wacko" even by people here. we even have our posts deleted!

Your posts weren't really deleted.

They still exist since they were included as quotes in other people's posts.

johnnyb · Jun 20, 2008

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... my post is gone isn't it

Sheriff wrote:

johnnyb wrote:

i agree, but people like me who believe this are called "crazy" and "wacko" even by people here. we even have our posts deleted!

Click to expand...

Your posts weren't really deleted.

They still exist since they were included as quotes in other people's posts.

Thundar · Jun 20, 2008

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Ugh, yes lets advocate shooting cops some more on this forum. Lovely. Just friggin' lovely.

I don't know how I would deal with some sort of forcible entry like this. I live on my sailboat, so flooding really doesn't worry me, and the coast guard already has the right to board my vessel to check for complaince with federal law.

That said the best solution to these "strike teams" is for citizens to pass meaningful legislation in their states to ensure it can't happen.

I don't know if it could happen in Washington, our privacy protections are much stronger than most states as the state Supreme Court recently reminded some Lacey Police Officers who obtained a search warrant based on a drug tip from a home repairman. Long story short, cops made a mistake and looked where they shouldn't have in order to get a warrant, and the whole thing was thrown out based on strong constitutional protections. Still wouldn't hurt to lobby here for some laws to prevent "strike teams" or such.

But jeez people, the gung ho attitude here is disturbing sometimes. If you want to advocate shooting cops who break down your door, do it in private please.

The other side of the coin:

The attitude of some on this forum advocating submission to unconstitutional assaults is lovely. Just friggin' lovely.

I do know how I would deal with some sort of forcible entry like this.

That said the best solution to these "strike teams" is for citizens to stand up to tyranny in their states to ensure it can't happen.

But jeez people, thepermissive attitude here is disturbing sometimes. If you want to advocate not opposingpetty tyrantswho break down your door, do it in private please.

johnnyb · Jun 20, 2008

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a "libertarian" advocating more laws... :uhoh:

we already have the 4th amendment, we don't need "more laws"

thx997303 · Jun 20, 2008

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I am not neccesarily advocating shooting cops. I was merely stating that The police who do this are breaking the law, therefore they are criminals, and that we as a people need to draw the proverbial "line in the sand"

There shouldn't have to be laws against it, there is the constitution.

sv_libertarian · Jun 20, 2008

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johnnyb wrote:

a "libertarian" advocating more laws... :uhoh:

we already have the 4th amendment, we don't need "more laws"

Never mind. I will deal with home invasion buy government thugs if/when it happens to me.

I'm in favor of meaningful effort now to make sure it is less likely to happen in the future, be it seeking court cases to reinforce the 4th, or passing additional legislation to reinforce the 4th.

Meanwhile I'm not going to run around thumping my chest saying what I'm gonna do when "the man" breaks in.

There are better places to have that sort of conversation than a public internet forum.

Katrina Part 2 ???

Thundar

Regular Member

Sheriff

Regular Member

Dustin

Regular Member

mobeewan

Regular Member

thx997303

Regular Member

Doug Huffman

Banned

sv_libertarian

State Researcher

johnnyb

Banned

Gunslinger

Regular Member

sv_libertarian

State Researcher

johnnyb

Banned

Doug Huffman

Banned

johnnyb

Banned

Sheriff

Regular Member

johnnyb

Banned

Thundar

Regular Member

johnnyb

Banned

thx997303

Regular Member

sv_libertarian

State Researcher