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Thread: Use of deadly force question?

  1. #1
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    Hi! I'm new to the forums -- my husband recently joined and we got into a discussion about the purpose of carrying a firearm. According to Utah law when is it legal for you to pull your firearm? When is it legal to fire it?

    We recently moved from FL which had the homestead law which provides the right to use deadly force upon anyone I felt threatened of in my home or car - whether I had originally invited them in or not.

    Thanks for all your help!

  2. #2
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    swjr wrote:
    Hi! I'm new to the forums -- my husband recently joined and we got into a discussion about the purpose of carrying a firearm.* According to Utah law when is it legal for you to pull your firearm?* When is it legal to fire it?*

    We recently moved from FL which had the homestead law which provides the right to use deadly force upon anyone I felt threatened of in my home or car - whether I had originally invited them in or not.

    Thanks for all your help!
    Hi, and welcome to the forum...

    For a nice resource, check out this thread.http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/11475.html

    I also recommend getting a copy of "Utah Gun Law's 3rd Edition" by Mitch Vilos. It's a great down to earth breakdown of all the gun laws in the state.

  3. #3
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    Who's your husband? Welcome to the forum, I hope this site is a good reference to you and that you feel free to ask anything on your mind. Glad to have you, stick around!

  4. #4
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    GeneticsDave wrote:
    Who's your husband? Welcome to the forum, I hope this site is a good reference to you and that you feel free to ask anything on your mind. Glad to have you, stick around!
    My husband is scorpioajr


    and thanks for the link!

  5. #5
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    swjr wrote:
    We recently moved from FL which had the homestead law which provides the right to use deadly force upon anyone I felt threatened of in my home or car - whether I had originally invited them in or not.
    Welcome! I second the suggestion to look at the other thread, and to get a copy of Vilos' excellent book, but in brief:

    Utah's law isn't quite as good as Florida's in this respect. Your car is not an extension of your home, so the "street" laws apply there. In your home, you do have extra protection, but it's not going to apply if you invited the bad guy in. Basically, if someone breaks into you home and you shoot them, the law says that you are presumed for both criminal and civil purposes to have acted reasonably.

    On the street, you have no duty to retreat in Utah, and you can shoot in defense of yourself or others, or to prevent the commission of a "forcible felony". The list of "forcible felonies" is defined in state law, but it generally includes any felony that involves force or the threat of force. So, robbery, burglary, rape, etc. all qualify. Also, you don't have to be the target of the felony, but you do have to witness it, and you can only shoot to prevent it. Can't shoot the robber as he's fleeing.

    On drawing your gun -- don't draw unless you're going to shoot. Drawing a gun on someone is assault with a deadly weapon (even if you don't shoot -- drawing is a threat and a threat of assault IS assault in Utah), so you need to be justified in using deadly force before you draw.

    One other issue that may be different (I'm not sure) is that deadly force is not generally justified in defense of property. You can't shoot someone for stealing your car unless you or someone else is in it.

    On carry locations, in Utah you can carry anywhere except a federal facility, a secure facility or a church or private residence whose owner prohibits it. You don't need to ask permission of the church or residence owner, it's on them to notify you of the prohibition either via a state web site (only the LDS church is listed there) or by posting signs or informing you directly. With a CCW (from any state) you can carry in schools, including universities. Utah has full pre-emption, so no city, state or county entity can impose stricter regulations.

    Hope this helps. Note that IANAL, but I'm pretty sure this is accurate. I'm sure if I made any mistakes, I'll be corrected

  6. #6
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    swillden wrote:
    swjr wrote:
    We recently moved from FL which had the homestead law which provides the right to use deadly force upon anyone I felt threatened of in my home or car - whether I had originally invited them in or not.
    Welcome! I second the suggestion to look at the other thread, and to get a copy of Vilos' excellent book, but in brief:

    Utah's law isn't quite as good as Florida's in this respect. Your car is not an extension of your home, so the "street" laws apply there. In your home, you do have extra protection, but it's not going to apply if you invited the bad guy in. Basically, if someone breaks into you home and you shoot them, the law says that you are presumed for both criminal and civil purposes to have acted reasonably.

    On the street, you have no duty to retreat in Utah, and you can shoot in defense of yourself or others, or to prevent the commission of a "forcible felony". The list of "forcible felonies" is defined in state law, but it generally includes any felony that involves force or the threat of force. So, robbery, burglary, rape, etc. all qualify. Also, you don't have to be the target of the felony, but you do have to witness it, and you can only shoot to prevent it. Can't shoot the robber as he's fleeing.

    On drawing your gun -- don't draw unless you're going to shoot. Drawing a gun on someone is assault with a deadly weapon (even if you don't shoot -- drawing is a threat and a threat of assault IS assault in Utah), so you need to be justified in using deadly force before you draw.

    One other issue that may be different (I'm not sure) is that deadly force is not generally justified in defense of property. You can't shoot someone for stealing your car unless you or someone else is in it.

    On carry locations, in Utah you can carry anywhere except a federal facility, a secure facility or a church or private residence whose owner prohibits it. You don't need to ask permission of the church or residence owner, it's on them to notify you of the prohibition either via a state web site (only the LDS church is listed there) or by posting signs or informing you directly. With a CCW (from any state) you can carry in schools, including universities. Utah has full pre-emption, so no city, state or county entity can impose stricter regulations.

    Hope this helps. Note that IANAL, but I'm pretty sure this is accurate. I'm sure if I made any mistakes, I'll be corrected
    That would be the only Grey area I see.

  7. #7
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    swillden wrote:
    swjr wrote:
    We recently moved from FL which had the homestead law which provides the right to use deadly force upon anyone I felt threatened of in my home or car - whether I had originally invited them in or not.
    Welcome! I second the suggestion to look at the other thread, and to get a copy of Vilos' excellent book, but in brief:
    When I took my carry class from Mitch Vilos he talked about the legal concept of lethal force. Super Dell was not convicted of his altercation with the mob of neighbors who were mad at him for speeding thru their neighborhood (70+ mph). He drew his firearm when one citizen approached with a substantial sized rock. What saved Shanzy was that the muzzle never crossed the offender. He simply drew and had the pistol at the ready. NEVER point the gun at an individual until you are ready to pull the trigger. If you are not going to pull the trigger then dont point, rather have it at the ready (muzzle down). Pointing vs at the ready can be the difference between being Bubbas girlfriend in an 8x10 cell and going home to fight another day. Mitch talkes about all of this in detail in his book. The best $20 I have ever spent. I would never carry, especailly not open carry without spending a sunday afternoon with his book.

    Welcome to the board. You will have to come to the next social dinner.

  8. #8
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    :celebrate

    swjr wrote:
    GeneticsDave wrote:
    Who's your husband? Welcome to the forum, I hope this site is a good reference to you and that you feel free to ask anything on your mind. Glad to have you, stick around!
    My husband is scorpioajr


    and thanks for the link!

  9. #9
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    IANAL but I don't think you can use deadly force to protect property such as objects. You can only use it to protect your home (USC 76-2-405) and also real property (ie land, realestate, etc) (USC 76-2-407). So you can't shoot someone stealing your car or your ipod. Below is a link to the law about using force to protect property.

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_02_040600.htm

    UCS 76-2-406

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