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Thread: Respone from a Chesterfield Police Officer

  1. #1
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    Just thought I'd throw this out for any comments or possible "like" stories. I play in a band with a Chesterfield County Police Officer, and thought I'd see what his feeling was on OC.

    My e-mail to him:

    "Since you are a Chesterfield County Police Officer, I thought I’d ask your advice.



    I’m sure you are aware that I have my CCW and that, for the most part, I carry all the time. At this point there are areas that are prohibited for concealed carry, and I don’t violate the rules. (I. E. Schools, restaurants that serve alcohol, etc.) Some of these places are legal for open carry though.



    There is an organization that promotes Open Carry, (VACDL and OpenCarry.org) which in the state of VA is legal. In your experience, what level of scrutiny might I expect if I chose to Open Carry in Chesterfield? I realize that, in no way shape or form, are you providing “legal” council. I guess the real question is, just how well versed in this part of the VA code are your fellow officers. I certainly don’t have any problem providing ID and answering questions, but I’d also like to not be unnecessarily detained!"

    His response to me:

    "i can tell ya , open carry is a problem, unless yer on a back rd and its deer season. i know the law but in this day and age id stay with the concealed permit and its rules. its gonna cause alot of headache if you dont... the good thing is i can carry anywhere i choose, being sworn. "





    I welcome your thoughts! And also welcome views on how to best educate the LEO's that might take offens to OC here in Chesterfield!


    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

  2. #2
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    Well a few harassed citizens, a few letters in officers files that prohibit promotions and they will learn to ship up. Pull something like Norfolk and the city will feel the pinch.

    Just because they don't like it doesn't give them permission to harass you.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    With an attitude like that, maybe he should be sworn AT.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    His response to me:

    "i can tell ya , open carry is a problem, unless yer on a back rd and its deer season. i know the law but in this day and age id stay with the concealed permit and its rules. its gonna cause alot of headache if you dont... the good thing is i can carry anywhere i choose, being sworn. "


    I welcome your thoughts! And also welcome views on how to best educate the LEO's that might take offens to OC here in Chesterfield!

    Based on my own experiences, your cop buddy is in a very small minority of the Chesterfield PD force. I have had only one "incident" where they asked me to disarm, and that was when I called them on a thug who threatened to kill me then backed down when he realized I was armed & he was not. They wanted me to disarm when I did a field ID - cop held it in his hand afgter I cleared it then returned it after we stepped away. I immediately reloaded & holstered & he had no problems.

    I know several others, as well as observing many more, who OC without any problems. These are folks I have seen in the presence of CCPD officers - everything from passing by walking in parking lots to groups standing around late at night in shopping centers to flagging down a cop to report an accident/stalled vehicle in the road, to various restaurants where cops were eating & OC-er(s) came in, or vice-versa.

    How about you set up a meeting with your cop buddy and a few of us? I, for one, would like to hear his explanation of "in this day and age ". I promise to try real hard not to argue with him - just to hear his side of things.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  5. #5
    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    I have never had a problem with any Chesterfield PD officers. I am friends with one who has been on the force for a while (he's a sergeant). He sees me OCing a couple times a week.

    Not really an OC incident but I had an interesting encounter in Chesterfield when I got pulled over last year. The officer approached my window and asked for my license and registration. I told him my license was in my back pocket. Then I said that I had a CHP and my firearm was in the glove box... and so was my registration. I asked if he still wanted the registration card. He said no and just took my license. The entire stop was completely professional on his part and the only awkwardness came from me having to explain why I couldn't give him my registration. I have sinced moved my registration/insurance to my sun visor.

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    I've haven't had any problems with Chesterfield PD and that's my county of residence.

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    ...saids someone who joined 7 days ago with only 6 posts.


    Sorry, but something is fishy about this post.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    Well excuse me....guess I need to wait until I'm "older" to post. Sorry to have wasted your time. Guess perhaps I should stick to USCCA. They even allow you to post onthe first day without finding anything "fishy".

    I will say that I "was" picking up good information here, but if this is the attitude of the membership, I doubt I will spend much more time "lurking" and/or posting about things that are of interest to me.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

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    haha, are you going to take that from a guy who has 41 posts? LOL

    Post counts don't mean much to me, it's all about content.

  10. #10
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    Sorry. I just don't take kindly to someone basically calling me a liar. If I didn't respect this particular officer's opinion, I wouldn't have bothered to ask him the question. And his response was the reason I asked about how best to educate him (and any other LEO who might have the same opinion).

    Perhaps it is a waste of time. I can always just go back to my previous mantra....if I don't have to pass through a metal detector, IWILL carry concealed. And if it comes down to the BG getting away with something bad or my having to face the consequences of possibly being somewhere concealed carry is prohibited, I will face the consequences knowing I did the right thing by stopping the BG.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

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    Regular Member Harper1227's Avatar
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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    Well excuse me....guess I need to wait until I'm "older" to post. Sorry to have wasted your time. Guess perhaps I should stick to USCCA. They even allow you to post onthe first day without finding anything "fishy".

    I will say that I "was" picking up good information here, but if this is the attitude of the membership, I doubt I will spend much more time "lurking" and/or posting about things that are of interest to me.
    Don't worry, and don't let someone turn you off to a good site. This place is a wealth of information. I'm not much "older" than you but I have had a lot of great experiences on this site and meeting some of the members in person.

    You have to learn to take things in stride. i thought I was going to have problems after like my second post, but I realize that people on here are just trying to educate even if we all have different styles and opinions. Don't let it get to you. You're as welcome here as anyone else.

    Welcome to the forum and come back anytime you have interesting info!

  12. #12
    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    "i can tell ya , open carry is a problem, unless yer on a back rd and its deer season. i know the law but in this day and age id stay with the concealed permit and its rules. its gonna cause alot of headache if you dont... the good thing is i can carry anywhere i choose, being sworn. "
    Pls ask your friend: [and excuse my sarcasm]

    1:Why open carry "is a problem". Ask him to cite specific real examples where he encountered someone OC and it caused a problem under the law and not a problem with his opinions.

    2:Why its a "good thing" that special priviledges are conferred upon him that the serfs he is paid to protect don't recieve.

    3: Is it customary to hunt deer with handguns on back roads? Do the [handgun] deer hunters have permission from landowners on both sides of the road to hunt? Will your friend charge them with § 18.2-286for shooting from the road?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    the good thing is i can carry anywhere i choose, being sworn. "

    Ask him;
    How this helps me?

    Why is open carry is a problem?

    Are you prepared to be sued and have charges filed againstyou for violating peoples rights?
    [line]


    Sounds to me like this person has an elitist attitude.

    I visit Chesterfiled at least twice a yr with no issues, two officers live a few doors down from my wife's mother.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  14. #14
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    ThunderRanch wrote:
    "i can tell ya , open carry is a problem, unless yer on a back rd and its deer season. i know the law but in this day and age id stay with the concealed permit and its rules. its gonna cause alot of headache if you dont... the good thing is i can carry anywhere i choose, being sworn. "
    Pls ask your friend: [and excuse my sarcasm]

    1:Why open carry "is a problem". Ask him to cite specific real examples where he encountered someone OC and it caused a problem under the law and not a problem with his opinions.

    2:Why its a "good thing" that special priviledges are conferred upon him that the serfs he is paid to protect don't recieve.

    3: Is it customary to hunt deer with handguns on back roads? Do the [handgun] deer hunters have permission from landowners on both sides of the road to hunt? Will your friend charge them with § 18.2-286for shooting from the road?
    I have posed the questions to him, slightly reworded to remove sarcasm, and I'll let you know what he says. In this follow up e-mail I did try to emphasize the fact that my main goal is to be as educated as I possibly can from both perspectives.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    ThunderRanch wrote:
    "i can tell ya , open carry is a problem, unless yer on a back rd and its deer season. i know the law but in this day and age id stay with the concealed permit and its rules. its gonna cause alot of headache if you dont... the good thing is i can carry anywhere i choose, being sworn. "
    Pls ask your friend: [and excuse my sarcasm]

    1:Why open carry "is a problem". Ask him to cite specific real examples where he encountered someone OC and it caused a problem under the law and not a problem with his opinions.

    2:Why its a "good thing" that special priviledges are conferred upon him that the serfs he is paid to protect don't recieve.

    3: Is it customary to hunt deer with handguns on back roads? Do the [handgun] deer hunters have permission from landowners on both sides of the road to hunt? Will your friend charge them with § 18.2-286for shooting from the road?
    It seems many CC LEOs are complaining of low pay. Here's a letter from Kevin P. Carroll, President of the Chesterfield Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge # 47:


    [SNIP]
    "I want to thank all of the citizens that have spoken out about the police pay and retention issue. It pleases me to see people exercising their First Amendment right to free speech. As a police officer, it is important to know that we are appreciated for the work that we do. I know that your police officers welcomed the needed support from the community.

    "I have lobbied in the General Assembly over the last two years on a variety of issues. It's a funny thing about politicians. Generally speaking, they do support strong public safety whether they are Republican, Democrat or Independent. They just don't want to spend money on it."

    Well, he specifically lobbied to close the gun-show loophole and for the Miller arrest for any misdemeanor bills. Not very helpful to Virginians who carry.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Repeater wrote:
    It seems many CC LEOs are complaining of low pay. Here's a letter from Kevin P. Carroll, President of the Chesterfield Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge # 47:


    [SNIP]
    "I want to thank all of the citizens that have spoken out about the police pay and retention issue. It pleases me to see people exercising their First Amendment right to free speech. As a police officer, it is important to know that we are appreciated for the work that we do. I know that your police officers welcomed the needed support from the community.

    "I have lobbied in the General Assembly over the last two years on a variety of issues. It's a funny thing about politicians. Generally speaking, they do support strong public safety whether they are Republican, Democrat or Independent. They just don't want to spend money on it."

    Well, he specifically lobbied to close the gun-show loophole and for the Miller arrest for any misdemeanor bills. Not very helpful to Virginians who carry.
    Oh, and there's a shortage of police officers for Chesterfield:

    Reassignments cause frustration

    The county's shortage of officers is forcing the police department to play its own version of musical chairs as it shifts manpower from specialized crime units to cover more critical patrol operations. There are currently 31 vacancies, attributed mostly to the department offering the lowest starting salaries in the region and compression in the pay scale.


    "I've got a bucket with a hole in it, and I've got to stop the water from running out," says Police Chief Thierry Dupuis, describing his current challenge of trying to keep officers from leaving the department for better paying jobs elsewhere.

    Well, Chief Dupuis supported closing the gun-show loophole, too. Perhaps his attitude percolates down.






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    Repeater wrote:
    SNIP Well, Chief Dupuis supported closing the gun-show loophole, too.
    Then, he needs a shovel, not a bucket.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Do the Chesterfirld folks have open carry dinners?

    If so, perhaps you could attend one with your officer friend.



  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    It would be a lot better if you posted his name.

    I know, it'd ruin your relationship, it wouldn't do much for his career either...but if it didn't change his attitude, it would go a long way towards improving his professionalism.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    DrMark wrote:
    Do the Chesterfirld folks have open carry dinners?

    If so, perhaps you could attend one with your officer friend.

    Look for the Richmond OC Dinner threads. We just had our June dinner and there was an interesting discussion http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/11546.html of the difference betyween "dropping a dime" on someone and "dropping a quarter".

    Good friends, good food, hlh got okra to take home, and we'regoing to do it again next month unless the river rises. New blood is always welcome - we do not make newbies buy ammo (although it has been tried once or twice ).

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  21. #21
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    DDrake wrote:
    ...saids someone who joined 7 days ago with only 6 posts.


    Sorry, but something is fishy about this post.
    nothing too fishy to me. I was talking to a chesterfield po in one of the local gun stores after the manassas and danbus incidents. nice guy he said he new OC was legal that his SGT would have had his ass in a sling if he tried to arrest or detain someone for OC but that he personally thought OC for the avg citizen was...his words now..."stupid"....he went on to espouse how his training and "bat belt"(my word) of gear would help to keep him from being disarmed bya bad guy but the avg joe would be defenceless.

    So no even though CPD knows that OC is legal and doesn't routinely harass people over it I can see where the OP's cop could say what he did.

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    Wasn't trying to offend, but its not uncommon for people to go onto ar15 and thehighroad trying to push gun-owner buttons by making up stories. The reason why I am skeptical is because this officer writes like a 12 year old on AIM. Not to mention, the response highlights an elitist response, which someone subconsciously may have but rarely would express.

    In other words, if I wanted to create controversy... I would writes something similar.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    Well, in his defense, the response was not from a computer, and I know if I'm "texting" an e-mail response I tend to ustilize the shortcuts as well. One other note, he is definitely what you would consider a "good old boy" and the spelling and grammar are really in keeping with the way he talks! He's a great guy, a good officer, and a good friend.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Repeater wrote:
    It seems many CC LEOs are complaining of low pay. Here's a letter from Kevin P. Carroll, President of the Chesterfield Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge # 47:


    [SNIP]
    "I want to thank all of the citizens that have spoken out about the police pay and retention issue. It pleases me to see people exercising their First Amendment right to free speech. As a police officer, it is important to know that we are appreciated for the work that we do. I know that your police officers welcomed the needed support from the community.

    "I have lobbied in the General Assembly over the last two years on a variety of issues. It's a funny thing about politicians. Generally speaking, they do support strong public safety whether they are Republican, Democrat or Independent. They just don't want to spend money on it."

    Well, he specifically lobbied to close the gun-show loophole and for the Miller arrest for any misdemeanor bills. Not very helpful to Virginians who carry.
    So it pleases him to see people exercising their First Amendment rights but he has some level of opposition to The People exercising their Second Amendment right? I missed the amendment or clause that says, "And the Government and their agents shall have have the right and authority to pick and choose which parts of this Constitution they shall enforce or follow."
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Sheriff wrote:
    ThunderRanch wrote:
    Well, in his defense.... the spelling and grammar are really in keeping with the way he talks! He's a great guy, a good officer, and a good friend.
    Just ain't real bright, is he?

    Sort of my thinking.
    He's a dumb son of a bitch! Feel free to quote me.

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