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Thread: Felony arrest in Albuquerque for Open Carry in Giant gas station

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    http://www.abqjournal.com/west/19115233W1NOCOP1906-19-08.htm

    --

    In the Albuquerque West Side Journal this morning (June 18, 2008) there is a piece titled "Cops: Man Had Gun In Store". Before it explains that he was arrested for unlawfully carrying (open carry) of a firearm in a licensed liquor establishment, it says the following:

    "In the latest incident, shortly after 10 p.m. Tuesday, 49 year old Robert Lark walked into the Giant gas station at 201 Coors NW wearing a "police-style duty belt" complete with a holster holding a high-powered Glock handgun, according to a criminal complaint filed in Metropolitan Court. It also says: "Police-issue gun belts and .40 caliber pistols aren't typically what gas station clerks and fast food employees are hoping to see on customers." It said it was unclear if Lark had a permit for the pistol. They mention that a similar "open carry" police-style duty belt was on a man that robbed a McDonalds on June 3rd.

    No mention is made that open carry is legal as long as you do not go into certain places........


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    Do you have a link?

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    Is a high-powered Glock the same as a high-powered rifle?

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    Here is the full story plus the link.

    http://www.abqjournal.com/west/19115...1906-19-08.htm

    Cops: Man Had Gun in Store

    By Jeff Proctor
    Journal Staff Writer
    Police-issue gun belts and .40-caliber pistols aren't typically what gas station clerks and fast-food employees are hoping to see on customers.
    Especially if those customers aren't cops.
    But twice in as many weeks, Joe Citizen has walked into an Albuquerque establishment sporting police-type paraphernalia around the waist. Not surprisingly, both incidents , which police say are likely unrelated although similar, caused a stir.
    In the latest incident, shortly after 10 p.m. Tuesday, 49-year-old Robert Lark walked into the Giant gas station at 201 Coors NW wearing a “police-style duty belt” complete with a holster holding a high-powered Glock handgun, according to a criminal complaint filed in Metropolitan Court.
    “Concerned security guards” called police, who on arriving at the store, disarmed Lark and took him into custody, the complaint says. Lark's vehicle was towed, along with the duty belt.
    In an interview with police, Lark said he knew he should not have entered the store armed to the teeth, the complaint states. But because the security guards did not confront him about the weapon, he “thought it was no big deal” and felt he was “OK.”
    It is unclear whether Lark had a permit for the pistol.
    Police took Lark to the Metropolitan Detention Center, where he was booked on a felony charge of unlawful carrying of a firearm in a licensed liquor establishment, the complaint says. He remained at the West Side jail Wednesday in lieu of a $2,500 cash or surety bond.
    The first incident, in which an as yet-unidentified man in his 20s allegedly robbed a McDonald's manager on Wyoming NE on June 3 wearing full law enforcement regalia, spurred APD to copyright its patch and badge.
    Robbery detectives planned to question Lark about the robbery on Wyoming NE but do not believe he was the perpetrator, police spokeswoman Nadine Hamby said. Investigators are pursuing another lead in that case.
    As for the good name of APD: Police officials recently obtained a copyright for the department's patch and are in the process of getting one for its newly designed badges, which went into circulation last month.


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    So the bad guy is willing to break the laws against armed robbery and impersonating a police officer, but would somehow be deterred by copyright law? Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that?


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    "It is unclear whether Lark had a permit for the pistol."

    You have to have a Permit for a pistol.....?

    I don't git it.......:?


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    That is the most poorly written article I have read in quite a while. The duty belt was towed?

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    You have to remember that the AlbuquerqueJournal is a poor excuse for a news paper. The only thing certain is it was not the way they reported. Thelaw was changed last July, it is no carry only where served, not where purchased. The only thing would be if posted by owner.

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    As I stated the news paper here is good only for wrapping fish. There is no registration, OC is just fine and thealcohol law has been changed to only where served. Other wise they got it right. There must be more to it! But we do have some very dumb cops. Need followup on this.

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    Is a high-powered Glock the same as a high-powered rifle?

    I e-mailed Jeffy to ask him what defined a "high-powered" pistol as opposed to a "low-powered' pistol? Where is the cut-off point? Was it some national standard? Certain calibers?

    No response as of yet.




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    45guy wrote:
    As I stated the news paper here is good only for wrapping fish. There is no registration, OC is just fine and thealcohol law has been changed to only where served. Other wise they got it right. There must be more to it! But we do have some very dumb cops. Need followup on this.
    That is incorrect. The law was changed in 2007 to permit concealed carry in establishments that sell liquor for off premise use. It is still a felony in NM to open carry in any liquor establishment....whether it is for consumption on or off premises. They just made it sound like you cannot carry in any fast food restaurant or liquor establishment and that is not true.

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    OK,did not know the difference.

    It does say concealed with CC, and has no reference to any other, so they can interpret as CC only. And will!

    One needs to use care and check things out or you will looka fool.


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    Carpetbagger wrote:
    So the bad guy is willing to break the laws against armed robbery and impersonating a police officer, but would somehow be deterred by copyright law? Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that?
    It'll make for good conversation in prison.

    "What are you in for?"

    "Copyright violation."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    High power Glock...... What the dopes meant to say was Glock with high capicity magazine

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    Yea this story is piss poor at best...."High powered Glock" "armed to the teeth" "police style duty belt"...
    I really wonder what happened here. It could very well be that this man was confused on the laws and now the court could take away his RTKABA for the rest of his life...sad really.
    I for one am glad he was wearing a "police style duty belt"...What did they want him to just stick the fire arm in his pants bare back....
    It sounds a bit like the APD are pissed some one dressed up like a officer and robbed a MC.D's. There investigation may be going no where fast so they grab the fist OCer who is unknowingly breaking the law and stick it to em...
    Just another reminder it is up to us to know the laws cause the can be very unforgiving....
    -A

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    So i NM you can't carry openly into an establishment that sells or dispenses alcohol?

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    That is correct. In 2007 the Legislature approved concealed carry in places that sell for off premise consumption, but open carry is still a felony.

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    Are you sure 'open carry' even with a concealed carry permit is a felony in NM? That wasn't clear from the law covered in my concealed carry permit class... Checking the law it isn't specific to concealment.

    Paragraph 7 b of the law states:
    "(b) under the control of the licensee
    or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the
    licensed premises."

    http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement...B0588final.pdf

    It does not say concealed - although it earlier talked about concealed carry.

    New Mexico is an open carry state, loaded or unloaded, but without a concealed carry permit it is not legal to enter package type stores with a weapon. Many other states - concealed means concealed - or else you are brandishing a weapon (a felony) - not in New Mexico.

    Whether or not it must be concealed isn't clear to me... although I would say it's probably not all that wise since there is so much confusion about the law anyway... Very few know that CCW license holders can carry in places that have posted the liquor establishment felony signs (so long as alcohol is not served for consumption).

    For what it is worth....
    "High Capacity Magazine" is really "Fully Capacity Magazine". It didn't become "high capacity" until labeled so by the liberal media. The gun was originally designed to work with a "full capacity" magazine... instead, the liberal version should read "limited capacity" magazine" for those restricted by law.


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    That would be a good test case, but I would hesitate to tryit. I worked with two Legislators to get the law changed to permit concealed carry in package stores and their intent was for concealed carry by licensed holders. I do not think anyone envisioned a concealed license holder to open carry in a package store. As difficult as the Alcohol and Gaming Division was, I do not think they would interpret it that way. But I think a lawyer would get anyone off; then they would tighten the law to remove the loophole. Despite the legislature changing the law, the Governor and the Director of Alcohol and Gaming did not want to provide any signs to be placed that showed that concealed carry was LEGAL, they wanted to keep the felony signs for open carry. Many people see those signs and still do not carry concealed.

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    Stupid law. Why is oc illegal in package stores, but not in gunshops? I've never been able to sort that out. The guys behind the counter are generally armed, both do a lot of cash business, etc. Add to that it is legal to CC, with a permit, but that becomes a felony--to the CCW holder! if his shirt rides up and the gun is exposed? Stupid.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    Is a high-powered Glock the same as a high-powered rifle?
    Exactly when does a pistol become "low-powered"? Or should I ask, what exactly IS a "low powered" hand gun?

    Is a .22 a high-powered or low-powered handgun? What about a BB gun? If you consider the weapon within its group one could argue that you can have a low-powered BB gun and a high-powered one, depending on the speed it fires. If, on the other hand, we are comparing handgun cartridges, say a .22 to a .44 Mag, then is the .22 low-powered?But if we throw a 30.06 into the mix does that make suddenly the .44 Mag low-powered? Or is there actually a high-powered / low-powered list somewhere I am not aware of?

    I think the bottom line has nothing to do with high-powered handguns, but more to do with "high-powered WORDS", those which instill grandeur into the storyfor theuninformed reader. The truth is, the idiot writing the story has no clue and does not care. They merely want to write a "high-powered" story (accurate or not). Our press these days is a said bunch as a rule. The only good thing about them is that they have move used car salesmen and loan sharks up on the list of trusted and honorableprofessions.

    Doc

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    Stupid law. Why is oc illegal in package stores, but not in gunshops? I've never been able to sort that out. The guys behind the counter are generally armed, both do a lot of cash business, etc. Add to that it is legal to CC, with a permit, but that becomes a felony--to the CCW holder! if his shirt rides up and the gun is exposed? Stupid.
    I am not sure but I assume it is a similar problem as we had here in Texas. The TABC has their own laws governing the sale of alcohol and regulations concerning licensed establishments. When the CHL law passed in Texas the TABC immediately posted all licensed establishment against CHL holders claiming that the new law did not supersede their laws against carry in licensed establishments. Despite the opinion of the AG and the legislators that drafted the new CHL law, the TABC refused to acknowledge it. As a result, the legislature addressed the problem the following session (2 years later) by writing an exemption to the TACB law.

    By what I have read in NM law, it appears this is a similar issue. The CCW law does not directly exempt permit holders from this law, so the legislature will need to address it directly to change it. Based on what I read, I do not see them changing it anytime soon and especially not for the unlicensed open carry folks.

    Doc

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    DocNTexas wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    Stupid law. Why is oc illegal in package stores, but not in gunshops? I've never been able to sort that out. The guys behind the counter are generally armed, both do a lot of cash business, etc. Add to that it is legal to CC, with a permit, but that becomes a felony--to the CCW holder! if his shirt rides up and the gun is exposed? Stupid.
    I am not sure but I assume it is a similar problem as we had here in Texas. The TABC has their own laws governing the sale of alcohol and regulations concerning licensed establishments. When the CHL law passed in Texas the TABC immediately posted all licensed establishment against CHL holders claiming that the new law did not supersede their laws against carry in licensed establishments. Despite the opinion of the AG and the legislators that drafted the new CHL law, the TABC refused to acknowledge it. As a result, the legislature addressed the problem the following session (2 years later) by writing an exemption to the TACB law.

    By what I have read in NM law, it appears this is a similar issue. The CCW law does not directly exempt permit holders from this law, so the legislature will need to address it directly to change it. Based on what I read, I do not see them changing it anytime soon and especially not for the unlicensed open carry folks.

    Doc
    I agree that it is unlikely in virtually any state that laws will expand to encompass OC rights. CC is another matter, and many states are cutting more and more exceptions to off-limit areas for CC, never OC. OC is the bastard child of the gun rights movement--except in rural states.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Gunslinger wrote:
    DocNTexas wrote:
    Gunslinger wrote:
    Stupid law. Why is oc illegal in package stores, but not in gunshops? I've never been able to sort that out. The guys behind the counter are generally armed, both do a lot of cash business, etc. Add to that it is legal to CC, with a permit, but that becomes a felony--to the CCW holder! if his shirt rides up and the gun is exposed? Stupid.
    I am not sure but I assume it is a similar problem as we had here in Texas. The TABC has their own laws governing the sale of alcohol and regulations concerning licensed establishments. When the CHL law passed in Texas the TABC immediately posted all licensed establishment against CHL holders claiming that the new law did not supersede their laws against carry in licensed establishments. Despite the opinion of the AG and the legislators that drafted the new CHL law, the TABC refused to acknowledge it. As a result, the legislature addressed the problem the following session (2 years later) by writing an exemption to the TACB law.

    By what I have read in NM law, it appears this is a similar issue. The CCW law does not directly exempt permit holders from this law, so the legislature will need to address it directly to change it. Based on what I read, I do not see them changing it anytime soon and especially not for the unlicensed open carry folks.

    Doc
    I agree that it is unlikely in virtually any state that laws will expand to encompass OC rights. CC is another matter, and many states are cutting more and more exceptions to off-limit areas for CC, never OC. OC is the bastard child of the gun rights movement--except in rural states.
    I agree that pushing to change the CC law is the way to go. I have encouraged this is several forums and hope it comes to pass with the next legislature. As a frequent visitor to NM I would certainly like to be able to carry inthe licensed restaurants where like to I eat.

    I find the variations in gun lawsbetween the states somewhat interesting. It is funny how differently state legislators see the threat posed by given rights and laws. For example, Texas has gone out of it's way to promote CC and is expected to remove virtually all the remaining restrictions this next session, yet they are not in favor of OC. NM on the other hand has long allowed OC but is very cautiously easing into CC. Rather than looking to each others neighbors for history and guidance on the things the other already knows about, they each act like they are breaking new ground and fear the worst.

    I wish NM all the best for changing this law next session, but the people I have spoken to seen to think it will be a long slow process as the legislators are not too excited about adding it at this time. I hope they are wrong. Good luck!

    Doc

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    Thanks for the objective response, snoball.

    I guess the real problem I have with this story is the sensationalism. Whether or not OC is technically legal in a package store doesn't bother me as much as the blatant sensationalism about the poor guy that was busted. "Police style duty belt" and "high powered weapon" is all fodder for the gun fearing... and makes the general public nervous.

    I also hope, as others have said in this thread, that gun laws and attitudes will become a little less extreme as time goes on... but with the media reporting on things in this manner it will be hard (to change things for the better).

    It's time to start rewarding people for responsible behavior, such as concealed carry permit holders, who have gone through a great expense and training to carry - and instead punish those who break the law. Concealed carry should be welcomed, not feared. Open carry should be understood as well - that the guns don't kill people - criminals with guns, bats, knives, cars, etc... kill people.

    But that's the world I'd like to live in, and it's a fantasy for now.

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