Felony arrest in Albuquerque for Open Carry in Giant gas station

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

Is a high-powered Glock the same as a high-powered rifle?

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Exactly when does a pistol become "low-powered"? Or should I ask, what exactly IS a "low powered" hand gun?

Is a .22 a high-powered or low-powered handgun? What about a BB gun? If you consider the weapon within its group one could argue that you can have a low-powered BB gun and a high-powered one, depending on the speed it fires. If, on the other hand, we are comparing handgun cartridges, say a .22 to a .44 Mag, then is the .22 low-powered?But if we throw a 30.06 into the mix does that make suddenly the .44 Mag low-powered? Or is there actually a high-powered / low-powered list somewhere I am not aware of?

I think the bottom line has nothing to do with high-powered handguns, but more to do with "high-powered WORDS", those which instill grandeur into the storyfor theuninformed reader. The truth is, the idiot writing the story has no clue and does not care. They merely want to write a "high-powered" story (accurate or not). Our press these days is a said bunch as a rule. The only good thing about them is that they have move used car salesmen and loan sharks up on the list of trusted and honorableprofessions.

Doc

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Gunslinger wrote:

Stupid law. Why is oc illegal in package stores, but not in gunshops? I've never been able to sort that out. The guys behind the counter are generally armed, both do a lot of cash business, etc. Add to that it is legal to CC, with a permit, but that becomes a felony--to the CCW holder! if his shirt rides up and the gun is exposed? Stupid.

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I am not sure but I assume it is a similar problem as we had here in Texas. The TABC has their own laws governing the sale of alcohol and regulations concerning licensed establishments. When the CHL law passed in Texas the TABC immediately posted all licensed establishment against CHL holders claiming that the new law did not supersede their laws against carry in licensed establishments. Despite the opinion of the AG and the legislators that drafted the new CHL law, the TABC refused to acknowledge it. As a result, the legislature addressed the problem the following session (2 years later) by writing an exemption to the TACB law.

By what I have read in NM law, it appears this is a similar issue. The CCW law does not directly exempt permit holders from this law, so the legislature will need to address it directly to change it. Based on what I read, I do not see them changing it anytime soon and especially not for the unlicensed open carry folks.

Doc

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DocNTexas wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:

Stupid law. Why is oc illegal in package stores, but not in gunshops? I've never been able to sort that out. The guys behind the counter are generally armed, both do a lot of cash business, etc. Add to that it is legal to CC, with a permit, but that becomes a felony--to the CCW holder! if his shirt rides up and the gun is exposed? Stupid.

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I am not sure but I assume it is a similar problem as we had here in Texas. The TABC has their own laws governing the sale of alcohol and regulations concerning licensed establishments. When the CHL law passed in Texas the TABC immediately posted all licensed establishment against CHL holders claiming that the new law did not supersede their laws against carry in licensed establishments. Despite the opinion of the AG and the legislators that drafted the new CHL law, the TABC refused to acknowledge it. As a result, the legislature addressed the problem the following session (2 years later) by writing an exemption to the TACB law.

By what I have read in NM law, it appears this is a similar issue. The CCW law does not directly exempt permit holders from this law, so the legislature will need to address it directly to change it. Based on what I read, I do not see them changing it anytime soon and especially not for the unlicensed open carry folks.

Doc

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I agree that it is unlikely in virtually any state that laws will expand to encompass OC rights. CC is another matter, and many states are cutting more and more exceptions to off-limit areas for CC, never OC. OC is the bastard child of the gun rights movement--except in rural states.

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Gunslinger wrote:

DocNTexas wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:

Stupid law. Why is oc illegal in package stores, but not in gunshops? I've never been able to sort that out. The guys behind the counter are generally armed, both do a lot of cash business, etc. Add to that it is legal to CC, with a permit, but that becomes a felony--to the CCW holder! if his shirt rides up and the gun is exposed? Stupid.

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I am not sure but I assume it is a similar problem as we had here in Texas. The TABC has their own laws governing the sale of alcohol and regulations concerning licensed establishments. When the CHL law passed in Texas the TABC immediately posted all licensed establishment against CHL holders claiming that the new law did not supersede their laws against carry in licensed establishments. Despite the opinion of the AG and the legislators that drafted the new CHL law, the TABC refused to acknowledge it. As a result, the legislature addressed the problem the following session (2 years later) by writing an exemption to the TACB law.

By what I have read in NM law, it appears this is a similar issue. The CCW law does not directly exempt permit holders from this law, so the legislature will need to address it directly to change it. Based on what I read, I do not see them changing it anytime soon and especially not for the unlicensed open carry folks.

Doc

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I agree that it is unlikely in virtually any state that laws will expand to encompass OC rights. CC is another matter, and many states are cutting more and more exceptions to off-limit areas for CC, never OC. OC is the bastard child of the gun rights movement--except in rural states.

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I agree that pushing to change the CC law is the way to go. I have encouraged this is several forums and hope it comes to pass with the next legislature. As a frequent visitor to NM I would certainly like to be able to carry inthe licensed restaurants where like to I eat.

I find the variations in gun lawsbetween the states somewhat interesting. It is funny how differently state legislators see the threat posed by given rights and laws. For example, Texas has gone out of it's way to promote CC and is expected to remove virtually all the remaining restrictions this next session, yet they are not in favor of OC. NM on the other hand has long allowed OC but is very cautiously easing into CC. Rather than looking to each others neighbors for history and guidance on the things the other already knows about, they each act like they are breaking new ground and fear the worst.

I wish NM all the best for changing this law next session, but the people I have spoken to seen to think it will be a long slow process as the legislators are not too excited about adding it at this time. I hope they are wrong. Good luck!

Doc

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Thanks for the objective response, snoball.

I guess the real problem I have with this story is the sensationalism. Whether or not OC is technically legal in a package store doesn't bother me as much as the blatant sensationalism about the poor guy that was busted. "Police style duty belt" and "high powered weapon" is all fodder for the gun fearing... and makes the general public nervous.

I also hope, as others have said in this thread, that gun laws and attitudes will become a little less extreme as time goes on... but with the media reporting on things in this manner it will be hard (to change things for the better).

It's time to start rewarding people for responsible behavior, such as concealed carry permit holders, who have gone through a great expense and training to carry - and instead punish those who break the law. Concealed carry should be welcomed, not feared. Open carry should be understood as well - that the guns don't kill people - criminals with guns, bats, knives, cars, etc... kill people.

But that's the world I'd like to live in, and it's a fantasy for now.

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The bottom line is that this guy was an idiot. Making a statement that "he knew he should not have entered the store armed to the teeth, but since the security guard did not stop him he figured it was not big deal" just shows how big of idiot he actually is. It is people like this that make it bad for the law abiding and hurt the chances removing some of these restrictive laws.

While I do not agree with many of the laws on the books, we need to follow them while we work to change them. That is what the term "law abiding citizen" means.

When i read these stories I immediately wonder if this is just one of the few idiots out there or if it is actually one of those anti-gun radicals willing to take a hit for the team by giving the pro-gun crowd a black eye by such a stunt (would not be the first time).

Doc

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Excellent point, Doc.

I didn't catch that quote. The simple answer is probably the truth, though... he probably was ignorant of the law. "Ignorance doesn't make it right."

If you're gonna carry concealed or open - find out what the rules are... before confrontation.

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Believe me when I say that there are some stupid cops in New Mexico and most of them don't even know the traffic laws. That being said there are quite a FEW good ones who don't walk around with a halo and a god badge. I think those all gravitate to Rio Rancho for some reason. Maybe it's to be near god himself, "Judge" Walker.

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Cravczec wrote:

Believe me when I say that there are some stupid cops in New Mexico and most of them don't even know the traffic laws. That being said there are quite a FEW good ones who don't walk around with a halo and a god badge. I think those all gravitate to Rio Rancho for some reason. Maybe it's to be near god himself, "Judge" Walker.

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Forgive me if I missed something in your post, but I assume it was referring to the statement I made above about the guy who open carried into the store and got arrested. I was referring to the guy who got arrested, not the cop who arrested him. The officer was absolutely correct...the guy was totally in the wrong by OC'ing there.

Doc

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OK

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Judge Walker?

I don't understand what you're trying to say... are Rio Rancho police more competent or less?

To blame a law enforcement officer for not fully understanding the law - is not exactly fair... Most legal code is so complex that you could have it reviewed by 10 attorneys and get 5 different answers.

I agree with the Doc, the guy was wrong to blatantly walk in the way he did...
You really shouldn't try to change the law by breaking it.

Leave that to the tie dyed, trespassing free love folks...

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snoball wrote:

"I do not think anyone envisioned a concealed license holder to open carry in a package store."

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Yeah, in Washington state, package stores are typical stops for peoplewho open carry.And apparently crime in package stores is worse down here than up there... So much for protection... My wife's purse was just stolen at aWal-mart from right beside her. What if it had been my daughter in the cart? I feel soooo unsafe walking into stores in Albuquerque.

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OK... the guy arrested 'knew' he shouldn't do that. 'did it anyway. His bad. I agree it's a screwy 'law'. OC or CC there's still a weapon in the equation. Only the manner of carry is the 'problem'.

What I do have a problem with is the writer of the article... Guns have no 'power' at all... the ammo does. So whats up with the 'police style...' blah-blah-blah? It's a gunbelt. Several of mine would fit that description prob'ly. Black nylon gear. Does it matter? 'Permit"? What permit? The idiot who wrote this never even bothered to Google NM gun laws. This is the sort of disinformation disseminated by the MSM that becomes 'lore. I've had people here ask if I had a 'permit'... 'n they were born here. (Townies)

They also ask if it's 'registered'. They get this nonsense from the media. AND THEY GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE THEY ARE NEVER CHALLENGED ON THE VERACITY OF THEIR PUBLIC STATEMENTS! This is either intentional... or ignorance. I suspect the former. New Mexico is an OC state... 'same as here. Yet... the local news weenies use the same sort'a verbiage I hear when any handgun incidents are reported. "Unknown if the gun was registered... or that so 'n so had a permit."Do they all graduate from the sameSchool of Stupid or what?

What they failed to 'report'... Was the establishment posted? Did anyone tell the man to leave the premises? If either of those 'facts' were true and the man disregarded either... Then he screwed up. Obviously somebody get bent outta shape 'n called the cops.

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herr_jon wrote:

Judge Walker?

I don't understand what you're trying to say... are Rio Rancho police more competent or less?

To blame a law enforcement officer for not fully understanding the law - is not exactly fair... Most legal code is so complex that you could have it reviewed by 10 attorneys and get 5 different answers.

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If ignorance of the law is good enough for the average joe, then it's good for the average LEO. When I set up illegal aliens for removal proceedings, you can bet that I am 100% dead on... or I'm up the creek.

While what he did in NM was "illegal", that aside, I do expect LEO's to know ALL the laws they enforce, if they run into a situation they are not aware of, then they need cut their losses and research that applicable section of law for possible future encounters.

Sorry, but no excuse.

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Right at the very top of the page.




[align=left]AN ACT[/align]



[align=left]RELATING TO CONCEALED HANDGUNS; ALLOWING CONCEALED HANDGUNS IN[/align]



[align=left]AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT SELLS ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES FOR[/align]



[align=left]CONSUMPTION OFF THE PREMISES; ALLOWING LAW ENFORCEMENT[/align]



[align=left]OFFICERS TO CARRY FIREARMS IN CERTAIN LICENSED LIQUOR[/align]



[align=left]ESTABLISHMENTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE POLICIES OF THEIR[/align]
EMPLOYER.

http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement/ccw/docs/HB0588final.pdf

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SpaceCase wrote:

The duty belt was towed? :banghead:

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I was going to ask the same question. Did it take 2 tow trucks?

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Firearms have nothing to do with "power"... The power is in the cartridge. It's just more media-biased drivel.

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Wynder wrote:

Firearms have nothing to do with "power"... The power is in the cartridge. It's just more media-biased drivel.

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9mm ain't exactly hi-powered... .454 Casul is a whole 'nuther another animal (forinstance). But there are no 'hi-powered' guns... I've written to numerous news outfits 'bout this kind'a stuff... but it's never had any effect.

Talk sense to these lib-tards 'n their eyes glaze over. :shock:

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snoball wrote:

Here is the full story plus the link.

http://www.abqjournal.com/west/19115233W1NOCOP1906-19-08.htm

Cops: Man Had Gun in Store

By Jeff Proctor
Journal Staff Writer
“Concerned security guards” called police, who on arriving at the store, disarmed Lark and took him into custody, the complaint says. Lark's vehicle was towed, along with the duty belt.

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That sucks that Lark had his gun towed. :lol:

Opps, someone beat me to the joke.

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I am a police officer with the New Mexico Mounted Patrol and a concealed carry instructor and law enforcement firearms instructor for the state of New Mexico and I have enforced alcohol laws for the past several years. I was one of the three persons that rewrote the paragraph (4) below that allows concealed carry into an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption off the premises. That change (in bold print) became effective July 1, 2007. The police had it right in Albuquerque.

From reading the replies it's evident those replying do not know the laws regarding firearms in an establishment that sells alcohol.

New Mexico Statutes Annotated (NMSA) 30-7-3 states: "Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments.

A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:

(1) by a law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the officer's duties;

(2) by a law enforcement officer who in certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement Training Act [NMSA 29-7-1] acting in accordance with the policies of the officer's law enforcement agency;

(3) by the owner, lessee, tenant or operator of the licensed premises or the owner's, lessee's, tenant's or operator's agents, including privately employed security personnel during the performance of their duties;

(4) by a person carrying a concealed handgun who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [NMSA 29-19-1]; provided that the licensed establishment does not sell alcololic beverages for consumption on the premises;

(5) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;

(6) by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily used for vehicular traffic or parking; or

(7) for the purpose of temporary display, provided that the firearm is: (a) made completely inoperative before it is carried unto the licensed premises and remains inoperative while it is on the licensed premises, and (b) under the control of the licensee or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the licensed premises.

B. Whoever commist unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcololic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony."

The summation is: you can not take a gun into a store that sells alcohol for consumption on, or off the premisses, UNLESS you have a concealed carry permit and the gun you are carrying is concealed and a type listed on the back of your permit and then it can ONLY be a store that sells for consumption off the premises.

I hope this clears up some of the misunderstanding of the New Mexico statute.