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Thread: Getting a Virginia resident concealed handgun permit

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    A while back, and with prodding from some other folks, I started putting together datarelevant to getting a Virginia concealed handgun permit.

    I have a draft of it at http://www.bighammer.net/vachp.html

    It's obviously a work in progress, but at this point there's enough info for a good start. The "Day 46" post is the kind of situation that I'd like to see folks be able to either avoid, or self correct using the information on the vachp page.

    Please take a few moments to take a look. If you notice something missing, needing more info, needing correction, you can post it here or PM me.

    I already know that the Super Moderator will probably comment that I didn't mention that the SSN disclosure is voluntary and should be filled out "Not disclosed, if any".

    Next round of revisions!

    Enjoy!



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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Well, you could tell folks that Proactive Shooters is the finest firearms training company in the Metro Richmond area.....but I dont wantyou to appear to be biased......haha!



    Jim


    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Well, you could tell folks that Proactive Shooters is the finest firearms training company in the Metro Richmond area.....but I dont wantyou to appear to be biased......haha!



    Jim

    Don't hold back Jim. Tell us what you really feel.:shock:

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    +1

    Today is day 34 for me. And since my "instant" background check during a recent purchase took two days, I am not expecting miracles from Prince William County.





    EDIT typo


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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Well, you could tell folks that Proactive Shooters is the finest firearms training company in the Metro Richmond area.....but I dont wantyou to appear to be biased......haha!



    Jim

    Don't hold back Jim. Tell us what you really feel.:shock:


    Well, if you insist!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Mr. Y wrote:
    A while back, and with prodding from some other folks, I started putting together datarelevant to getting a Virginia concealed handgun permit.

    I have a draft of it at http://www.bighammer.net/vachp.html

    It's obviously a work in progress, but at this point there's enough info for a good start. The "Day 46" post is the kind of situation that I'd like to see folks be able to either avoid, or self correct using the information on the vachp page.

    Please take a few moments to take a look. If you notice something missing, needing more info, needing correction, you can post it here or PM me.

    I already know that the Super Moderator will probably comment that I didn't mention that the SSN disclosure is voluntary and should be filled out "Not disclosed, if any".

    Next round of revisions!

    Enjoy!

    I understand what you are trying to create, but wonder why you are doing it. From reading your draft I got the impression that one should expect all sorts of roadblocks and extra-legal (if not downright illegal) activity on the part of the Circuit Court Clerk and/or local PD.

    Perhaps you could change the tone and indicate that there are rare exceptions to the smooth progress of the application procedure, and then discuss how to respond to those exceptions.

    You might want to place the link to VCDL at the top of your "What if" section, along with a tip of the hatfor the work that organization has and continues to do in making roadblocks a rare event.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    * fixed a few typos
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Is requiring a SASE really that big of a deal? Alexandria required it and I personally enjoyed not having to go through the hassle of going down to the court house to pick it up.

    You might want to list certain cities/counties that are known to be "problem children" or fingerprinters

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    Is requiring a SASE really that big of a deal? Alexandria required it and I personally enjoyed not having to go through the hassle of going down to the court house to pick it up.

    You might want to list certain cities/counties that are known to be "problem children" or fingerprinters
    I think there's a more important question to ask:

    Why is it such a big deal for courts to do the job we pay them to do and abide by the law? The processing fee for the permits is supposed to cover all the fees associated with the application. Heck, even FAIRFAX mailsthe permit to you (even if you don't include the SASE). I know, I know... I'm expecting too much for the court to actually abide by the law. :?

    I don't know allthe fingerprinters, or all the problem children currently. In fact, fingerprintprocedures from the few places that do it might be useful. On another note, I remember a few years ago we were asking"what's the big deal about providing proof of residence?" and the same for the triplicate notarized copies, and the repeatedly violated 45 day limit.



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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Mr. Y wrote:
    Is requiring a SASE really that big of a deal? Alexandria required it and I personally enjoyed not having to go through the hassle of going down to the court house to pick it up.

    You might want to list certain cities/counties that are known to be "problem children" or fingerprinters
    I think there's a more important question to ask:

    Why is it such a big deal for courts to do the job we pay them to do and abide by the law? The processing fee for the permits is supposed to cover all the fees associated with the application. Heck, even FAIRFAX mailsthe permit to you (even if you don't include the SASE). I know, I know... I'm expecting too much for the court to actually abide by the law. :?
    There's no requirement in the code for them to mail your permit to you at all, only a requirement to "send" you your de facto permit if you havn't been approved in 45 days...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Nope. There's no requirement one way or the other how the permit is to be issued. Mail, common carrier or deputy delivery is all find and legal, but a mandatory trip to the courthouse isnot required either.

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    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    You've obviously put a lot effort into this and there's a lot of useful info there. However, I agree with Skidmark about the tone. Your website strikes me as very adversarial and makes it sound like every applicant can expect to encounter nefarious schemes and obstructions. That certainly wasn't true in my case; the clerk was extremely friendly and helpful, and notarized everything on the spot. I got my permit in just over 30 days.You might want to conceptually group the information into "what's supposed to happen," "problems you might encounter," and "what to do when things don't happen the way they're supposed to." Limit the adversarial tone to thelatter section.

    FWIW, Hampton is one jurisdiction that requires fingerprinting. The HPD CSI unit does this; you may have to make an appointment. HPD is just across the street and up the block from the courthouse. The fingerprint card was returned to me with my permit, with a stamp on it indicating it had cleared a VSP background check.

    Editorial nit-picking:

    1. In the Demanding More Information than Is Required section, you left the "r" out of the city of "Nofolk" Maybe you were intending to spell it phonetically; if so, that's not how I would've spelled it.
    2. Grammar/punctuation and capitalization errors: "Even if you qualify to obtain the permit without training;you areprior service (Armed Forces) with an honorable discharge,etc.Some additional training won't hurt and you just might learn something."
    3. The next 2 sentences in the same paragraph ("Ifthere is something that is in your background that you think may disqualify you then you shouldconsult with a lawyer who is familiar with firearmslaw. That's what VCDL will more than likely tell you.") are a non sequitur and belong somewhere else, not embedded in a paragraph about proof of competency.
    4. Punctuation errors throughout--usually commas where they don't belong. Your writing styletends to run tovery long sentences with multiple clauses and asides. This makes puncuation both more important and more difficult. Try breaking sentences up and/or rearranging the clauses to reduce the need for punctuation. Still, you're way ahead of some of the people who post on this board. :P
    5. Who's Marcellus Wallace?
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Excellent feedback, thanks Eeyore!

    I'll try to take a whack at your suggestions later today but if not today, I'll get to it.

    Since you and Skid seem to agree, let me pose this to you(both) or others who wish to opine.

    The permit appliation process does usually go pretty smooth, butone of the reasons it does is that a lot of applicants simply "knuckle under" to request from the court. Some may think them innoccuous, or not unreasonable or theyjust don't want to chance a denial for time constraints, hassle factor, etc.

    Some of them read their local application from their jurisdiction's court and no matter how onerous some requirements may bethey think they have no choice but to comply. In these situations the process is quite adversarial.Mrs. Y and I bothat least once did the same thing - got the local courtinstructions andfollowed them without objecting.

    Whatare your suggestions to convey that applicants need not provide extra material to the court, and if the court asks for more to tell them no and if the court resists what to do?





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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Eeyore wrote:
    Who's Marcellus Wallace?Pulp Fiction


    Carry On.

    Ed

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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    OK, I think this is related,...

    I just got a call from Prince William county. One of the clerks there is having an issue with my application. I was just told that my permit will not be approved unless I bring them proof of my honorable discharge from the Army before June 30th.(I got out in '98, under a general disharge, NOT a dishonorable) I signed the application, had it notorized, and answered the question about my military service honestly. The question asks, "have you ever been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces" or something like that. I just submitted a written request to the dept of military records, but was told, after a 40 minute hold, that the records will take 10-14 days to reach me. Now, he specifically mentioned "before the 30th of June" June 30th will be day 45. Can my application be denied because of this? Isn't it up to them to research this? I don't mind getting them a copy of the records, but I am worried that that I will be denied, and then have to resubmit, repay, and re-wait another 45 days.

    (not that I have any problem with OC)

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    Were you not suppose to attach a copy of the discharge papers when you submitted your application? I know I had to submit a copy of a handgun course certificate to fill the prerequisite.

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    Not that I know of. I never read anything that said I needed to prove that. The question only asks if the applicant has been dishonorably discharged.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    What proof of competancy did you submit?
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    An approved firearms safety course. I asked the clerk, he stated that everything else was fine, the issue they had was with my discharge.

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    ZBBMcFate wrote:
    OK, I think this is related,...

    I just got a call from Prince William county. One of the clerks there is having an issue with my application. I was just told that my permit will not be approved unless I bring them proof of my honorable discharge from the Army before June 30th.(I got out in '98, under a general disharge, NOT a dishonorable) I signed the application, had it notorized, and answered the question about my military service honestly. The question asks, "have you ever been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces" or something like that. I just submitted a written request to the dept of military records, but was told, after a 40 minute hold, that the records will take 10-14 days to reach me. Now, he specifically mentioned "before the 30th of June" June 30th will be day 45. Can my application be denied because of this? Isn't it up to them to research this? I don't mind getting them a copy of the records, but I am worried that that I will be denied, and then have to resubmit, repay, and re-wait another 45 days.

    (not that I have any problem with OC)
    IMO, yes you can be denied for this.

    http://www.bighammer.net/vachp.html#preapplication

    From 18.2-308:

    5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;

    The use of the word honorable to describe the type of discharge limits the application of the qualification to only those people who have an honorable discharge for the purposes of competence.

    dishonorable is an explicit disqualifier. Number 11 to be precise.

    IMO, since your dischargedoes not meet the legal requirements of proof of competence as defined in 18.2-308, your suspension will result in a denial. Further, I believe an Ore Tenus is not practical in this case because the discharge says "general".

    If you have no other qualifying proof of competence I suggest you find a class or competition to enroll in to prevent the denial. I would not wait for the denial. If you ever apply for a non-res. permityou may have to list denials as part of that application. There's a host of NRA cert. instructors on this board and that would be a good place to start.

    Best of luck.



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    No, my proof of competency was ok, per the court clerk. The issue that he has is that my discharge is coming back blank from the VA State Police background check. Everything on my application was ok, except that he has no proof that I wasn't dishonorably discharged. That's what I was just told by the clerk. I was not dishonorably discharged. My discharge was listed as "general" It's not dishonorable, it's just not "honorable" either. (that's a long story for another time & place)

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    Ok, gotcha. That's a different story. Wait the 45 days and on 7/1 go to the courthouse and have the clerk cert. your application as the defacto permit.

    If you have a Gen. discharge you won't be denied unless they're plain stupid. They have to be able to - within the 45 days - show you areD/Q OR issue the permit.

    You've met your obligations, and theyare within their authority to hold your app until 6/30 (day 45). At which time if they have no disqualifying info they SHOULD issue you the permit.

    I suggest being ready to go to the courthouse on July 1 and getting your defacto permit.

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    That is my plan, in fact, I have already taken the morning of July 1st off, as to be waiting on the steps when the courthouse opens. This clerk has me rattled though. I was hoping that this would fall into the territory of 'their job' and I could push this back onto them. I am still expecting this to not go smoothly.

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    Do you have your DD214 or is that what you're waiting on military records to send? If you have it, what does block 13A state?
    ---

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    No, my copy went MIA years back. I guess the propect of having to provide extra documentation after reading the OP got me kinda riled up. I remember requesting a DD214 a few years ago, and it took approx 3 months to receive a deleted copy when I had requested, in writing, an undeleted copy. Anyway, I was ready to wait until July 1st, and after calling the court clerk back, I think at worst, I will have to carry the temp if I do CC, at least until Uncle Sam sends my old walking papers.

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    They've spedup the DD-214 retrieval process. I had to get mine as proof of discharge for something earlier this year, and it took a few weeks. And yes it was a "summary copy", ie, what I believe you are calling a DELETED copy.

    HTH

    Jason

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