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Thread: OC in vehicle?

  1. #1
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    My question is, where does it say you cannot OC in a vehicle? In my copy of firearm laws of Michigan, I found two references to transporting, 750.227c and 750.227d. Both state, OTHER THAN A PISTOL in Sec. 227c (1) and Sec. 227d (1). C says loaded firearm and D says firearm. I found no Atty Gen opinion otherwise. My copy is dated April 2003! I live in Warren and have notified the Sheriff , Police Commissioner, Detroit news, Macomb Daily, NRA General Council by registered letters, which stated all laws, court cases and constitutional rights provided by our state. I just could not find anything stating other than what I've heard about getting into a car with an OC ed firearm, turning it into a concealed firearm. Thank you for any info!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    The way i understand it the minute you get into vehicle while OC'ing the weapon becomes concealed. Hence a CPL is required to transport while OC'ing IN vehicle.

  3. #3
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    I have always heard the same thing. I would like to see it in writting just as a judge would require in court! Thanks!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    hamaneggs wrote:
    I have always heard the same thing. I would like to see it in writting just as a judge would require in court! Thanks!
    Judge would require in court....are you serious??? in its simpleist terms the ONLY way to carry/transport on your person in a vehicle, is with a CPL (concealed pistol license) by law! it does NOT state that it MUST be concealed.

    the vehicle is the concealing element. which is WHY a CPL is required while carrying as either a driver or passenger in a vehicle.

    NO WHERE does it say, that you CANNOT.....OC in a vehicle. ALL it states is that to carry in a vehicle, you MUST have a CPL.

    IF i am wrong or i myself am misguided or misunderstood on the subject, would someone with a little more knowledge please correct me?

    EDIT: i just reread your question and now think i have a better idea of what you are asking.


  5. #5
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Yes! It is a technical, legal question. Obviously if we have to follow the letter of the law, we have to know what the letter of the law says! Certainly the officers you might run into will not know the law the majority of the time! I am not willing to accept hearsay when it comes to officers on the beat who know less than I know of OCing!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    your question AS WORDED is not answerable since there is NOTHING that says you CANNOT OC while in your vehicle. OTHER than you MUST have a CPL to carry in your vehicle. if NO cpl then the following information applies.


    This what the law says with regards to transporting a firearam WITHOUT a CPL. This is NOT hearsay, this comes directly from the MSP (Michigan State Police) website.
    If you don’t have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law.
    Michigan State Police Web Site. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle?
    Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines ‘lawful purpose’ as: 1) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. 2) While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair. 3) While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business. 4) While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol. 5) While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale. 6) While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted. 7) While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.


  7. #7
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    My question comes because of page 92 of my copy of FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN-STATUTES. 750.227c TRANSPORTING OR POSSESSING LOADED FIREARM IN OR UPON VEHICLE; VIOLATION AS MISDEMEANOR; PENALTY; APPLICABILITY TO PERSON VIOLATING 312.10(1)(g).

    sec.227c. (1) Exept as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft,motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, OTHER THAN A PISTOL, which is loaded.

    750.227d TRANSPORTING OR POSSESSING FIREARM IN OR UPON MOTOR VEHICLE OR SELF-PROPELLED VEHICLE DESIGNED FOR LAND TRAVEL; CONDITIONS; VIOLATION AS MISDEMEANOR; PENALTY.

    sec.227d. (1) Exept as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, OTHER THAN A PISTOL, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

    (a) Taken down.

    (b) Enclosed in a case.

    (c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle

    This is printed from the law exactly word for word. In both statutes, OTHER THAN A PISTOL is stated! So you can see where I would need to see where in the law it is written, when I am reading the law as it is written.

    When officers tell you OCing is illegal, there is no reason to take them at their word, when you read the law and know the law. The explanation the State Police gave is in the statutes above ,exept where in the law does it show how an OCed pistol turns into a concealed pistol once one enters a vehicle? Just as OCing is not stated as being legal in the law, the turning of an OCed pistol into an illegaly concealed pistol is not stated in law. See where my point is! THANK YOU FOR THE INPUT!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    I still do not see the confusion. 100+ views of the thread and obviously no one else does neither, since they have not chimed in. It is very simple.

    Fact: Michigan is an open carry sate. there is NO law claiming it illegal to do so.

    Fact: no permit is required to open carry on foot by a person who legally owns the gun they are carrying.

    Fact: a CPL is not required to transport a pistol in the manner stated in the above post. (post #6)

    Fact: the only way to carry ON person while in a vehicle in the state of Michigan, is with a CPL. the CPL does NOT state that it MUST be concealed while in said vehicle, there for by default OC in a vehicle WITH a CPL is LEGAL.

    Fact: There is NOTHING on the books that says open carry in Michigan is illegal. your local town/county ordinances (with the exception of private property) against open carry or concealed carry for that matter (with the exception of the carry exempt zones listed on your CPL, which only pertain to concealed and not lawful open carry) are NOT legal, due to the fact of Michigans 1990 firearm pre-emption.

    Fact: regarding pre-emption.....
    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.

    Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.

    MCRGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.

    Fact: laws are written to tell us what we cannot do. there for if there is no law saying it IS illegal, it's legal.

    Fact: your question was...."My question is, where does it say you cannot OC in a vehicle? ANSWER: it does NOT say ANYWHERE you cannot OC in a vehicle, PROVIDED you are a CPL holder. without a CPL you WILL be charged with CCW.

    Fact: you need to learn the differences and privelages granted by having a CPL versus NOT having a CPL in THIS state.

    Fact: ALL of this and more can be learned from this VERY site.

    Fact: if all of the above does not properly answer your question. you may want to consider some other form of protection, other than a firearm.

    Fact: i am done with the thread.


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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    warlockmatized wrote:
    I still do not see the confusion. 100+ views of the thread and obviously no one else does neither, since they have not chimed in. It is very simple.

    Fact: Michigan is an open carry sate. there is NO law claiming it illegal to do so.

    Fact: no permit is required to open carry on foot by a person who legally owns the gun they are carrying.

    Fact: a CPL is not required to transport a pistol in the manner stated in the above post. (post #6)

    Fact: the only way to carry ON person while in a vehicle in the state of Michigan, is with a CPL. the CPL does NOT state that it MUST be concealed while in said vehicle, there for by default OC in a vehicle WITH a CPL is LEGAL.

    Fact: There is NOTHING on the books that says open carry in Michigan is illegal. your local town/county ordinances (with the exception of private property) against open carry or concealed carry for that matter (with the exception of the carry exempt zones listed on your CPL, which only pertain to concealed and not lawful open carry) are NOT legal, due to the fact of Michigans 1990 firearm pre-emption.

    Fact: regarding pre-emption.....
    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.

    Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.

    MCRGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.

    Fact: laws are written to tell us what we cannot do. there for if there is no law saying it IS illegal, it's legal.

    Fact: your question was...."My question is, where does it say you cannot OC in a vehicle? ANSWER: it does NOT say ANYWHERE you cannot OC in a vehicle, PROVIDED you are a CPL holder. without a CPL you WILL be charged with CCW.

    Fact: you need to learn the differences and privelages granted by having a CPL versus NOT having a CPL in THIS state.

    Fact: ALL of this and more can be learned from this VERY site.

    Fact: if all of the above does not properly answer your question. you may want to consider some other form of protection, other than a firearm.

    Fact: i am done with the thread.
    Warlock, he is looking for the law about what I have "bolded" in your post.

  10. #10
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    I believe firearms are the only true defense we have. I did not mean to raise a rukkus with my question. If in the CPL law it states that is the only way you can OC in a vehicle, it isn't very clear. I'm looking for clarity. I am a member of MCRGO, NRA lifer and believe in 24/7 defense devoid of any restrictions whatsoever. But that is my informed opinion of the no infringement clause in the 2nd, and Article 1 sec.6 of MI constitution," Every person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of HIMSELF AND THE STATE". IT's pretty simple to me! THANKs for the info!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Hamaneggs,

    The relevant law is found on page 124 of the Firearms Laws of Michigan publication you have:

    MC750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
    Sec. 227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length,
    or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or
    whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place
    of business or on other land possessed by the person.
    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle
    operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the
    person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner
    inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a
    fine of not more than $2,500.00.
    History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931;—CL 1948, 750.227;—Am. 1973, Act 206, Eff. Mar. 29, 1974;—Am. 1986, Act 8, Eff. July 1, 1986.
    Constitutionality: The double jeopardy protection against multiple punishment for the same offense is a restriction on a court’s ability to impose
    punishment in excess of that intended by the Legislature, not a limit on the Legislature’s power to define crime and fix punishment. People v. Sturgis, 427 Mich.
    392, 397 N.W.2d 783 (1986).
    Former law: See section 5 of Act 372 of 1927, being CL 1929, § 16753.

    Hope this helps.

    --DrTodd
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  12. #12
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Thanks DrTodd

    And welcome to OCDO.

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    dougwg wrote:
    Thanks DrTodd

    And welcome to OCDO.
    +1 Dr Todd




  14. #14
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thank you Dr Todd! When concealed weapon was mentioned before it dawned on me that it would be conected there in some way. I believe that those who OC without a CPL should be able to defend themselves in their vehicle and anywhere they are vulnerable. Certainly while in a car, carjacking,murder, robbery, rape and abductions are a concern to anyone! I am going to contact the state Reps who are co-members of MCRGO and see if there are any plans to change this statute and if not get them to get it changed. We need the laws to reflect what are our freedoms and rights, not allow the laws to deny us those rights that we have since our births! Thanks for the info and God Bless!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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