Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: AG Opinion On State Preemption RCW 9.41.290

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    250

    Post imported post

    Good news, I have been told that there will be a (Pro-Gun) Senator asking for an AG opinion in regards to what Greg Nickels is doing in Seattle, and how state preemptionRCW 9.41.290 affects/applies tothis Executive Order.

    Just wanted to share that with ya'll.

    XD

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hoquiam, , USA
    Posts
    172

    Post imported post

    Thank you

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    The bad part is that Nickels thinks the court ruling, which is an authoritative ruling unlike an AG opinion, that gives him authority to ban firearms on city property. The only thing that I see putting an end to his EO is a lawsuit.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    250

    Post imported post

    joeroket wrote:
    The bad part is that Nickels thinks the court ruling, which is an authoritative ruling unlike an AG opinion, that gives him authority to ban firearms on city property. The only thing that I see putting an end to his EO is a lawsuit.
    Well, hopefully the AG will cite good caselaw, and interpret it is well.

    Here are some previous AG Opinions on Preemption FYI....

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...ic&id=8140

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...ic&id=7938

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...c&id=10652

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...ic&id=7872

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...c&id=14446

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?section=topic&id=5610

    Here are some that are Firearms related....

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinions.aspx?section=topic&topic=FIREARMS

    Hopefully Rob McKenna will do a good job.....

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    XD45PlusP wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    The bad part is that Nickels thinks the court ruling, which is an authoritative ruling unlike an AG opinion, that gives him authority to ban firearms on city property. The only thing that I see putting an end to his EO is a lawsuit.
    Well, hopefully the AG will cite good caselaw, and interpret it is well.

    Here are some previous AG Opinions on Preemption FYI....

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...ic&id=8140

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...ic&id=7938

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...c&id=10652

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...ic&id=7872

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...c&id=14446

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?section=topic&id=5610

    Here are some that are Firearms related....

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinions.aspx?section=topic&topic=FIREARMS

    Hopefully Rob McKenna will do a good job.....
    Typically McKenna is pro 2A but he does seem to shy away from it in his official capacity. Rep. Mike Sells requested an opinion for me about open carrying of a firearm and the applicability of a terry stop based on an exposed weapon. Needless to say his office decided to paraphrase the question when the opinion was written and skated around the open carrying aspect of it.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    LaConner, Washington, USA
    Posts
    649

    Post imported post

    I can see that this topic is going to grow legs in many ways. Suppose this scenario develops: (1) Someone files a lawsuit to block Nickels' EO. (2) The lawsuit ends up ruling against Nickels, so Nickels, with some cronies in Olympia and citing other cases like Sequim, moves to change the RCW giving cities the right to limit guns on their properties. Now we have a major escalation. I realize the Sequim case is still pending (?) but nevertheless it could be dragged into the fray.

    I realize all of this is speculation at this point, but it worries me that we have the potential here for the anti-gun lobby to act at the state level. Perhaps previous case law and the state constitution would blunt such an attack; I'm no expert on this. But if this comes to pass we could be on the path to California's plight. God help us.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Silverdale, Washington, USA
    Posts
    58

    Post imported post

    however...IIRC the Sequim case revolves arund the actions concerning someone under contract to the city...not a normal resident. In this case an EO works because this is the vehicle for a Mayor to get his employees to do something a certain way. An EO is not usually binding on non-city employees as I understand things

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,863

    Post imported post

    Sean wrote:
    however...IIRC the Sequim case revolves arund the actions concerning someone under contract to the city...not a normal resident.* In this case an EO works because this is the vehicle for a Mayor to get his employees to do something a certain way.* An EO is not usually binding on non-city employees as I understand things
    The Sequim case does indeed deal with the use of public property by a private vendor for a commercial enterprise, and a careful read of the opinion reveals that it doesn't appear to address the legal concealed carry (or open carry) of firearms on public property by private citizens at all.

    The court, perhaps properly, said a city can regulate a commercial operation that occurs on city property. That's a hell of a lot different than adopting a decree that outlaws a constitutionally protected civil right.

    Executive orders should not be binding on private citizens, but this may take a court test.

    It may all be rendered moot if the AG comes up with an opinion that cools Nickels' jets. if not, then there's court.

    This battle may be fought in the Legislature in January,, too. Don't overlook that. Indeed, that's the place for gun owners to get fired up about anything Nickels does this summer. The last time they tried to push the gun show bill, for example, we had a couple of hundred people there, filling the room and pouring into an overflow room for the hearing.

    A lot depends on this November's election. Find out who your legislator is,, maybe who's running against him/her, and help elect a stronger Legislature.

    In the meantime, drop a note to your legislator expressing your outrage...no, make that your alarm... that Nickels would have the audacity to cavalierly ignore state statute, and arbitrarily usurp the authority of the Legislature. State lawmakers don't like that sort of thing, even from the Seattle mayor. Especially in the off-months. Rural lawmakers, especially from eastern Washington, REALLY don't like that sort of thing from the Seattle mayor, anytime of the year.

    Make it a good letter, polite, to the point, no threats (not even a promise to vote against the schmuck) but just "alarm" and "concern" that Nickels would presume to override the authority of the Legislature.

    Greg's really not that popular down in Oly, keep that in mind.

    Time is on our side.

    But that's just me talking.

  9. #9
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    Unfortunately, sending a letter to my legislator would be in vain, as I'm in the 21st Legislative District, as is Lonnie and expvideo. We have good ol' Paull Shin, who supported and co-sponsored gun-control bills for Higher Education while also being the Chairman of the Higher Education Committee.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Union, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,256

    Post imported post

    just_a_car wrote:
    Unfortunately, sending a letter to my legislator would be in vain, as I'm in the 21st Legislative District, as is Lonnie and expvideo. We have good ol' Paull Shin, who supported and co-sponsored gun-control bills for Higher Education while also being the Chairman of the Higher Education Committee.
    Shin is a sorry excuse for a legislator and a human being. I was at one of his public hearing and he acted like no one had a different view than him. When in reality around 80% of the people present were opposed to his position. He's the reason the system is broke. I'm lucky as I have Tim Sheldon, he listens at least, which is more than Shin does.

  11. #11
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,558

    Post imported post

    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    Unfortunately, sending a letter to my legislator would be in vain, as I'm in the 21st Legislative District, as is Lonnie and expvideo. We have good ol' Paull Shin, who supported and co-sponsored gun-control bills for Higher Education while also being the Chairman of the Higher Education Committee.
    Shin is a sorry excuse for a legislator and a human being. I was at one of his public hearing and he acted like no one had a different view than him. When in reality around 80% of the people present were opposed to his position. He's the reason the system is broke. I'm lucky as I have Tim Sheldon, he listens at least, which is more than Shin does.
    Wait... I think we've met. I didn't think we'd met yet. I testified at that hearing as one of two UW students. I was the one with curly hair.

    Yeah, Shin's comment/quote of "I'm selfish." made me almost lose it. That jerk doesn't deserve to have support of anyone for anything. I intend on making sure everyone in his district is aware of what his opinion is on whether the public's opinion matters.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lynnwood, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,238

    Post imported post

    Shin is getting up there in age. Wouldn't surprise me if he retired in 2010 after his term is up.

    Lonnie Wilson (D-21) for State Senate? :what:

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,863

    Post imported post

    just_a_car wrote:
    Wait... I think we've met. I didn't think we'd met yet. I testified at that hearing as one of two UW students. I was the one with curly hair.
    [/quote]

    Saaaayyyyy, Is this an "eHarmony moment?"



  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,863

    Post imported post

    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Shin is getting up there in age.* Wouldn't surprise me if he retired in 2010 after his term is up.

    Lonnie Wilson (D-21) for State Senate? :what:

    Saaaaayyyyyy, that'd sure keep you out of mischief,, wouldn't it? We'll all register to vote in your district as well as our own. And get our dead relatives to do likewise. And we'll get all the votes tabulated by folks hand-picked by the governor.


  15. #15
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Shin is getting up there in age. Wouldn't surprise me if he retired in 2010 after his term is up.

    Lonnie Wilson (D-21) for State Senate? :what:
    Too bad I'm out of your district...

  16. #16
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    Dave Workman wrote:
    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Shin is getting up there in age. Wouldn't surprise me if he retired in 2010 after his term is up.

    Lonnie Wilson (D-21) for State Senate? :what:

    Saaaaayyyyyy, that'd sure keep you out of mischief,, wouldn't it? We'll all register to vote in your district as well as our own. And get our dead relatives to do likewise. And we'll get all the votes tabulated by folks hand-picked by the governor.

    In King County, anything is possible!

    I'd vote for ya Lonnie!

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    Sent to my congressmen (all three are Republicans):

    Distinguished representatives,

    You've probably heard about Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels' brazen
    defiance of state law with an executive order banning lawful firearm
    carry on city property. It's a typical liberal knee-jerk reaction:
    curtailing responsible citizen's rights because of what one
    irresponsible idiot did.

    Here's a quick summary if you haven't heard about it:
    http://www.NRAILA.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4003

    Washinton State's preemptive firearms law is very clear and very
    specific: cities and counties CANNOT have firearms law more
    restrictive than or inconsistent with state law. Actions like Mr.
    Nickels' are expressly forbidden. Here's a quick reference on the
    state laws:
    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...downfile;id=14

    Unfortunately this isn't an isolated problem. Montesano's city council
    recently tried something similar. Even our own Centralia and Chehalis
    (Lewis county, too) have ordinances on the books restricting lawful
    carry in parks. Spokane has this problem, too -- and many others.
    Again, these more-restrictive and inconsistent laws are in wanton
    violation of preemptive state law.

    I've been working with Centralia, Chehalis, and Lewis County to bring
    their codes into line with state law. But progress is slow and
    reluctant, if at all. From Spokane to Seattle, it's a state-wide
    problem. It seems local lawmakers with anti-gun agendas think they're
    above the law.

    The state law is already quite good. But with these local leaders'
    willful violations, we still have the same problem of inconsistent
    local laws which the state law was designed to avoid in the first
    place.

    So here's my idea. They may not respect the rule of law, but I'll bet
    they do respect (fear) legal liability. We need a state Attorney
    General's opinion published, clarifying and reiterating state law. It
    should focus on preemption (and hopefully open carry, too). These
    rogue local lawmakers need to be put on notice that they are likely to
    lose big in any court battle related to enforcement of their illegal
    statutes.

    It is my understanding your positions afford you standing to request
    such an AG opinion. In my estimation, this is a fairly
    politically-safe move, considering the existing state law. Please
    consider standing up for our God-given civil rights by taking this
    action.

    Thank you for your time.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Union, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,256

    Post imported post

    just_a_car wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    Unfortunately, sending a letter to my legislator would be in vain, as I'm in the 21st Legislative District, as is Lonnie and expvideo. We have good ol' Paull Shin, who supported and co-sponsored gun-control bills for Higher Education while also being the Chairman of the Higher Education Committee.
    Shin is a sorry excuse for a legislator and a human being. I was at one of his public hearing and he acted like no one had a different view than him. When in reality around 80% of the people present were opposed to his position. He's the reason the system is broke. I'm lucky as I have Tim Sheldon, he listens at least, which is more than Shin does.
    Wait... I think we've met. I didn't think we'd met yet. I testified at that hearing as one of two UW students. I was the one with curly hair.

    Yeah, Shin's comment/quote of "I'm selfish." made me almost lose it. That jerk doesn't deserve to have support of anyone for anything. I intend on making sure everyone in his district is aware of what his opinion is on whether the public's opinion matters.
    I was there, signed in but didn't speak as I really wasn't prepared for it. Besides it wouldn't have made any difference.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    Aww crap. As usual I thought of something really great right after I sent that. If you send something like this to your state reps, be sure to mention how local violations of state preemption are an affront to their authority as state lawmakers. Stroke the egos, baby! ;-)

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,863

    Post imported post

    t3rmin wrote:
    Aww crap. As usual I thought of something really great right after I sent that. If you send something like this to your state reps, be sure to mention how local violations of state preemption are an affront to their authority as state lawmakers. Stroke the egos, baby! ;-)

    Okay, I give up.

    Were they "congressmen" or "state lawmakers?"
    We need to know the difference, and invariably make the distinction.

    It was a good letter. I;'m just not certain to whom it was sent. :?

  21. #21
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Shin is getting up there in age. Wouldn't surprise me if he retired in 2010 after his term is up.

    Lonnie Wilson (D-21) for State Senate? :what:
    Too bad I'm out of your district...
    Under our current government here in WA that shouldn't be an issue.

    Vote for Lonnie

    Vote early and Vote often.



    When the election is over maybe we can count the vote as many times as necessary to get the result we desire.

    After all isn't that the "Democratic Way"?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  22. #22
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Nortonville, KY, USA
    Posts
    4,291

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Shin is getting up there in age. Wouldn't surprise me if he retired in 2010
    after his term is up.
    Lonnie Wilson (D-21) for State Senate? :what:
    Too bad I'm out of your district...
    We all chip in and rent a studio apt in his district and list that as our home address.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,327

    Post imported post

    I'm just not certain to whom it was sent.
    Well, since he said "all Republicans" it could only be his state reps and senator, from the 20th district around Centralia.

    I used to live in such a district, too (28th) but we're down to only 1 Republican now. :-( Although if they were Tim Sheldon-style Democrats I wouldn't be so sad...






  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    M1Gunr wrote:
    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Shin is getting up there in age. Wouldn't surprise me if he retired in 2010
    after his term is up.
    Lonnie Wilson (D-21) for State Senate? :what:
    Too bad I'm out of your district...
    We all chip in and rent a studio apt in his district and list that as our home address.
    LOL. If we have enough people we could probably get it down to $5 a person.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    Dave Workman wrote:
    Okay, I give up.

    Were they "congressmen" or "state lawmakers?"
    We need to know the difference, and invariably make the distinction.

    It was a good letter. I;'m just not certain to whom it was sent. :?
    Dan Swecker, Richard DeBolt, Gary Alexander.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •