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Thread: Supreme court decision that Open Carry

  1. #1
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    As the title says, I am sure I saw the cite to the fact that open carry is not grounds to be stopped by the police. Can someone help me out and repost it?

    thanks

    bob

    EDIT: I found what I was looking for in the templatethread.

    thanks

    bob






  2. #2
    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    So? Was it State vs Casad, or did you find something even better?

    MD

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Machoduck wrote:
    So?* Was it State vs Casad, or did you find something even better?*

    MD
    Better.

    A complaint in of itself is of no evidentiary value short of describing criminal conduct.

    Someone calling in a MWAG is NOT sufficient to detain someone, as no law is being broken, UNLESS the officer can articulate WHY he thinks a law is,has been, or shortly will be, broken.

    In addition, under Terry, one may only be patted down if it's reasonably believed that the suspect is armed and DANGEROUS.

    So, even IF they can articulate why a detention is necessary, they have no grounds to remove your pistol from you unless they can articulate why you're a danger, and 'he's carrying a gun and we don't know him' won't pass muster...
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  4. #4
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    This paragraph,

    "A mere report of a man with a gun is not grounds for a Terry stop. Florida v. J. L., 529 U.S. 266 (2000). Americans cannot be required to carry and produce identification credentials on demand to the police. Kolender v. Lawson, 461 U.S. 352 (1983). Washington does not have a "stop and ID" statute. However, even where a state enacts a "stop and ID" statute, stop must be limited to situations where RAS exists of a crime, and further, stop subject's statement of his name satisfies the ID requirement as Kolender, discussed supra, has not been overruled. Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004). Even where a state has established a duty to carry a license for some activity, absent RAS for the stop, the license cannot be demanded. State v. Peters, 2008 WL 2185754 (Wis. App. I Dist. 2008) (driver of vehicle has no duty to produce driver's license absent RAS) (citing Hiibel). Law enforcement officers seizing persons for refusal to show identification are "not entitled to dismissal of . . . [42 USC 1983 claims] based on qualified immunity." Stufflebeam v. Harris, 521 F.3d 884, 889 (8th Cir. 2008). "

    from this excellent letter which has some very good material to read. The entire letter is here http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/11425-1.html.

    If you want some good reading, at least I thought so, do a search on the cases. The reasoning for the decisons are good info.

    Here is the one to Florida v J.L.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/htm...9_0266_ZS.html



    So yes, it is much better than State v Casad.

    bob






  5. #5
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    I remembergetting into an argument with someone over this. (Mind you we were law enforcement cadets together, he isn't currently law enforcement)

    He says, "The 9-1-1 call is sufficient reasoning to detain someone for a terry stop."

    I replied "So if someone called 9-1-1 and said 'hey, there's a dude outside the mall eating an ice cream cone' would that be sufficient for a terry stop?"

    He just said "yeah,I guess I can see what you mean."



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