imported post
All the discussions below suggest both, can and cannot. I see read RCW 9.41.280. asI can? Please help?
Dave, where can this book be purchased, is it in book stores? "Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities,"
knight_308 wrote:
Gene Beasley wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
Gene Beasley wrote:
M1Gunr wrote
Does this mean I can get out of the vehicle and walk to the door to pick them up? Or must one remain in the vehicle?
If my child is being held in the Principle's office and I must pick them up can I carry into the school?
My child gets hurt while at school and is in the nurses office and I have to pick them up. Am I legal to carry onto the school grounds and into the building?
[/quote]
M1Gunr wrote:
nathan wrote:
kparker wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
jbone wrote:
All the discussions below suggest both, can and cannot. I see read RCW 9.41.280. asI can? Please help?
Dave, where can this book be purchased, is it in book stores? "Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities,"
knight_308 wrote:
Does that mean we can carry on school grounds? I thought that was a federal offense, permit or not.
Gene Beasley wrote:
Also in RCW 9.41.280
(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:
(a) Any firearm;
[snip unrelated]
(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;
(g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or
[edit] added link and reference to the RCW number
just_a_car wrote:
To put what Gene posted in perspective, unless you're picking up or dropping off a student, there's no way to go CC or OC onto primary or secondary school grounds.
Therefore, as per section (f) and (g) listed above, you have to lock up your pistol in your car while at the school unless picking up or dropping off a student. Doesn't help immediately stop a shooter at a school, but it does allow you to retreive it in case of such an event.
Gene Beasley wrote:
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW
Ok, I have to ask for clarification.9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
M1Gunr wrote
Does this mean I can get out of the vehicle and walk to the door to pick them up? Or must one remain in the vehicle?
If my child is being held in the Principle's office and I must pick them up can I carry into the school?
My child gets hurt while at school and is in the nurses office and I have to pick them up. Am I legal to carry onto the school grounds and into the building?
[/quote]
M1Gunr wrote:
Ok, I have to ask for clarification.
amlevin wrote:
If you are CC, what is the question, point being who would know?Does this mean I can get out of the vehicle and walk to the door to pick them up? Or must one remain in the vehicle?
If my child is being held in the Principle's office and I must pick them up can I carry into the school?
My child gets hurt while at school and is in the nurses office and I have to pick them up. Am I legal to carry onto the school grounds and into the building?
If you are OC, I can guarantee that some school "incharge ninny" would soil their linens if they saw the gun, regardless if you had a justification under the law. They would call the cops who would no doubt respond with a regional SWAT team. Be assured that YOU would be the lead story that night on TV.
The way I read the law you should be legal either way. The way THEY read the law is all that is going to matter.
nathan wrote:
You cannot legally OC or CC inside any public or private elementary or secondary school.
9.41.280
(5) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
kparker wrote:
To further clarify M1Gunr's question, note that the list of exceptions Nathan quotes does not include section (e) ("Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070 ... while picking up or dropping off a student".)
In other words, you can have your loaded handgun with you in your car, on school property, while pickup up or dropping off a student, but may not enter any school building unless you qualify under one of the other exceptions to this prohibition. (This section of the RCW doesn't actually address the loaded question, but since you can't carry loaded in your vehicle w/o a CPL...)
just_a_car wrote:Um, you guys may want to read my post at the bottom of page 11... as I already stated what most of you are posting.
M1Gunr wrote:amlevinwrote:+1The way I read the law you should be legal either way. The way THEY read the law is all that is going to matter.
To pick up or drop off. One cannot "read" into the way the law was written. It does not say remain in your car, the driveway or wait by the sidewalk, it simply says to pick up or drop off. However, I am not going to be the test case unless I get lots of money for my legal defense and a OCDO tshirt for my mug shot.
Izzle wrote:M1Gunrwrote:amlevin wrote:i agree dropping of a student could mean walking them to their class but oh man i would not wont to test this, the police would not be gentle in "detaining" you. I kinda wanna call the local school district and ask them what they think but my guess would be that they have no idea about this exception.+1The way I read the law you should be legal either way. The way THEY read the law is all that is going to matter.
To pick up or drop off. One cannot "read" into the way the law was written. It does not say remain in your car, the driveway or wait by the sidewalk, it simply says to pick up or drop off. However, I am not going to be the test case unless I get lots of money for my legal defense and a OCDO tshirt for my mug shot.
joeroket wrote:I have carried while walking my kids to thier classes. I did not enter, but then again I never did when I took them to school. This was long before I knew OC was legal but i would not have OC'd while on school grounds regardless of being legal or not just due to the fact that it would be extremely disruptive to the whole school and kids education is way more important than me OC'ing.
So after looking at the RCW again it apparently is OK to carry your firearm into the building as long as you are non-student and the firearm is secured in an attended vehicle. So if you drive into the building it is ok to have your firearm in the car. That sure makes alot of sense.
joeroket wrote:IzzleA district is going to tell you that firearms are not permitted as it is a federal gun free zone.i agree dropping of a student could mean walking them to their class but oh man i would not wont to test this, the police would not be gentle in "detaining" you. I kinda wanna call the local school district and ask them what they think but my guess would be that they have no idea about this exception.+1The way I read the law you should be legal either way. The way THEY read the law is all that is going to matter.
To pick up or drop off. One cannot "read" into the way the law was written. It does not say remain in your car, the driveway or wait by the sidewalk, it simply says to pick up or drop off. However, I am not going to be the test case unless I get lots of money for my legal defense and a OCDO tshirt for my mug shot.
Trust me on this one. I work for a school district and have asked numerous administrators about how they would handle a firearm on campus in accordance with the laws and everyone of them told me that there are no laws allowing firearms on school grounds. Boy were they suprised when I proved them wrong.
Dave Workman wrote:Why are some people suddenly so interested in trotting into a public school with a firearm?
(DISCLAIMER: I hate gun free zones, write about them constantly, have criticized them in my book "America Fights Back: Armed Self-Defense in a Violent Age, and would be delighted if they were all abolished.)
So, this some kind of "in your face with my gun rights" kind of thing, or what?
This started as a thread about Greg Nickels banning guns in city parks and other city property in Seattle, which is clearly an illegal act. However, the ban on guns in schools was done by the Legislature under its preemption authority.
If we're going to bitch about Nickels exceeding his authority under the law, maybe we ought to stick with that. His proclamation had nothing to do with school grounds.
Lonnie Wilson wrote:Agreed, let's not involve schools in this whole situation (we're discussing Nickels decree). Personally, I believe that gun free zones suck, and that we should return to a pre-1993 state where guns WERE allowed to be possessed by CPL holders (it's that way in Oregon still), and so on. However, that's another time for another day on a different method of attack in terms of constitutional issues.
I do not, as a general rule, recommend open carrying on school grounds even to pick up or drop off a student.
kparker wrote:joeroket wrote:Dave,
I think the conversation veered off in the school direction as a result of someone's response to Jeanne Kohl-Welles' statements on the linked video.
Yes, it's quite a tangent, and not relevant to Nickel's ban per se.
I'll also second your (and Lonnie's) advice not to conflate these two issues. Much as I, too, would like to see all gun-free zones vanish, it's going to be a much, much longer haul to even get to parity with Oregon or Utah in this arena, whereas with the Seattle thing we're only needing to push back against a threatened restiction of a well-established right. We're talking orders of magnitude more difficult for the school issue, and that will be a long, hard, slow campaign, with lots of need for care, planning, restraint, and subtlety. IMO, of course.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/users/801.htmlIf you read the last page there was a letter written to Sen. Kohl-Wells about this issue and in it was a correction to her mis-statement of the city having a firearm ban on school grounds. This generated a few questions which we discussed.
Tawnos wrote:The main point is that the RCW doesn't strictly ban firearms on school grounds, per the claim. The RCW falls in line almost uniformly with federal legislation.
The short of it is: concealed carry on school grounds with a permit is okay. Carry of any sort inside buildings if not a sheriff, blah blah blah is not okay (RCW 9.41.280 3e and 5).
I'm not advocating doing carry meets or even pressing the issues, down that road is the short trip to demonization by those who would like our right stripped. Instead, the point is that it's not outright banned by the laws of the state, enacted to fall in line with the federal laws.
Dave Workman wrote:Tawnos: Let's be careful here. The exemption in 9.41.280 (3)(e) is specific, and it applies topeople "while picking up or dropping off a student." Nothing more.
9.41.280 (5) merely alludes back to (3) (b), (c), (f) and (h), all of which cover having firearms at gun shows, demonstrations, showings, lectures and firearms safety courses, and this should NOT be construed or interpreted as a pass for packing a concealed orOChandgun at these events. All such events must have the approval of the school officials, of course.
Otherwise, "firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building."
(f) you will notice, requires the gun to be secured within an attended vehicle or "concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school."
This would cover, for example, Joe Blow who is licensed to carry, who swings into the school parking lot to pick up his wife who works at the school. It does NOT give Joe a pass to wander around the school grounds packing a handgun.
It was so much easier in the 1970s before "gun free school zones" became fad du jour of the anti-gun nuts.
jbone wrote:style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"The way I read is (3) b. gives those with CPL permission to carry on the grounds period! as long as you do not enter a building under (3) 5. Is my interpretation wrong? There is no mention of wondering, I attend many outdoor sport events with my child, can I carry now?
(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not
apply to:
(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement,
or school district security activities;
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who
has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070,
or is exempt from the licensing requirement by
RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off
a student;
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"(5) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b),
(c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not
permitted in a public or private school building.
Change: as long as you do not enter a building under (3) 5. - (5).
Dave Workman wrote:
jbone: Yes, your interpretation is wrong.
You cannot carry while attending sports events with your child. The activities for which it is permissable to have a firearm in a school building are clearly spelled out, and (3) (c) makes it clear that the firearms permitted in such events are for instruction purposes, handling and display.
Under (3)(f) and (g) it is abundantly clear that loaded firearms are not allowed inside school buildings...except as provided for in (b) for military, security or law enforcement.
You're not reading the damn thing in its entirety, and that seems to be a problem around here. People are not reading the part that says "while picking up or dropping off a student."
There's no mysteryto that phraseand no room for debate. This says what it says. You can haveyour gunon you while picking up or dropping off a student. It doesn't say you can take a leisurely stroll around the grounds while waiting for your kid, and it doesn't say you can go over to the football field, grab a dog and coke and sit in the stands...
It only says what it says, and it means you come, pick up the kid, and get the hell off school property.
I don't like it, we have tried to correct it in Olympia without success, and it is a dumb regulation, but it is still the rule, and we play by the rules.
And a note: Kparker and nathan seem to understand all of this perfectly. Maybe you guys read my book "Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities," ((not to be confused with the little pamphlet.))
jbone wrote:
Can the Administrator move this to a new thread? I and others may have more questions,don't want to stray from Mayor Nickels.
kparker wrote:knight_308 wrote:jbone,
Just create a new thread yourself if you have more to say/ask on the subject.
And we'll take your comment here (and this one of mine) as a subtle hint to go over there and stop further discussion of the school-related stuff here.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/users/10943.htmlSorry folks, this detour was my bad. I didn't know we could even have a firearm on school property (except for the drop-off exception) and was so shocked I had to ask for confirmation .
It really sets my mind at ease since I occasionally need to deliver pizza to schools (at my night job) and don't want to have to tell my management (who is anti-gun) that I'm packing as an excuse for passing on the delivery.
kparker wrote:knight_308,
Just be sure to leave the gun inside the locked car when you get out, and you'll be legal.
