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Thread: WALSH: Why are some people so gun-crazy?

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    http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9648769

    Walsh: Why are some people so gun-crazy?
    By Rebecca Walsh
    Tribune Columnist
    Article Last Updated: 06/20/2008 03:42:59 PM MDT


    My 20-month-old nephew loves Elmo and Dora. He also has started making explosion and gunfire noises.
    I get the inevitability of little boys' fascination for guns.
    What I can't figure out are the men and sometimes women who don't grow out of the gun-crazy stage of childhood, who need to have a handgun on their hips at all times, who need their neighbors to notice.
    Ten of them stormed the West Valley City Council meeting last week to back up Travis Deveraux, a 36-year-old credit card company worker who was detained by police last December while exercising with his Smith & Wesson.
    "I don't blame them for being a little bit extra careful," Deveraux said. "But there's a line they crossed between being a little bit careful and a little bit too careful."
    I thought there was no such thing as "too careful" - especially with a gun. But the OpenCarry crowd's literal interpretation of the "right to bear arms" and self-appointment as our "well-regulated militia" undercuts careful law enforcement, membership in a civil society and even reason.
    It's in the Constitution, their thinking goes. They are "peaceably going about their business while armed," standing on the watchtower, the last line of defense against government tyranny and crazed criminals. We should thank them.
    I understand the thrill of firing a Glock (I've done it), the euphoria of hitting the center of a target (and that too), generations of family deer-hunting weekends and the legitimate self-preservation instincts of Utah's elected concealed weapon carriers.
    But the OpenCarry movement is a mystery to me. What kind of psychology - overcompensation, paranoia, antisocial personality - is behind that thinking?
    Steven Gunn, an attorney and board member of the Gun Violence Prevention Center of Utah, believes it's pure ego.
    "We have inconsiderate boors walking around on the street carrying firearms openly," says Gunn. "I don't think they are truly afraid for their safety. Most of them are trying to make a statement about the 2nd Amendment."
    Anthropologist Charles Springwood says open carriers are trying to "naturalize the presence of guns, which means that guns become ordinary, omnipresent, and expected. Over time, the gun becomes a symbol of ordinary personhood."
    OpenCarry.org, run by two Virginia gun lovers, claims 4,000 members nationwide. According to the Legal Community Against Violence in San Francisco, just seven states prohibit packing in public and eight restrict carrying handguns openly without a permit.
    Utah's OpenCarry activists put on a show for the Los Angeles Times a few weeks ago, trying to appear warm and fuzzy, shopping at Costco, just like you and me - but with their handguns flapping in the breeze. They meet once a month at restaurants like Denny's and Sweet Tomatoes to socialize.
    "We don't want to show up and say, 'Hey, we're here, we're armed, get used to it'," Kevin Jensen told the Times reporter.
    But that's just what the showdown in West Valley City was about. The cowed mayor and city council members referred the case to the officers' professional standards review board.
    Police are struggling to strike a balance between gun owners' rights and those of the rest of us.
    "There has to be some common sense on their part too; they have to take into consideration the concern that they cause other citizens," says Layton Police Chief Terry Keefe. "I do not walk around when I'm off-duty with a weapon displayed."
    Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank would rather gun owners get concealed weapon permits than carry openly.
    "In light of Trolley Square, mall shootings, school shootings, anyone walking around with a gun potentially creates a lot of phone calls for us," Burbank says. "How do you expect an officer to deal with that - other than to point a gun at them and go through the process [of elimination]? There's no other way to make that determination safely without putting officers at risk."
    Utah lawmakers set up this stalemate when they wrote the state's anything goes concealed weapon law. They deliberately left open a loophole for those who carry their guns out in the open. Under Utah law, open carriers must be 18 years-old and keep their bullets out of the chamber. That's it. No training, no background check required.
    "Second Amendment questions aside," says Springwood, a professor at Illinois Wesleyan University, "the real debate seems to me a cultural and social one: Do we want a society in which it is an unconscious emblem of everyday life that folks move about with 'portable killing machines' strapped to their bodies?"
    Legislators already have made that decision for us; we're living in the modern heart of the wild, wild West.
    walsh@sltrib.com

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    Well, now. I've been promoted from redneck to boor.

    Actually, we can expect more of this. And thick, I think.

    It is going to drive some people up the wall that we have a way to bypass the anti-gun media, take our message about the 2A directly to the streets, and are being successful.

    You watch.Some aregoing to go nuts. And we need to be on top of it. Spokesman ready. LTE's ready.

    Mike? You listening?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    Toward the end of the screed, the twit said when the legislators made the Utah CCW law, they "deliberately left open a loophole" for those who open carry. I guess "loophole" is now the code word for any lawful behavior the leftists want to demonize and eliminate. And the historically-challenged author didn't realize that open carry is the historical right, while the recent CCW law is a small privilege carved out of that right. Of course, with the creation of the state-controlled CCW system, in her mind it is now time to "close the loophole" for any other type of carry.

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    Where is the puke smiley? Because that is just what happened. Ms. Walsh owes me a new key board and moniter.

    Part of me wants to write some long drawn out speech, high lighting this and that but for what cause? I doubt she will read it orcare to understand it. Perhaps some here will find humoror passion in my words and than quote the article and form other opinions.

    Bah.

    When I get finishedtyping this post on my "child porn machine" I'm probably going to get into my "genicide mobile" and go toBest Buy and look at purchasing a new "Bomb threat generator" and maybe a "Porn viewer".All the while my "Killing machine" will be strapped to my "Cow holocaust". Maybe on the way home since I have anemptybelly I'll stop by a "Fat people press" and order a frozen "Baby cow nutrional suppliment"cone. I just have to remember to get extra "Treehearts" since its hard to drive stick and eat someone elsesfrozen "Breast milk" at the same time.



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    Not gonna stop and fill up on "Blood of the Earth"?

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    Whoa, hold the F'ing phone......
    The Attorney and Board member of the GVPC of Utah is named "GUNN"?!?!?!?!?!?!?
    Now I thought it was coincidence that the head of SAFE in Colorado is Tom MAUSER, but now...I don't know....funny....

    Sheis a textbook definition of "Sheeple". In fact she's one of the worst kinds of Anti, a deep family hunting tradition, even fire a few rounds at harmless paper, but spits on those that choose to defend themselves and their Rights under our Constitution.
    Nuff said, I'm sick...


    EDITED forunnecesary vulgarity- BobCav

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    Evil Ernie wrote:
    Whoa, hold the F'ing phone......
    The Attorney and Board member of the GVPC of Utah is named "GUNN"?!?!?!?!?!?!?
    Now I thought it was coincidence that the head of SAFE in Colorado is Tom MAUSER, but now...I don't know....funny....

    Sheis a textbook definition of "Sheeple". In fact she's one of the worst kinds of Anti, a deep family hunting tradition, even fire a few rounds at harmless paper, but spits on those that choose to defend themselves and their Rights under our Constitution.
    Nuff said, I'm sick...
    She's a false flag. She lends credibility because she likes a piece of the 2A legacy, if any of her claims are even true. It makes her and their views more acceptable to some people who might otherwise become their opponents or ignore them.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I guess some people are gun-crazy just the same as some people are pet crazy, or other people are plant crazy, and...

    Well, you get the idea.

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    WhiteFeather wrote:
    Where is the puke smiley? Because that is just what happened. Ms. Walsh owes me a new key board and moniter.

    Part of me wants to write some long drawn out speech, high lighting this and that but for what cause? I doubt she will read it orcare to understand it. Perhaps some here will find humoror passion in my words and than quote the article and form other opinions.

    Bah.

    When I get finishedtyping this post on my "child porn machine" I'm probably going to get into my "genicide mobile" and go toBest Buy and look at purchasing a new "Bomb threat generator" and maybe a "Porn viewer".All the while my "Killing machine" will be strapped to my "Cow holocaust". Maybe on the way home since I have anemptybelly I'll stop by a "Fat people press" and order a frozen "Baby cow nutrional suppliment"cone. I just have to remember to get extra "Treehearts" since its hard to drive stick and eat someone elsesfrozen "Breast milk" at the same time.

    When I get finishedtyping this post on my "child porn machine" I'm probably going to get into my "genicide mobile" and go toBest Buy and look at purchasing a new "Bomb threat generator" and maybe a "Porn viewer".All the while my "Killing machine" will be strapped to my "Cow holocaust". Maybe on the way home since I have anemptybelly I'll stop by a "Fat people press" and order a frozen "Baby cow nutrional suppliment"cone. I just have to remember to get extra "Treehearts" since its hard to drive stick and eat someone elsesfrozen "Breast milk" at the same time.


    ROTFLMAO. You my SIR..., Are HILARIOUS

    On a scale 1-10 you get 12 Guns.


    (Now wait a minute ....Did that comment make me even more "Gun-Nut"...)


    TJ


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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    You read the comments on this TJ? Some guy was attacking you directly. Dirty so and so's.

    I sent this to the author, a bit too polite but you know.

    Dear Rebecca Walsh, Thanks for your opinion on Open carry. However I have to disagree with your opinion. It's one thing to be careful with somebody with a gun, It's quite another to violate their constitutional rights.I am one of the gun crazy individuals who "stormed" the West Valley City council meeting. I really don't get why you would use such an aggressive word to describe our actions. I believe that the proper term would have been, peaceably assembled. I am unsure whether you were one of the reporters that were in attendance, but I don't believe that you were, as it was a very peacable meeting. I am also unsure of how you came to the conclusion that we are the "self-appointed, well regulated militia" and I wonder how we "undercut careful law enforcement, membership in a civil society and even reason." (edited out the S at the end of undercut so it would be proper grammer) And who did you interview before you came up with this gem? "It's in the Constitution, their thinking goes. They are "peaceably going about their business while armed," standing on the watchtower, the last line of defense against government tyranny and crazed criminals. We should thank them" I never asked for thanks, only recognition that it (Open carry) is a legal activity, and thereforea citizen doing it should not be harrassed by police. "But the OpenCarry movement is a mystery to me. What kind of psychology - overcompensation, paranoia, antisocial personality - is behind that thinking?" I personally do not find myself, Mr. Deveraux, my wife, or any of the people who I associate with to be Paranoid, or anti-social. As that is I take offense at this statement. "We have inconsiderate boors walking around on the street carrying firearms openly," says Gunn. "I don't think they are truly afraid for their safety. Most of them are trying to make a statement about the 2nd Amendment." Well, I personally am afraid for my self defense, as I have been shot by someone who meant to take my life, and I shot back. At the same time, Yes, I am trying to makea statement about the 2nd ammendment. People should know that they have a right to keep and bear arms, and they should also know that it is legal here in our great state. I also take offense to the statement that we are inconsiderate boors. Of course this is not yourr statement, but you did go out of your way to put it into your article. As far as Deveraux's situation in WVC, he was drawn on by an officer, who had their finger on the trigger, which any self respecting, responsible gun owner know you only do when fully intent on firing the weapon. He was then detained for an inordinate amount of time, until they finally decided that he had done NOTHING WRONG. Civil rights violation? Yes. Did Travis Deveraux bring a lawsuit? No. But he is complaining. I ask that you please study both sides of the "argument" before forming an opinion, and then publishing it. I saw that you quoted quite a few people on the gun control side of the "argument" but only a single quote from someone on the pro gun side. And that particular quote has been in the news before, on Fox 13, KSL, Your own Salt Lake Tribune. Please give us a chance to voice our side as well. Sincerely, Jeramiah McDonald

    Sorry about the auto formatting guys, but I've tried to fix it and it wont work.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    WhiteFeather wrote:
    Where is the puke smiley? Because that is just what happened. Ms. Walsh owes me a new key board and moniter.

    Part of me wants to write some long drawn out speech, high lighting this and that but for what cause? I doubt she will read it orcare to understand it. Perhaps some here will find humoror passion in my words and than quote the article and form other opinions.

    Bah.

    When I get finishedtyping this post on my "child porn machine" I'm probably going to get into my "genicide mobile" and go toBest Buy and look at purchasing a new "Bomb threat generator" and maybe a "Porn viewer".All the while my "Killing machine" will be strapped to my "Cow holocaust". Maybe on the way home since I have anemptybelly I'll stop by a "Fat people press" and order a frozen "Baby cow nutrional suppliment"cone. I just have to remember to get extra "Treehearts" since its hard to drive stick and eat someone elsesfrozen "Breast milk" at the same time.

    When I get finishedtyping this post on my "child porn machine" I'm probably going to get into my "genicide mobile" and go toBest Buy and look at purchasing a new "Bomb threat generator" and maybe a "Porn viewer".All the while my "Killing machine" will be strapped to my "Cow holocaust". Maybe on the way home since I have anemptybelly I'll stop by a "Fat people press" and order a frozen "Baby cow nutrional suppliment"cone. I just have to remember to get extra "Treehearts" since its hard to drive stick and eat someone elsesfrozen "Breast milk" at the same time.


    ROTFLMAO. You my SIR..., Are HILARIOUS

    On a scale 1-10 you get 12 Guns.


    (Now wait a minute ....Did that comment make me even more "Gun-Nut"...)


    TJ
    I was waiting for someone to keep going...

    So when can I pick them up?

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Lol, you can pick them up whenever you want, but there is a special pickup fee, see I left them at various gun stores around the country, and they all have this weird fee to pick them up.

    It seems like they all have this fee

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    I can understand that there are those out there who do not hold my same view. I struggle with those who use free speach to burn the flag. However, I for the life of me cannot understand where having the ambition for carrying a firearm open makes one crazy. Crazy is wanting to marry a 13 year old when you are 55. Crazy is feeling that you can regulate the actions of others. Crazy is feeling that because you dont hold the same view as someone else that you should be able to call them crazy. Crazy my @$$.

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    It feels pretty personal doesn't it Bflamante?

    I guess we're all just crazy.

    I'll second that, Crazy my A$$

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    Steven Gunn, an attorney and board member of the Gun Violence Prevention Center of Utah, believes it's pure ego.
    Nice, Steven Gunn. He really needs to change his name, he is a disgrace to firearms everywhere.

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    I like when they said we are anti-social.

    I thought getting together for dinner was a social activity, but maybe I was wrong.

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    If we were anti-social we'd do everything in our power to take attention away from ourselves. That would NOT involve OC. It's quite clear she hasn't talked to anyone who does it, because she'd know how often people talk to us about it. Positive, negative and neutral comments are made to us. Anti-social is the exact opposite of what we are.

    It's a sickening article, but unfortunately to the folks at which the article is directed, the uninformed, it will look like a great article. This writer loves guns, see? The writer is all for gun rights! The writer shoots Glocks and likes to hit the target, see?! Even the gun owners think OCers are crazy!! See? We need to get this loophole closed!!!

    The no law on the books loophole!!! The loophole that was created when the right to CC was taken away and turned into a priviledge for those with time, money and approval and they accidentally didn't mention OC. They forgot to write in OC and now they've unintentionally made a HUGE loophole!!

    That's what "loophole" implies isn't it? Sort of an accidental flaw in a law that allows people to "get around it." I find it interesting that the writer gives law makers absolutely no credit.


    Just look at this "Obama guy" if you want to see what I'm talking about:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkLPkz7h1VQ

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I would think Osama bin laden would be for gun control. You can't suicide bomb somewhere if you get shot first.

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    if anyone is interested, here is the e-mail I sent in response to this article

    [line]

    Mrs. Walsh,



    Just today I read your article entitled " Why are some people so gun crazy", and I felt compelled to send you an e-mail in response.



    First of all, while I understand that this article was an opinion piece, rather than a news report, I couldn't help but notice how often you interjected key phrases into your article designed to vilify and demonize legal, law abiding gun owners. allow me to demonstrate:



    • ... Ten of them stormed the West Valley City Council meeting last week...
    • ... overcompensation, paranoia, antisocial personality...
    • ... inconsiderate boors walking around on the street carrying firearms openly...
    • ...the showdown in West Valley City...
    • ... folks move about with 'portable killing machines' strapped to their bodies?"...
    • ... modern heart of the wild, wild West...

    Since you seem to believe that Open carry is something that only "unreasonable" people would do, I would like to discuss with you for a moment, the other side of the coin.



    First, let's look at this from anrealistic point of view.

    In your article, you state that



    "the Open Carry crowd's literal interpretation of the "right to bear arms" and self-appointment as our "well-regulated militia" undercuts careful law enforcement, membership in a civil society and even reason."



    Honestly, I am at a complete loss with the rationale of this statement. Exactly how does a person openly carrying a weapon undercut anything, any more than someone who is carrying concealed? While it may seem "unreasonable" to you, it makes perfect sense to many. a criminal is a creature of opportunity. Criminals are lazy,otherwise they would be out working for their money and becoming productive members of Society.the criminalsentire lifestyle is based around the principle of making an "easy" dollar. If a criminal were to walk into an establishment where someone was openly displaying a handgun, chances are that criminal will move on to another establishment, one where his work will be easier. While many will use the old " he'll just shoot the person with the gun" line, no one has produced any documentable evidence of this myth.



    secondly, let's look at your "literal interpretation" remark.

    Do you honestly not believe that the constitution should be followed literally? If the Second amendment shouldn't be taken literally, then maybe the first through the tenth amendments shouldn't be taken literally either. You say that Open carry is "unreasonable" because it doesn't consider the feelings of the citizens. I am sure many Republicans were upset at your article entitled "Hey GOP: Got Democracy?". After doing a quick search on the Salt Lake City Tribunes Archives, it appears that you have written articles regarding the FLDS church, president Bush, sen. Obama and Clinton, and other issues that surely upset someone. If the Second amendment shouldn't be taken literally, why would you think that the first amendment should? Choosing which freedoms a person is "granted" can be a long, dark road. history books are filled with stories of people whose governments "chose" which freedoms they had, and millions died as a result.



    Next, let's take a look at your "undercutting careful Law enforcement" remark.

    No matter how careful Law enforcement is, no agency can be expected to eliminate crime. Washington D.C., New York City, and Los Angeles have some of the strictest gun control measures in the United States, and yet theystill regularly have violent crimes rates well above the national average. Meanwhile, other cities, with much more relaxed gun control measures enjoy crime rates well below the national average. what is the common denominator? When you remove firearms from the hands and holsters ( concealed or not) of law abiding citizens, the criminals job becomes much easier. While citizens who do not choose to exercise their second amendment rights may be more "socially acceptable", they are at greater risk of beingthe victim of a violent crime. In the event that someone were attacked, how would they defend themselves? would they wait for the timely arrival of a Law enforcement officer? and what if one never came? what if he came too late? I am sorry, but that is a risk that any "reasonable" person wouldn't take. reasonable persons prefer life over "social acceptance"



    Finally, lets look at the economical side of the situation.

    I live in Tennessee, a state that requires it's citizens to obtain a permit to carry a gun, openly or concealed. in order to obtain this permit, I had to , first, pay nearly one hundred dollars to attend an NRA certified handgun safety class. after successful completion of this class, I have to pay another $115 fee in order to apply for the permit. the fee includes a full background check, and having my fingerprints taken and placed on file with the State of Tennessee. Now, after all is said and done, that is nearly 215 dollars spent before buying a handgun and ammunition. While this may seem like a pocket change to you, many families in my State, and across the United States can barely afford food, much less pay over 200 dollars for a permit. Should these families no be able to protect themselves, simply because they don't make an adequate living? personally I applaud the State of Utah for recognizing that ALL citizens of the state, and not just those who can afford to, deserve the right of personal protection.



    Thank you for taking the time to read this letter, and if you would like to discuss the issues I have presented, please feel free to reply at any time.



    Sincerely,

    William Lee

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    It seems that walsh has either republished or retitled her article.

    http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_9662672

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    thx997303 wrote:
    It seems that walsh has either republished or retitled her article.
    she probably just plagerized her own "work" and turned it in as another article (without a picture) in order for the slower readers to think that there were 2 people with "opinions" like that.

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    wouldn't surprise me.

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    She's too stupid to realize open carrying is slowly making carrying firearms socially acceptable.

    Which helps with getting laws passed in our favor to reinforce the Constitution (apparently it's a bit fuzzy; fuzzy like the bear arms above my mantel).



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    I commit to open carry even more simply because this article, er, trash was printed. Keep the motivation commin' kids.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Don't you mean this trash, er article?

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