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Thread: America Freedom to Fascism

  1. #1
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    :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173

    Post this everywhere you can. The late Arron Russo's website is http://freedomtofascism.com/

    "We the people" need to take a stand before it is too late

    Edited to replace link to video with a better link.


  2. #2
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    I wonder if the reason the government is ratcheting up its unconstitutional actions is because more and more people are finding out the personal income tax and the Federal Reserveareillegal.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
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    Russo's movie is interesting, but before buying into that line of thinking about taxes, do a little reading first. Not paying taxes because there is no law is like carrying a gun without a permit because "the Second Ammendment says so". You may feel morally correct, but you are also taking an awful risk. Text below:



    Protesting the Tax Protesters


    I am not now nor have I ever been a big fan of the "tax protester" movement.

    Wikipedia has a good definition:


    "A tax protester is an individual who denies the obligation to pay a tax (for which the government has determined that person is liable) based on a belief that the government is acting outside of its legal authority when imposing such taxes."
    Tax protesters make what I believe are arcane legal arguments about why this or that tax has no legal basis. I'm not going to bother over the details of their arguments. I've heard them for over 25 years ad nauseum. Fortunately, law professor Jonathan R. Siegel has performed that disagreeable task for us.

    The courts have held that there is a legal obligation to pay taxes. What the "legal" in that term means exactly is a very interesting question which I addressed at length in a law school paper which I will publish at some point.

    Bottom line: "legal" means that if you do not comply, the government may use physical coercion against you.

    The tax protesters apparently believe that if they make their esoteric arguments to the authorities that the authorities will magically cease to enforce tax laws. It's a complete waste of time in my view. Many tens of thousands of people have spent many hundreds of thousands of dollars supporting the tax protester movement. What have they accomplished? Several of them have helped increase taxes for federal prisons.

    According to Wikipedia, several prominent tax protesters, including Irwin Schiff, have been convicted and sentenced to prison. As long ago as the early 1980’s my law professor, Henry Mark Holzer, told me that tax protesters were getting killed in the "advance sheets," the most recent decisions of the U. S. Courts of Appeal.

    Tax protesters are not exercising civil disobedience as Henry David Thoreau did. That would be an entirely different strategy. Civil disobedience involves deliberately violating an unjust law so as to arouse public sentiment against it. That is not what tax protesters are doing. Thoreau wrote in this regard:


    Cast your whole vote, not a strip of paper merely, but your whole influence. . . . If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible.
    Much tax protester time is spent praying to the Constitution. Big problem. Constitutions don't limit government power because the government has claimed the exclusive right to say what they mean.

    More importantly, the Constitution is a legal document. Law is a reflection of pre-legal values. The values that gave rise to the Constitution are in large part dead. The vast majority of the public no longer holds them. You might as well be speaking Chinese to them.

    Worse yet, a large portion of the population is on the federal dole. They'll favor the tax authorities over the most elegant legal arguments against the legality of the federal income tax. This is the tax protesters' biggest problem and yet I have never heard them address it!

    Let's assume for the sake of argument that the Supreme Court bought these tax protester arguments and held that the income tax as presently understood is unconstitutional. Congress would meet in the morning and approve a constitutional amendment retroactively overruling that decision. 38 state legislatures would meet in the afternoon and ratify the amendment. Yawn.

    Even as political strategy, tax protesting fails. It takes enormous effort just to understand their arguments and it’s virtually impossible to translate them into plain English for a mass audience. Also, by urging individuals to stand up to the system by themselves, they allow the government to pursue a divide and conquer strategy. They counter with the common sense and intuitively appealing argument that the tax protesters are just making the rest of us pay more. A much more effective argument is to argue for a general and steep decline in taxation for all of us.

    If legal arguments are a waste of time, how do we fight confiscatory taxation? By making moral, philosophical, economic, historical and practical arguments against it. And by explaining why the various programs funded by taxation are unnecessary or destructive and can be replaced by market-based solutions.

    To fight tax slavery and the horrendously destructive policies it funds, support the organizations working hard to end it: the Mises Institute, LewRockwell.com, the Future of Freedom Foundation, and the newest kid on the block Free New York. FFF has recently published a fine three-part series by Sheldon Richman exposing some of the fallacious arguments of the tax protesters.

    To my tax protesting brothers and sisters. You have been led astray. Join us. The path of lesser resistance has gotten you no where.

    January 1, 2007

    James Ostrowski is an attorney in Buffalo, New York and author of Political Class Dismissed: Essays Against Politics, Including "What’s Wrong With Buffalo." See his website.

    Copyright © 2007 LewRockwell.com


  4. #4
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    YellowHorse wrote:
    This is part 1 of 12, to continue, press the link below the videos when done.
    if you, or anyone else is interested, the entire video ( all 111 minutes of it) ais available here..

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&plindex=0

    some folks may not watch teh whole thing if they have to keep clicking on the next link, and this is definitely something that everyone needs to watch.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Text below:
    I notice he does not cite the statute, either.

    Lots of talk. Sophisticated, rational-sounding talk at that. But no citation to any statute.

    I like how he re-defined legal. Such definition would make every single search and seizure legal.

    I also like how he and otherschanged the argument. Russo and friends don't say paying taxes is notanobligation. They say paying an unapportioned personal income taxon wages has no basis in law; and there is no authority in law to enforce such tax through seizures and prison.

    With that said, yes, a person would be bumpingthe most powerful powers, inter-connected and mutually supporting powerful powers.One will wanttobevery, very careful. Beyond careful. One will wantto have many, many friends to exert counter-pressure.

    Its interesting, though. It basically means the federal government, on the most importantpoint of all--the money that fuels it all--is not acting lawfully. They're acting how they want, being careful not to antagonize people too much lest they revolt, peacefully or otherwise.

    Basically it means that most of the other issues of the day are misdirected effort. As long as the government can keep attention off the Federal Reserve and the legality of the personal income tax, their system is safe. Its the money that counts. As long as that isn't in play as an issue, as long as some other issue is being squabbled over, they're safe, and can increase their control through fraud-sold devices like the Patriot Act and RealID.

    I wonder if the author Tomahawk quoted knew all this himself, and was just wanting to really illustrate the deep personal danger in bucking the system.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Russo's movie is interesting, but before buying into that line of thinking about taxes, do a little reading first. Not paying taxes because there is no law is like carrying a gun without a permit because "the Second Ammendment says so". You may feel morally correct, but you are also taking an awful risk. Text below:
    Tomahawk, I agree with you 100%

    The movie is what it is, and it is not meant to advise everyone to stop paying their taxes, just like I wouldn't advise everyone to start carrying their guns around because it is a constitutional right, butas many people as possible needs to see this movie.

    It is supposed to open your eyes to what the government is doing, i.e. we are becoming very apathetic and need to get involved in our country. The government is not meant to rule us, we need to govern the government.

    "A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves." (Don't remember who's quote that is at this moment).

    If we start showing that it's not just the second admendment they are trying to do away with, but many of them, maybe more people will start "waking up."

    Thanks unreconstructed1, that is a much better link. I'm going to replace mine with yours.


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